If Propecia gets pulled off market, I'll pull a Virginia Beach

Solxama

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This is quite a dumb take. There's a lot of medications that aren't good that need to be removed from the market and im not referring to Finasteride. You clearly don't have enough knowledge on the topic if you're making such a statement.

Also, no most people who get sides from Finasteride are the ones who listen to dumb asses like you who like to make it seem like sides are extremely rare and just a Nocebo effect.

Once again, I wouldn't say Finasteride should be banned, but it should not be FDA approved for Hairloss having such potential side effects in so many people.
It's not dumb if you believe in freedom of choice. Free will, it should be nobodies business what a grown adult wants to put in their body. My body my choice as they say. If somebody is not aware of the sides of medicine it's only their fault.

I'm all for awareness, but not for authoritarian control methods people like you propose. Thereby ruining the lives of desperate young balding people.
 

user394587

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Nothing you posted here indicates persistent side effects with an incidence greater than 0.8%. What are these studies suggesting a 44% incidence of sexual side effects? That's obscene. Can you post the studies here?

I seriously hope you're not referring to this study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22939118/. This study samples people who were already experiencing persistent side effects from finasteride "In 2010-2011, former users of finasteride (n = 61) with persistent sexual side effects for ≥ 3 months were administered standardized interviews that gathered demographic information, medical and psychiatric histories, and information on medication use, sexual function, and alcohol consumption."

This study doesn't try to establish an incidence of persistent side effects or side effects in general. It's looking at the distribution of side effects for people who are already complaining of persistent side effects. The other studies conducted by Irwig and the PFS foundation are the only studies out there that indicate such extreme numbers, and they all sample people who were already complaining of persistent side effects. These studies do not contain any relevant information about the incidence of side effects or persistent side effects.

Do you even know how to interpret statistical information?
 
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jamesbooker1975

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Without Propecia I'll go bald. Do these people give a fvck? No. Forcing another person to go bald like this "patient advocacy group" wants to do is violence towards that person (Especially if that person's erection, as in my case, is excellent.):




"A patient advocacy group has filed a lawsuit seeking to pull Merck & Co's hair loss drug Propecia and its generic versions from the market, saying federal regulators had failed to act on evidence that it causes depression, erectile dysfunction and, in some cases, suicide."

From my cold dead hands
It is a none sense that Accutane have so many regulations while Propecia is give it as a candy, while, the suicide tendence on Accutane is caused exactly by the same thing that Propecia , inhibition of 5-alpha-reductase and neurosteroids ( like allopregnolone ) .
You are not inhibiting only DHT , you are inhibiting an enzyme that is part of many, many other NATURAL reactions in your body.
Merck SHOULD paid for false advertise as they did with VIOXX.
You should know what actually this drug do, if after that you want to use it, it is up to you. But stop the kind of crap propaganda , like Kevin man, that propecia is safe.
 

Solxama

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Can any anti Finasteride person explain why do you want to control everything? Are concepts like personal responsibility alien to you? Why do you want to control/ban something just because you are personally against it? Is it some kind of moral crusade, virtue signalling or ego trip thing?

Why don't you simply avoid a drug you don't like and let others live their lives. What's this obsession with deciding for others what's good for them.

I thought freedom of choice is a value most people support. Maybe I was wrong. Sad.
 

Solxama

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Just as expected, no answers just silly reactions.

God, some of you anti Finasteride people are like overgrown kids, crying and stomping their feet that some people have different priorities and either don't get sides, or simply don't care. Funny crowd you are lol.

Just leave other people alone. I hope your little crusade to restrict other people's freedoms ends in failure.
 

clarence-forgotpassword

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Just as expected, no answers just silly reactions.

God, some of you anti Finasteride people are like overgrown kids, crying and stomping their feet that some people have different priorities and either don't get sides, or simply don't care. Funny crowd you are lol.

Just leave other people alone. I hope your little crusade to restrict other people's freedoms ends in failure.

I hope it ends in tragedy.
 

clarence-forgotpassword

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Listen here you lil b**ch, watch your mouth. All your keyboard warrior bitching and fake tough guy don't mean sh*t, b**ch. Your lil tantrum just sounds like a lil kid crying.

I highly doubt they will succeed in getting Finasteride banned, and it's not because I don't believe what their saying, I actually do. It's because Big Pharma has too much money not to buy a win in the case or another settlement.

Also, you're literally going to be spoiled for choice if and when Finasteride does hypothetically get banned. If Finasteride gets banned it will take a few years for that to happen.

There are companies outside of the USA that manufacture Finasteride and it isn't easy to get an international ban on all countries manufacturing it.

Coming back to the point about being you being spoiled for choice soon, I meant there will be Kintor Pharmaceuticals Pyrilutamide and Breezula to choose from which will probably do what Finasteride wishes it could without the side effects potentially.

All is not lost, people are just going to be upgraded, it will simply be a transition from the old and bad to the new and good.
getwhattheydeserve.gif


They drew first blood.
 

jamesbooker1975

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Can any anti Finasteride person explain why do you want to control everything? Are concepts like personal responsibility alien to you? Why do you want to control/ban something just because you are personally against it? Is it some kind of moral crusade, virtue signalling or ego trip thing?

Why don't you simply avoid a drug you don't like and let others live their lives. What's this obsession with deciding for others what's good for them.

I thought freedom of choice is a value most people support. Maybe I was wrong. Sad.
We don't want to control it , we just want people know EXACTLY how it work . so simple like that , like a cigarrete or ok. For me, everything should be legal, it is up to you. But no using false propaganda like Merk or ....Kevin Man, lol .
 

user394587

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We don't want to control it , we just want people know EXACTLY how it work . so simple like that , like a cigarrete or ok. For me, everything should be legal, it is up to you. But no using false propaganda like Merk or ....Kevin Man, lol .
Does this include propaganda and misinformation from the other point of view, or just information that fits an anti-finasteride narrative? Because the studies conducted by Irwig et al. are garbage from a statistical point of view when it comes to establishing side effect profiles and risk factors.
 

Micky_007

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Nothing you posted here indicates persistent side effects with an incidence greater than 0.8%. What are these studies suggesting a 44% incidence of sexual side effects? That's obscene. Can you post the studies here?

I seriously hope you're not referring to this study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22939118/. This study samples people who were already experiencing persistent side effects from finasteride "In 2010-2011, former users of finasteride (n = 61) with persistent sexual side effects for ≥ 3 months were administered standardized interviews that gathered demographic information, medical and psychiatric histories, and information on medication use, sexual function, and alcohol consumption."

This study doesn't try to establish an incidence of persistent side effects or side effects in general. It's looking at the distribution of side effects for people who are already complaining of persistent side effects. The other studies conducted by Irwig and the PFS foundation are the only studies out there that indicate such extreme numbers, and they all sample people who were already complaining of persistent side effects. These studies do not contain any relevant information about the incidence of side effects or persistent side effects.

Do you even know how to interpret statistical information?

Yes i do know how to interpret statistical information and no those numbers are not obscene. 0.8% is ridiculous though.

I will post when I have time, but if I'm not mistaken having not read those studies in a while, they did relate to post side effects after stopping.
 
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user394587

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Yes i do know how to interpret statiscal information and no those numbers are not obscene. 0.8% is ridiculous though.

I will post when I have time, but if I'm not mistaken having not read those studies in a while, they did relate to post side effects after stopping.
The studies you posted examine the side effect profile of people who already reported persistent side effects. They aren't representative of the population of people taking finasteride. Obviously if you take a sample of people who all reported persistent side effects from finasteride, you're going to find a high incidence of side effects in multiple categories within that group of people. That's not how you properly conduct statistics, it's the epitome of extreme selection bias.

In order to actually assess side effects and persistent side effects properly you would need a study like this:

Find 1000 people who meet the inclusion/exclusion criteria (IE, participants must not have prior 5ARI usage), assign 500 people randomly to Group 1 and Group 2.

Double blind, so both the participants and experimenters are unaware of who is receiving finasteride versus the placebo.

Group 1: Treatment group
Group 2: Control/Placebo group

Examine the incidence of side effects after a year of usage. Of the people who had side effects, examine the number of people who had side effects persist 5-6 months after discontinuation of the drug. Test for statistical significance between Group 1 and Group 2. Make your conclusions.

Here's an example of what you don't do:

Obtain ~60 people from an online forum all of which are complaining of persistent side effects from finasteride. Measure the incidence of side effects in that group. Wow, look, a 64% rate of persistent moderate to severe depression. Continue to conclude that finasteride results in a 64% chance of persistent moderate to severe depression after cessation of the drug (the researchers don't even conclude this, but this is how these studies are misinterpreted).

These "studies" are literally measuring the incidence of side effects for people who already reported having side effects. Of course it's going to be extremely high, what else would you expect? All this tells you is what sort of persistent side effects people experience if they experience them. They don't tell you what the likelihood of experiencing persistent side effects is and shouldn't be interpreted that way.
 
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Micky_007

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The studies you posted examine the side effect profile of people who already reported persistent side effects. They aren't representative of the population of people taking finasteride. Obviously if you take a sample of people who all reported persistent side effects from finasteride, you're going to find a high incidence of side effects in multiple categories within that group of people. That's not how you properly conduct statistics, it's the epitome of extreme selection bias.

In order to actually assess side effects and persistent side effects properly you would need a study like this:

Find 1000 people who meet the inclusion/exclusion criteria (IE, participants must not have prior 5ARI usage), assign 500 people randomly to Group 1 and Group 2.

Double blind, so both the participants and experimenters are unaware of who is receiving finasteride versus the placebo.

Group 1: Treatment group
Group 2: Control/Placebo group

Examine the incidence of side effects after a year of usage. Of the people who had side effects, examine the number of people who had side effects persist 5-6 months after discontinuation of the drug. Test for statistical significance between Group 1 and Group 2. Make your conclusions.

Here's an example of what you don't do:

Obtain ~60 people from an online forum all of which are complaining of persistent side effects from finasteride. Measure the incidence of side effects in that group. Wow, look, a 64% rate of persistent moderate to severe depression. Continue to conclude that finasteride results in a 64% chance of persistent moderate to severe depression after cessation of the drug (the researches don't even conclude this, but this is how these studies are misinterpreted).

These "studies" are literally measuring the incidence of side effects for people who already reported having side effects. Of course it's going to be extremely high, what else would you expect? All this tells you is what sort of persistent side effects people experience if they experience them. They don't tell you what the likelihood of experiencing persistent side effects is and shouldn't be interpreted that way.

Not actually. Pro-Finasteride people love to talk about how side effects almost always stop after stopping Finasteride.

These studies and figures I presented are still highly relevant in proving otherwise.
 
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WaccWaccWacc

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LOL. Exactly the response you'd expect from someone who has tried to make excuses and failed.
You’re still writing paragraphs and essays on a thread about finasteride. Exactly the type of behavior for someone who lost all hope as finasteride didn’t work for them.
 

jamesbooker1975

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Does this include propaganda and misinformation from the other point of view, or just information that fits an anti-finasteride narrative? Because the studies conducted by Irwig et al. are garbage from a statistical point of view when it comes to establishing side effect profiles and risk factors.
Tell us, what happen with Progesterone ( the natural finasteride of our body that control aromatase and 5-alpha reductase ) when you inhibit 5-alpha reductase ? Tell us what happen with estrogen when DHT is not present ? Tell us, in how many reaction 5-alpha reductase is part of it ? Tell us , how many hormones are inhibiting by finasteride consuption ?
see, you are taking it and you don't know any of that answers. Not your fault, it is something MERCK should told us . If you want to know how meck works, read about the VIOXX scandal, that was release almost at the same time than propecia.
Why do you thing GSK never release Dutasteride to treat Androgenetic Alopecia even when the phase 2 ( and the phase 3 made in Argentina and Korea ) showed that the results where far superior than finasteride ? Do you things that they are stupid ?
 

user394587

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Not actually. Pro-Finasteride people love to talk about how side effects almost always stop after stopping Finasteride.

These studies and figures I presented are still highly relevant in proving otherwise.
They aren't highly relevant because the studies fail to prove what the incidence of persistent side effects are. Did you even bother to read what I wrote?
 

jamesbooker1975

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And I am not anti finasteride, finasteride should be study for topical use at low dose and may be with an special vehicle, they should did back in the 90s , but, was much more cheaper simple release as a pill and they even had already the drug for HBP. That is how Mercks works.
With oral finasteride you are inhibiting more your systemic DHT than your local scalp DHT ( what really matter ) simple incredible. Mercks and their big propaganda told us in the 90s that what really matter was systemic DHT ! lol
 
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user394587

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Tell us, what happen with Progesterone ( the natural finasteride of our body that control aromatase and 5-alpha reductase ) when you inhibit 5-alpha reductase ? Tell us what happen with estrogen when DHT is not present ? Tell us, in how many reaction 5-alpha reductase is part of it ? Tell us , how many hormones are inhibiting by finasteride consuption ?
see, you are taking it and you don't know any of that answers. Not your fault, it is something MERCK should told us . If you want to know how meck works, read about the VIOXX scandal, that was release almost at the same time than propecia.
Why do you thing GSK never release Dutasteride to treat Androgenetic Alopecia even when the phase 2 ( and the phase 3 made in Argentina and Korea ) showed that the results where far superior than finasteride ? Do you things that they are stupid ?
You're implying I didn't know this information before taking finasteride. That's not the case. I researched the medication for months before taking it, had several comprehensive bloodwork panels done prior to taking it, and continue to get bloodwork done every six months.

My biggest concern with the medication wasn't even the reduction in DHT, but the reduction in neurosteroids such as allopregnanolone. Regardless, I reviewed as many long term studies as possible, and after consulting with an endocrinologist took the risk. I don't have any noticeable side effects, and the majority of the people taking it don't experience any.
 
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