I think I've just cured it.

[Jacob]

You sure are posting IH's site a lot....Hmmmmmm

Mercola is basically where all this started...you won't see that you-know-where though :whistle:

10 years ago it started(he wrote others on this) http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2000/10/22/baldness-insulin.aspx

 

[Hoppi]

male pattern baldness and SHBG/insulin resistance is just a correlation, sadly there isn't many (if any) cases of guys getting back their hair by controlling it

Has anyone ever looked at their insulin sensitivity?

And I am not totally opposed to the idea of a gene being activated, it's just this seems to make more sense. Besides, lowering your free T levels can hardly be perceived as a bad thing, and that is what this does.

As I say if your follicles are simply too sensitive, you insulin sensitivity is too low or there is some kind of now "activated" gene, then this method would only help, it would not make the whole problem go away.

Oh, here's an example, unless you can see anything totally wacky and 5ar reducing in his regimen: http://www.immortalhair.org/photos.htm


It will need more trials and tests, I know that is the case. But the impact of this stuff on male pattern baldness does seem to be scientifically recognized.

 

[moxsom]

"Androgenic alopecia has been shown to correlate with metabolic syndrome. Medically increasing androgen levels does not worsen this condition, demonstrating that androgens do not cause metabolic syndrome. Instead, high insulin levels (and possibly chronic inflammation[26]) seem the likely link in the demonstrated correlation between baldness and metabolic syndrome. This reinforces the notion that behaviors which help to keep insulin levels low and reduce chronic inflammation might also help to preserve hair."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldness_t ... _lifestyle


Wikipedia I know, but I'm sure we could find far more scientifically reliable sources that state the same thing

I just showed you a REAL peer reviewed article that said the opposite, why do you neglect it?

And yes, I have checked my insulin sensitivity, It's normal.

 

[Hoppi]

Because the link was broken lol

I'll try it again

 

[Nashville Hairline]

Mercola is a quack who trades on the fears of his hypochondriac readership but you can't deny the guy who runs the ImmortalHair site's regime has worked for him.

I take enough of his recommended supplements myself. Sadly its just slowed it down at best though.

 

[moxsom]

Try this one Hoppi

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...med_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=5

Androgenic alopecia and insulin resistance: are they really related?

Clin Exp Dermatol. 2009 Aug;34(6):694-7

Nabaie L, Kavand S, Robati RM, Sarrafi-Rad N, Kavand S, Shahgholi L, Meshkat-Razavi G.


BACKGROUND: Androgenic alopecia is known to be androgen-dependent. Insulin is found in hair follicles and may play a role in the regulation of androgen metabolism and the hair-growth cycle. OBJECTIVES: To compare the insulin resistance between people with androgenic alopecia and a control group. METHODS: A case-control study was conducted with 97 cases in the patient and 87 in the control group. Serum fasting insulin level, fasting blood glucose, serum total cholesterol, triglyceride and high-density lipoprotein (HDL) were all measured in both groups. RESULTS: There was no difference in serum fasting insulin level, fasting blood glucose, serum total cholesterol, triglyceride, HDL and insulin resistance between the two groups (P > 0.05). CONCLUSION: Despite previous reports suggesting a link, our study found no significant relationship between insulin resistance and androgenic alopecia. Further studies are warranted.

 

[Hoppi]

If anyone can show me a credible, reproducible study which says "pummeling your DHT-sensitive hair follicles with testosterone has no impact on male pattern baldness" then I'm wrong.

 

[Jacob]

Mercola is a quack who trades on the fears of his hypochondriac readership but you can't deny the guy who runs the ImmortalHair site's regime has worked for him.

I take enough of his recommended supplements myself. Sadly its just slowed it down at best though.

Then why does IH quote him so much? :woot: Actually he used to ridicule the Doctor himself..and those of us who posted things by him. Now he does it himself.

 

[Jacob]

You sure are posting IH's site a lot....Hmmmmmm

Mercola is basically where all this started...you won't see that you-know-where though :whistle:

10 years ago it started(he wrote others on this) http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2000/10/22/baldness-insulin.aspx

Bump for Hoppi

 

[Nashville Hairline]

Has anyone ever looked at their insulin sensitivity?

And I am not totally opposed to the idea of a gene being activated, it's just this seems to make more sense. Besides, lowering your free T levels can hardly be perceived as a bad thing, and that is what this does.

As I say if your follicles are simply too sensitive, you insulin sensitivity is too low or there is some kind of now "activated" gene, then this method would only help, it would not make the whole problem go away.

Oh, here's an example, unless you can see anything totally wacky and 5ar reducing in his regimen: http://www.immortalhair.org/photos.htm


It will need more trials and tests, I know that is the case. But the impact of this stuff on male pattern baldness does seem to be scientifically recognized.

Like I say its worked for him and more power to him - I'm just not seeing many getting success besides him.

I always go back to the hair transplant guys - you could have one tomorrow and have a new hairline and it wouldn't matter what diet you took it would stay there. So it always goes back to the actual follicles for me - the ones on the top of our heads are just genetically predisposed to fall out. Best we can do is inhibit teh very important enzyme called 5-ar that is involved in this process (and take the risks throughout our bodies involved in this) or get a hair transplant (which carries the risks all surgeries do).

 

[Nashville Hairline]

Mercola is a quack who trades on the fears of his hypochondriac readership but you can't deny the guy who runs the ImmortalHair site's regime has worked for him.

I take enough of his recommended supplements myself. Sadly its just slowed it down at best though.

Then why does IH quote him so much? :woot: Actually he used to ridicule the Doctor himself..and those of us who posted things by him. Now he does it himself.

Ha, yeah the stuff about flouridation and mercury in the fillings of your teeth...I just skim over that stuff :dunno:

He (IH, not Mercola!) appears to have grown back hair without the use of finasteride, so what he says is still of interest to me.

 

[Hoppi]

Try this one Hoppi

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...med_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=5

Androgenic alopecia and insulin resistance: are they really related?

Clin Exp Dermatol. 2009 Aug;34(6):694-7

Nabaie L, Kavand S, Robati RM, Sarrafi-Rad N, Kavand S, Shahgholi L, Meshkat-Razavi G.


BACKGROUND: Androgenic alopecia is known to be androgen-dependent. Insulin is found in hair follicles and may play a role in the regulation of androgen metabolism and the hair-growth cycle. OBJECTIVES: To compare the insulin resistance between people with androgenic alopecia and a control group. METHODS: A case-control study was conducted with 97 cases in the patient and 87 in the control group. Serum fasting insulin level, fasting blood glucose, serum total cholesterol, triglyceride and high-density lipoprotein (HDL) were all measured in both groups. RESULTS: There was no difference in serum fasting insulin level, fasting blood glucose, serum total cholesterol, triglyceride, HDL and insulin resistance between the two groups (P > 0.05). CONCLUSION: Despite previous reports suggesting a link, our study found no significant relationship between insulin resistance and androgenic alopecia. Further studies are warranted.

hmm fair do's, fair do's

At least that's a credible scientific comeback and not just blind bashing of my theory!! lol So it's great to hear and good to read!

Of course I do HOPE my theory is true, not just because I would be proud of it but also because it means a better future for many people including me that are struggling with male pattern baldness.

Ok, now, the study. It's a shame, but yes that does partly suggest the link at least isn't as strong I severely hope it is incorrect, but I've based everything I've said so far on science, I'm not going to stop now!

It has to be said though... what if the 87 were just not as genetically susceptible?

And besides I did always say that the insulin resistance part of this theory was always going to be the weakest

I think it is safe to say that if you did have even slightly reduced insulin sensitivity, this would probably result in higher T levels.

It's a shame about that study though, as like I say the link was potentially exciting

 

[Jacob]

[quote="Nashville Hairline":3il0lsmg]Mercola is a quack who trades on the fears of his hypochondriac readership but you can't deny the guy who runs the ImmortalHair site's regime has worked for him.

I take enough of his recommended supplements myself. Sadly its just slowed it down at best though.

Then why does IH quote him so much? :woot: Actually he used to ridicule the Doctor himself..and those of us who posted things by him. Now he does it himself.

Ha, yeah the stuff about flouridation and mercury in the fillings of your teeth...I just skim over that stuff :dunno:

He (IH, not Mercola!) appears to have grown back hair without the use of finasteride, so what he says is still of interest to me.[/quote:3il0lsmg]

"Appears"? Sorry..couldn't resist.

If he'd also use topicals instead of being stubborn about needing to stick with a "top 6" or whatever...he'd be surprised what he could grow.

 

[Hoppi]

"Androgenic alopecia has been shown to correlate with metabolic syndrome. Medically increasing androgen levels does not worsen this condition, demonstrating that androgens do not cause metabolic syndrome. Instead, high insulin levels (and possibly chronic inflammation[26]) seem the likely link in the demonstrated correlation between baldness and metabolic syndrome. This reinforces the notion that behaviors which help to keep insulin levels low and reduce chronic inflammation might also help to preserve hair."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldness_t ... _lifestyle


Wikipedia I know, but I'm sure we could find far more scientifically reliable sources that state the same thing

I just showed you a REAL peer reviewed article that said the opposite, why do you neglect it?

Oh, incidentally that article isn't saying the opposite at all - insulin sensitivity and insulin levels are entirely different things. As is your level of IGF-1.

Ha, yeah the stuff about flouridation and mercury in the fillings of your teeth...I just skim over that stuff :dunno:

He (IH, not Mercola!) appears to have grown back hair without the use of finasteride, so what he says is still of interest to me.

I know, that's what I thought! And what he talks about is insulin, insulin, insulin!

You see the reason for my fascination and perseverance? hehe

 

[moxsom]

Oh, incidentally that article isn't saying the opposite at all - insulin sensitivity and insulin levels are entirely different things. As is your level of IGF-1.

insulin sensitivity = insulin resistance, which the article is about.

If anyone can show me a credible, reproducible study which says "pummeling your DHT-sensitive hair follicles with testosterone has no impact on male pattern baldness" then I'm wrong.

What about psuedohermaphrodites who have high levels of testosterone but no 5 alpha reductase type II, and do not go bald?


Androgens and male physiology the syndrome of 5alpha-reductase-2 deficiency.


Mol Cell Endocrinol. 2002 Dec 30;198(1-2):51-9.

Imperato-McGinley J, Zhu YS.

Dihydrotestosterone (DHT), a potent androgen, is converted from testosterone by 5alpha-reductase isozymes. There are two 5alpha-reductase isozymes, type 1 and type 2 in humans and animals. These two isozymes have differential biochemical and molecular features. Mutations in type 2 isozyme cause male pseudohermaphroditism, and many mutations have been reported from various ethnic groups. The affected 46XY individuals have high normal to elevated plasma testosterone levels with decreased DHT levels and elevated testosterone/DHT ratios. They have ambiguous external genitalia at birth so that they are believed to be girls and are often raised as such. However, Wolffian differentiation occurs normally and they have epididymides, vas deferens and seminal vesicles. Virilization occurs at puberty frequently with a gender role change. The prostate in adulthood is small and rudimentary, and facial and body hair is absent or decreased. Balding has not been reported. Spermatogenesis is normal if the testes are descended. The clinical, biochemical and molecular genetic analyses of 5alpha-reductase-2 deficiency highlight the significance of DHT in male sexual differentiation and male pathophysiology. Copyright 2002 Published by Elsevier Science Ireland Ltd.

 

[Hoppi]

lol come on moxsom work with me here of COURSE i understand that 5ar causes baldness! But I doubt flooding your follicles with testosterone is going to help them

and yes sorry I didn't really mean to switch terms like that, but the point I was making is that insulin resistance/sensitivity is different to insulin and IGF-1 levels. Someone can have high insulin and perfectly normal resistance levels. That block of text from Wikipedia is not referring to resistance at all, but merely to insulin levels.

Maybe there are just many, many reasons for male pattern baldness. It does seem though that the insulin/IGF-1 and T link is fairly strong, and so improving your diet to keep your insulin nice and low will at the very least make life considerably easier for your hair follicles.

On top of that, flax seeds are believed to both regulate sex hormone levels AND reduce insulin resistance, hence their past success in treating male pattern baldness.

I have reason to believe I made my insulin levels too high by eating FAR too much sugar and carbohydrate, for example. And dairy. This theory fits at least ME like a glove. You're saying that if I decrease my free testosterone levels, through whatever actions, that will have no impact on my hair loss at all?

Could you attempt to prove THAT?

 

[moxsom]

This theory fits at least ME like a glove. You're saying that if I decrease my free testosterone levels, that will have no impact on my hair loss at all?

Could you attempt to prove THAT?

Sure it might, I never said anything different. Don't you find it interesting that pseudohermaphrodites have higher levels of T but don't go bald.

Instead of inhibiting your testosterone don't you think it would be easiest to inhibit your DHT, which has a 5 times higher affinity for binding to the AR in your scalp?

Btw, you won't have high insulin levels if you have no insulin resistance. Your body will be able to clear out the sugar loads. I agree that a high sugar diet isn't good for you, but it's relation to hairloss is at best very weak.

 

[Jacob]

Flax Seed Oil Actually Increases Prostate Cancer

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2004/07/21/flax-seed-oil.aspx

 

[Hoppi]

This is interesting isn't it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11030300

 

[Jacob]

Yes..because it's basically the same thing in the Mercola's article that for some odd reason you're ignoring. Is it because it's over 10 years old?

Stay away from flax seed btw :laugh: