How To Counter High Test And Estrogen?

[Maave]

Do you think its dose dependant? Personally I think at this point its almost certain these changes lead to the depression and other sides some men get.
On the other hand right now its take propecia or go bald. I thought about taking .125mg could that help male pattern baldness a little but only reduce these different steroids a lot less than the 5mg they gave here?
Its a difficult choice, but honestly who wants to go bald? There is no finasteride alternative

They're all made with the 5ar enzyme so less finasteride should mean better neurosteroid levels. .125mg might be good (since we've seen that fina reaches max DHT inhibition by .25mg). I wonder how many people can maintain using just .125 though?

There ARE alternatives but they're not FDA approved, so most doctors won't prescribe them. There are the nonsteroidal anti-androgens (NSAA) like flutamide, bicalutamide, enzalutamide, RU-58841 etc and those can all work topically. CB-03-01 aka Breezula which is a different class topical anti-androgen. Topical spironolactone (spironolactone smells bad though). I think topical is the way most guys should go to reduce side effects.

Oral anti-androgens are also possible but again you'll have to deal with side effects. I think spironolactone and cypro are not worth it for most guys - fairly high chance of sides. The NSAAs only block at the receptors, they don't block T production or neurosteroids, so they have few side effects except for gyno, but that chance of gyno is high.

Long story but I'm on oral bicalutamide and raloxifene (a SERM that blocks estrogen activity in breast tissue, mitigating gyno). 2 months in and it's visibly working. I'll make a post about it eventually. I think guys could use a much much lower dose NSAA topical, and maybe low dose raloxifene if gyno is still an issue with topical. That should have very few side effects.

 

[Arrade]

They're all made with the 5ar enzyme so less finasteride should mean better neurosteroid levels. .125mg might be good (since we've seen that fina reaches max DHT inhibition by .25mg). I wonder how many people can maintain using just .125 though?

There ARE alternatives but they're not FDA approved, so most doctors won't prescribe them. There are the nonsteroidal anti-androgens (NSAA) like flutamide, bicalutamide, enzalutamide, RU-58841 etc and those can all work topically. CB-03-01 aka Breezula which is a different class topical anti-androgen. Topical spironolactone (spironolactone smells bad though). I think topical is the way most guys should go to reduce side effects.

Oral anti-androgens are also possible but again you'll have to deal with side effects. I think spironolactone and cypro are not worth it for most guys - fairly high chance of sides. The NSAAs only block at the receptors, they don't block T production or neurosteroids, so they have few side effects except for gyno, but that chance of gyno is high.

Long story but I'm on oral bicalutamide and raloxifene (a SERM that blocks estrogen activity in breast tissue, mitigating gyno). 2 months in and it's visibly working. I'll make a post about it eventually. I think guys could use a much much lower dose NSAA topical, and maybe low dose raloxifene if gyno is still an issue with topical. That should have very few side effects.

Are you a WOH -man

 

[Maave]

Are you a WOH -man

No. I'm nonbinary transgender.

 

[abcdefg]

They're all made with the 5ar enzyme so less finasteride should mean better neurosteroid levels. .125mg might be good (since we've seen that fina reaches max DHT inhibition by .25mg). I wonder how many people can maintain using just .125 though?

There ARE alternatives but they're not FDA approved, so most doctors won't prescribe them. There are the nonsteroidal anti-androgens (NSAA) like flutamide, bicalutamide, enzalutamide, RU-58841 etc and those can all work topically. CB-03-01 aka Breezula which is a different class topical anti-androgen. Topical spironolactone (spironolactone smells bad though). I think topical is the way most guys should go to reduce side effects.

Oral anti-androgens are also possible but again you'll have to deal with side effects. I think spironolactone and cypro are not worth it for most guys - fairly high chance of sides. The NSAAs only block at the receptors, they don't block T production or neurosteroids, so they have few side effects except for gyno, but that chance of gyno is high.

Long story but I'm on oral bicalutamide and raloxifene (a SERM that blocks estrogen activity in breast tissue, mitigating gyno). 2 months in and it's visibly working. I'll make a post about it eventually. I think guys could use a much much lower dose NSAA topical, and maybe low dose raloxifene if gyno is still an issue with topical. That should have very few side effects.

The real struggle is I agree with you completely, but the FDA never approved those. No one recommends using RU or any of those other topicals over the FDA approved propecia even if propecia does inhibit neurosteroids. The biggest issue is we dont have any reliable suppliers of those and they cost a lot because they are sold in such low volume. A chicken and egg thing. Propecia is so much more commonly used and so much cheaper. If CB or RU were on the shelf next to minoxidil and proven safe I dont think any man in his right mind is still trying propecia. I think RU still has some safety issues where you know for a fact it goes systemic as all topicals do. Nothing except hair follicles have AR receptors? I dont think so, and RU could shut down any of them causing any number of problems. Hell the heart might have AR sensitive tissues. Who knows.
Your going to say those topicals some of which are for prostate cancer are safer than taking finasteride? IDK other than the neurosteroid thing I think finasteride is pretty safe.
CB is the only one I think might end up being very safe, but again who supplies it? Random guys in china? At least propecia is legit and 100 percent what you think it is.

 

[tysono]

Disclaimer: I have not tried any of this crap, I'm just an internet scientist and I've avoided 5ar-inhibitors because I like my neurosteroids

Summary from wikipedia:


Plain GABA supplements do not readily cross the blood-brain barrier but there are a few like phenibut or picamilon which do. This can cause dependency, tolerance, and withdrawl so be careful.

Also check out simple supplements that are the precusors to GABA like zinc and b6. There's a good amount of discussion of GABA on nootropics boards. Check out this reddit thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/5n6mbb/best_nutrients_to_increase_gaba_production/

There's also this guy who had similar issues with low GABA (not from finasteride) and supplemented pregnenolone to help his body produce allopregnanolone. The downside is that this probably won't work while you're on finasteride. It might help PFS guys though

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/78ru5e/comment/dowhxe5

Thank you all for the replies! My brain fog seems to make me have to re read over everything 3-4 times now to kind of grasp what’s being said, however would a wuality multivitamin with high zinc and b6 suffice?

 

[Arrade]

Thank you all for the replies! My brain fog seems to make me have to re read over everything 3-4 times now to kind of grasp what’s being said, however would a wuality multivitamin with high zinc and b6 suffice?

I doubt that is near strong enough.
Besides brain fog high estrogen causes cardiovascular disease and other BS, it only gets worse with time

 

[Maave]

I kinda doubt the effects of just b6 and zinc as well. I think pregnenolone has half a chance of working though.

Thank you all for the replies! My brain fog seems to make me have to re read over everything 3-4 times now to kind of grasp what’s being said, however would a wuality multivitamin with high zinc and b6 suffice?

Any multivitamin will have enough zinc. Don't take more than 25mg per day. B6 from a multivitamin is probably also safest as well, those are around 2mg. The nootropics board mentions that 25mg-50mg b6 can cause issues and most b complex vitamins have more than that.

 

[tysono]

I doubt that is near strong enough.
Besides brain fog high estrogen causes cardiovascular disease and other BS, it only gets worse with time

Is there anything else I can do?

 

[Arrade]

@tysono
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/estroban-dietary-supplement-with-vitamins-k2-a-d-e.3083/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/tocovit-liquid-vitamin-e-from-wheat-germ-oil.10929/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/kuinone-liquid-high-dose-vitamin-k2-mk-4-supplement.9169/

Those are 3 supplements, one is a mix of vitamins, one is really nice vit E, one is nice vit K. All lower estrogen though I guess the estroban is the one you want to try.
Weightraining works.
Smart use of exemestane may be your best bet if estroban doesnt work

 

[Arrade]

Is there anything else I can do?

High estrogen can also make you apathetic and not get anything done. You're really playing with fire since high estrogen causes issues like prostate cancer and really who knows what else.
I would start with the boron and estroban. You need to be on top of this if you're gonna use duta

 

[Manochoice]

High estrogen can also make you apathetic and not get anything done. You're really playing with fire since high estrogen causes issues like prostate cancer and really who knows what else.
I would start with the boron and estroban. You need to be on top of this if you're gonna use duta

Is Duta putting users at more risk of elevated estrogen than Fina?

 

[Arrade]

Is Duta putting users at more risk of elevated estrogen than Fina?

From what I understand, by removing more 5 ar enzye there is more testoterone available to convert into estrogen.
On top of increasing estrogen precursor, DHT and Estrogen are yin-yang so even lower DHT will allow estrogen to be even more active in the system.

Yes, dutasteride should increase estrogen sides more than finasteride

 

[SuperDPAsteve]

As others have said, aromatase inhibitors are prolly gonna be your best bet, but if you’d rather try to ride the bull before shooting it in the face, try some lifestyle changes:

Lift weights. No such thing as “high enough” test. Eat a lean diet, meaning lean meats, the redder the better. Shy away from sugary foots, foods with simple redundant carbs and fatty junk. These will make you fat and fat increases estrogen. Which leads me to another point: lose weight. If you’re above 20% bodyfat, you have estrogen to lose.


If psychologists are to be believed, there are behavioral changes you can make to shift your hormonal balance. Manspread. Hit on chicks. Speak slowly and with a deeper voice. Smile less and be more direct with people. Stand with your chest out. Train a dog. Personally I think acting like a man is the result of actually being more of one, not the other way around though.

Supplement-wise there’s all kinds of garbage the thot at GNC will try to sell you. Ignore most of it imo. Saint John’s Wort will decrease the effectiveness of Dutasteride which can be good for your hormones and bad for your hair. ZMAs are a very weak natural aromatase inhibitor that will give you diarrhea if your diet is already healthy. Creatine will boost your DHT, and since dutasteride is blocking your 5AR enzymes, that means higher T.

It’s all about the ratio, brother. Aside from mechanical risks like cancer and gyno, most of the undesirable high E2 symptoms can be overshadowed with more free T.

And if all else fails, you can always get your full set of hair back and become a trap. You might be able to pull it off (not srs)

Good luck bro we’re rooting for you

 

[Arrade]

I agree mostly with Super above, but out of range estrogen causes diseases. You don’t want it above range, and if the supps don’t work then exemestane is the best AI

 

[tysono]

High estrogen can also make you apathetic and not get anything done. You're really playing with fire since high estrogen causes issues like prostate cancer and really who knows what else.
I would start with the boron and estroban. You need to be on top of this if you're gonna use duta

I’ll have to look into the estroban as I live in Australia (shipping etc). Also, what are your thoughts on using pregnelalone or preogesterone?

 

[Arrade]

I’ll have to look into the estroban as I live in Australia (shipping etc). Also, what are your thoughts on using pregnelalone or preogesterone?

Progesterone can be anti androgenic, personally I don’t know much about Pregamlone
They might both be suppressive of your natural hormones too, which you don’t want typically.

I don’t know more about those. Personally more synthetic hormones wouldn’t be first choice

 

[tysono]

Progesterone can be anti androgenic, personally I don’t know much about Pregamlone
They might both be suppressive of your natural hormones too, which you don’t want typically.

I don’t know more about those. Personally more synthetic hormones wouldn’t be first choice

Would you be able to send me a link to this estroban stuff? I can’t seem to find it

 

[Arrade]

Would you be able to send me a link to this estroban stuff? I can’t seem to find it

Sorry I think the mod deleted it.
Look up estroban, it should be sold by idea labs

 

[tysono]

Sorry I think the mod deleted it.
Look up estroban, it should be sold by idea labs

I can’t seem to find it man

 

[frank1980]

Aromasin. It is probably your safest bet. I forget exactly how it works, but basically it binds to the aromatose enzyme, rendering it useless. There is no estrogen "rebound" since your body doesn't realize that the enzyme is useless. The enzyme is permanently disabled as opposed to other aromatose inhibitors where they only temporarily stop the enzyme and once the medicine is ceased...bam! big rebound especially since your body is producing new aromatose enzymes. The biggest problem is though how much to take. You do need some estrogen in your body. Talk to a doctor.