Head & Shoulders

[macdruid]

Maybe I read it wrong previously but... wasn't there a theory tossed around on this board that zinc based H&S worked against minoxidil?

 

[misterium]

This is what I am going to *try*.. in order to combat some crown itch spots I've had (finasteride related I'm sure), which nizoral has failed to relieve me of within the past couple months (all shampoos followed by deep conditioning):

- Monday: H&S

- Tuesday: nizoral

- Wednesday: H&S

- Thursday: H&S

- Friday: Tea Tree Mint (Avalon Organics brand, real nice)

- Saturday: nizoral

- Sunday: Tea Tree Mint

- T/Sal 1x monthly

- Evening drops of warm emu oil on my scalp

 

[Temples]

Maybe I read it wrong previously but... wasn't there a theory tossed around on this board that zinc based H&S worked against minoxidil?

Well, in the one study I quoted, the group using minoxidil PLUS pyrithione zinc had no added benefit. However, these studies are good news for people like myself, IwantMyhair, Deaner and others who do not use minoxidil as part of our regimens.

The only drag for me is that I was a c*** hair away from ordering Dr. Lee's 5% Xandrox for my quickly disappearing temples. Now I have to rethink things. This could just be a finasteride shed (months 3-4), though.

I am going to e-mail Dr. Lee sometime this week to get his take on alternating ketoconazole and pyrithione zinc, and using minoxidil with pyrithione zinc.

 

[misterium]

^ Excellent idea..

Also, please, if you would kind sir, do ask Dr. Lee about the rotation of H&S w/ nizoral while on finasteride, in order to combat finasteride irritation/itch.

That might be helpful to hear about too.

 

[Temples]

I wonder if it would be better to
let the H & S sit on the scalp for
5 mins. like with nizoral. Head &
Shoulders also makes an "Extra
Fullness" poo and a seperate
conditoner to help remedy the
decreased hair shaft diameter
issue reported in some studies.

For more info, peep:
HeadAndShoulders.com

IwantMyhair> How do you "warm"
your Emu Oil? That's a great idea,
never thought of that.

Also, please, if you would kind sir, do ask Dr. Lee about the rotation of H&S w/ nizoral while on finasteride, in order to combat finasteride irritation/itch.

That might be helpful to hear about too.

Will do...only if I get to "boink"
your little green fairy.

 

[misterium]

She's all yours man.. this fairy loves we DHT producing men!

I'm going to invest in this Dry Scalp Care version of H&S, the reviews seem to fit what my needs are (anti-itch). It contains an extra conditioner.
http://www.drugstore.com look it up

--------------

To warm my emu oil (I get mine from DDM wholesale, great quality)... I simply get a big coffee mug and heat water in it, for about 2 minutes in the microwave.

I put the bottle in the water and let it sit for a few minutes.

If you don't do this, the oil is so viscous and thick.. not to great for applying. Messier too.

The oil is nice and thin afterwards.. it's like a hot oil treatment that is great for daily use. I use a dropper instead of the pop-top cap that the bottle comes equipped with, same dropper as in a minoxidil bottle (I don't use minoxidil though).

Emu oil can even be used to give your hair itself softness & a shine... put a few drops in your hands and apply. Maybe use before a styling product? It's very luxurious in my opinion, and I just got a new 4oz. bottle

 

[Temples]

Thanks for tip, IwantMyhair! The "Dry Scalp" flavor looks good! I've used many different H & S varieties over the years and I can honestly say that I've liked them all. Just all-around great products.

EDIT: H & S link fixed! Tell them Temples sent ya!

 

[misterium]

Yeah man, I'm kinda hooked on emu oil now. I am still an 'early user' but I think I'm gonna stick with it for life probably..

It just seems so healthy and makes me feel good, in general.

I think HairLossTalk.com should have the word 'emu' linked to a page of information regarding it's supposed benefits.

 

[Temples]

Yeah, I'm hip to E-Oil too. Love the feel and penetration (OK, this is starting to sound too gay.)

Ditto on the "Emu" link.

 

[Deaner]

The flavour of H&S I'm liking these days is the 2in1 with conditioner classic clean, and you're supposed to leave it on your scalp for several minutes just like Nizoral. Lately I've been doing it twice in one shower, and STILL my flakes have been held at bay. I think I've got it all under control, thank god for H&S.

 

[Cassin]

The flavour of H&S I'm liking these days is the 2in1 with conditioner classic clean, and you're supposed to leave it on your scalp for several minutes just like Nizoral. Lately I've been doing it twice in one shower, and STILL my flakes have been held at bay. I think I've got it all under control, thank god for H&S.

Deaner and you other guys just make sure you get the one without Zinc, and if you do use one with Zinc, don't use Copper-Peptides.......ever.

 

[macdruid]

Deaner and you other guys just make sure you get the one without Zinc, and if you do use one with Zinc, don't use Copper-Peptides.......ever.

I think the H&S "Intensive Treatment" in the dark blue bottle is the only one that doesn't have zinc... (or at least that's the case with what they carry at my local store)

 

[Cassin]

And this is why I make that statement about avoiding Zinc.....This is a write up by Dr Pickart of http://www.skinbiology.com


**************************************************

Studies have found that ionic zinc can inhibit 5-alpha reductase (type I) but zinc has no effect on type II reductase. Some studies have found that the combination of B6, zinc salts and azelaic acid, even at low concentrations, caused a 90% inhibition of 5-alpha reductase activity - but this is still not hair growth. In some persons zinc salts are often used in disorders related to excess DHT such as acne and prostrate hyperplasia. The topical application of zinc has shown to reduce sebum production and acne. Some people suffering from acne have been found to have zinc deficiencies in their skin, despite of the fact that they have normal levels within their bloodstream.
The effects of topical zinc on hair growth may be due to skin irritation actions. In the 1970's, a number of severe skin irritants, such as nitrobenzene derivatives, were investigated for hair growth properties. While they initially stimulated hair growth, they ultimately produced unacceptable scalp damage and irritation and could not be continued for use.

Zinc salts can inhibit the action of the immune system macrophages on the skin. Since the macrophages are key cell responsible for skin repair, excessive use of zinc salts on the skin could inhibit skin and hair follicle repair. Mulhern et al 1986 reported that excessive dietary zinc in mice reduced plasma copper and induced alopecia. Lansdown 1991 (Westminster Medical School, Department of Comparative Biology, London, UK) examined the dermal irritancy of six zinc compounds was examined in three animal models. In open patch tests involving five daily applications, zinc chloride (1% aqueous solution) was severely irritant in rabbit, guinea-pig and mouse tests, inducing epidermal hyperplasia and ulceration; aqueous zinc acetate (20%) was slightly less irritant. Zinc oxide (20% suspension dilute Tween 80), zinc sulphate (1% aqueous solution) and zinc pyrithione (20% suspension) were not overtly irritant, but induced a marginal epidermal hyperplasia and increased hair growth. Thus, hair growth effects observed with zinc may be secondary to dermal irritation. (Lansdown AB, Interspecies variations in response to topical application of selected zinc compounds, Food Chem Toxicol 1991 Jan; 29 (1): 57-64)

Like zinc, topical cortisone has been used to promote hair growth and is often reasonable effective in persons with inflammatory scalp conditions. But cortisone stops skin repair and, if used for an extended period, ultimately thins the skin, damages hair follicles, and causes hair loss.

 

[misterium]

Without Zinc ?

But those studies said that the Zinc is beneficial.

So, to add H&S WITH ZINC to my regimine or not?

The copper peptides I can avoid. But if the zinc has been shown helpful like nizoral helpful.. then I want to use that stuff.

So now I'm confused. One study says beneficial, one study says harmful.

 

[Cassin]

But those studies said that the Zinc is beneficial.

So, to add H&S WITH ZINC to my regimine or not?

The copper peptides I can avoid. But if the zinc has been shown helpful like nizoral helpful.. then I want to use that stuff.

So now I'm confused. One study says beneficial, one study says harmful.

The one I posted states it is helpful in the short term, but not long term.

 

[Old Baldy]

Cassin: You found mention of the study I couldn't remember. The 1991 study. Zinc isn't as good as copper peptides. Thanks for the info.! (I knew I read that somewhere.)

 

[Brasileirao]

Cassin, Chuck Palahniuk is one of my all time favorite authors!

Hunter S. Thompson is another.....

Good sh*t main!

Tony

 

[Cassin]

Cassin: You found mention of the study I couldn't remember. The 1991 study. Zinc isn't as good as copper peptides. Thanks for the info.! (I knew I read that somewhere.)

Your welcome. I wouldn't touch Zinc after reading that.

Cassin, Chuck Palahniuk is one of my all time favorite authors!

Hunter S. Thompson is another.....

Good sh*t main!

Tony

I love me some Chuck. Everything he has done is gold except for his latest book, but we all have bad days I guess. How have you missed my signature for so long? I have been putting Chuck quotes there or a year!

Hunter,I am not a fan anymore but I used to be. If your a fan of Chuck you should check out Ayn Rand next. Very wordy and long winded but beautiful writing. Check out The Fountainhead as a primer for everything else she has done.

 

[misterium]

Damn,

I guess with H&S either 1) You love it or 2) You hate it.

Based upon: 1) Actual benefits received from using it or 2) Fear of trying it due to reading study.

I dunno I guess I have to try a bottle for myself ..

 

[Cassin]

But is it enough Zinc to be harmful? Who knows, but probably not.

I for sure wouldn't use H&S if I was using CP's regardless.

My intention is not to scare people away from H&S, but mainly from starting a Zix thread since were on the topic of zinc alone.