For bryan and Foote. | Page 31 | HairLossTalk Forums
Dismiss Notice
Forum Update: Aug 19. Feedback for the Admin? Upgrade coming: Click Here.

For bryan and Foote.

Discussion in 'Men's General Hair Loss Discussions' started by Guest, Jul 11, 2005.

  1. S Foote.

    S Foote. Experienced Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2003
    Messages:
    871
    Likes Received:
    54
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    But that wouldn't explain how the follicle itself would shrink Armando?

    We know through the example of in growing hairs, that provided the mechanism of hair production exists, the hair can force through skin!

    The other problem i see is how can the much weaker vellous hairs still produced in male pattern baldness follicles, manage to get past a sebum plug?

    Regards.

    S Foote.
     
  2. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2002
    Messages:
    8,624
    Likes Received:
    32
    Dislikes Received:
    10
    Why would its volume decrease?

    Bryan
     
  3. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2002
    Messages:
    8,624
    Likes Received:
    32
    Dislikes Received:
    10
    Then his theory is based on a false premise, because we know now that sebum doesn't "ride" the hair outwards, and certain doesn't "slide back down" it! :wink:

    Bryan
     
  4. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2002
    Messages:
    8,624
    Likes Received:
    32
    Dislikes Received:
    10
    Yes it does. What link are you talking about that allegedly shows otherwise?

    Bryan
     
  5. michael barry

    michael barry Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,809
    Likes Received:
    11
    Dislikes Received:
    0
     
  6. S Foote.

    S Foote. Experienced Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2003
    Messages:
    871
    Likes Received:
    54
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    I am refering to the body hair to male pattern baldness area transplants Michael has referenced here Bryan.

    If your statement above "yes it does" refers to the donor dominance idea you claim below, androgen "dependent" body hair transplants, and the doughnutting issue, clearly refute your claim.

    http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... hp?t=17571

    S Foote.
     
  7. S Foote.

    S Foote. Experienced Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2003
    Messages:
    871
    Likes Received:
    54
    Dislikes Received:
    0
     
  8. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2002
    Messages:
    8,624
    Likes Received:
    32
    Dislikes Received:
    10
    How does it refute my claim?

    Bryan
     
  9. Moving this thread to the GENERAL HAIR LOSS DISCUSSIONS.

    Admin
     
  10. S Foote.

    S Foote. Experienced Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2003
    Messages:
    871
    Likes Received:
    54
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    I see, playing dumb yet again :wink:

    Well Bryan, you clearly claim that androgens are directly dictating the way follicles grow, by a genetic interaction within the heart of the follicle cells. Here is just one of your statements.

    http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... hp?t=17571

    Quote:

    "Nowadays we have overwhelming evidence for what causes male pattern balding: the direct, suppressive influence of androgens on human scalp follicles is a prime factor in this condition."

    You have clearly argued that transplantation proves this internal "direct" action of androgens, because there are no changes in the growth characteristics of follicles when transplanted.


    But all the modern evidence in body to scalp hair transplantation, refutes your "no change" claims Bryan, including the continued hair loss in the very graft type you quoted in the link above, that we now know happens.

    By the way Bryan people can clearly see from reading this thread, that you continue to try to claim it is androgen induced TGF beta-1 that is miniaturising follicles in male pattern baldness.

    So why is it you didn't object when Dr Proctor gave a different explaination?

    http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/mess ... adid=59822

    Quote:


    "Dr. Proctor would say that copper-peptides work by their ability to destroy the superoxide radical, which he says signals the hair follicle to stop growing. I have no particular reason to doubt what he says.

    Bryan"

    Then you wonder why you have lost all credibility on these forums :roll:

    S Foote.
     
  11. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2002
    Messages:
    8,624
    Likes Received:
    32
    Dislikes Received:
    10
    In the context of balding, yes.

    That's what I asked you to explain. Are you referring to that Korean study? I've already responded to that several times.

    Are you referring to the alleged "doughnutting" effect?

    Actually, I've never claimed that it is only TGF beta-1 that is involved in miniaturizing follicles in male pattern baldness. That's YOU putting words in my mouth. I've always maintained that several factors are probably involved in male pattern baldness.

    Because I believe that Dr. Proctor was correct in what he said.

    Bryan
     
  12. S Foote.

    S Foote. Experienced Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2003
    Messages:
    871
    Likes Received:
    54
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    That's what I asked you to explain. Are you referring to that Korean study? I've already responded to that several times.

    Are you referring to the alleged "doughnutting" effect?

    Actually, I've never claimed that it is only TGF beta-1 that is involved in miniaturizing follicles in male pattern baldness. That's YOU putting words in my mouth. I've always maintained that several factors are probably involved in male pattern baldness.

    Because I believe that Dr. Proctor was correct in what he said.

    Bryan[/quote:71242]

    The developing facts that are refuting the old idea's Bryan, are very clear to the scientists.

    If you want to go on with your if, what, and may be's like this, there is really no point going on with this discussion.

    If you can find any hard evidence in the modern body of evidence that you think supports the old idea's. i would like to hear about it? :wink:

    S Foote.
     
  13. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2002
    Messages:
    8,624
    Likes Received:
    32
    Dislikes Received:
    10
    Let the record show that you wouldn't answer my questions.

    Bryan
     
  14. HARM1

    HARM1 Established Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2006
    Messages:
    290
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Q:
    I like the sebum on my hair, and tend not to wash it, if the theory that claims that sebum plugs the shaft is correct then I am hurting myself?
     
  15. S Foote.

    S Foote. Experienced Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2003
    Messages:
    871
    Likes Received:
    54
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    What questions for God's sake?

    I asked "YOU" the question of how can you justify your past claims about the old studies, within the context of the modern body of evidence?????

    I can see no "questions" to me in your last post!

    This articulate babble of yours, is a recognised tactic of psuedo scientists, who cannot back up their claims with hard facts Bryan. :roll:

    You just insult the inteligence of the people here, with this bulls**t

    The "record" is very clear Bryan!

    I will ask you again.

    How can you possibly justify your rant about old transplantation studies in this link, with the modern body of evidence????????????????????????

    http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... hp?t=17571

    Remember "YOU" claimed this old study proved beyond question that any other theory about male pattern baldness was just plain wrong!

    So tell us all how your "on the record" claim, fits with what we now know about continued hair loss in these grafts in the male pattern baldness area?

    Never mind the modern body hair transplants that blow your claims away, just answer the "doughnutting" question?

    S Foote.
     
  16. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2002
    Messages:
    8,624
    Likes Received:
    32
    Dislikes Received:
    10
    OH REALLY?? I guess there's something wrong with your browser, then, because everybody else saw those questions which you (supposedly) didn't. Maybe you need to format your hard-drive and re-install Internet Explorer! :D

    Here they are again, from just a few posts previous to this one:

    Wow, that thread on the Nordstrom study that I started has been a real thorn in your side, hasn't it, Stephen? :wink:

    There IS no information that I've ever seen about "continued hair loss" in those grafts. That's apparently a figment of your highly overactive imagination.

    It's funny how there's precious-little information about the "doughnutting" effect. I haven't seen any information at all about it in published medical journal studies. You've cited a few simple statements here and there on hair transplant Web sites, but that's about the extent of it. In the absence of any more detailed information than just what those simple statements say, I have no reason to doubt the explanation given on those sites. It SURE AS HELL has no bearing on the wild claims that YOU make about the (alleged) ultimate failure of hair transplants that have been done around the world in the last quarter-century, and it sure as hell has no bearing whatsoever on the overwhelmingly conclusive results of Nordstom's ingenious study.

    Keep ranting and raving about the "doughnutting" effect, Stephen. I'm getting a big kick out of it! :wink:

    Bryan
     
  17. S Foote.

    S Foote. Experienced Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2003
    Messages:
    871
    Likes Received:
    54
    Dislikes Received:
    0
     
  18. CCS

    CCS Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Messages:
    8,674
    Likes Received:
    21
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    i've been scanning part of this overly long argument, and I don't believe endema causes hair loss because transplanting baling hair follicls without their sebum glands to an arm does not affect hair loss speed compared to its former neighbors, and follicles without sebum glands trasplanted to the front of the head from the donor sides do not die even though surrounded by "sick sebum glands".

    I wish Bryan would spend less time here and more time helping us design the ideal vehicle for RU.
     
  19. HARM1

    HARM1 Established Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2006
    Messages:
    290
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    PLZ? :oops:
     
  20. CCS

    CCS Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Messages:
    8,674
    Likes Received:
    21
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    i read that donutting occurs because follicles in the center don't get as much blood as those on the outside. The same would occur if you took identical punches from balding hairs and switched them. This would show that the cutting of blood vessels, not the health of sebum glands, causes the donutting.
     

Share This Page