Fibrosis & Calcification Reversal: Rob's Hypotheses & Theories

[Capone]

GOD, in 2019 some people are thinkin a good diet can reverse or avoid male pattern baldness...............................

It can’t reverse it but a poor one will speed it up in people prone to it.

 

[Capone]

I am getting each time more inclined to this inflammation theory.
I believe the DHT increase on scalp is just a body response to the process, not the cause.
That's why it makes sense when we hear that medicine for arthritis brought hair back as a side effect.

Same here. Every single time I come back after a weekend with the kids I shed like f***. We usually “treat” ourselves to pizza etc and plenty of sweets. It takes a few days of me on the Turmeric latte and less carbs for the shedding to go to near zero in the shower.

 

[itchymadscalp]

Why note using Collagenase clostridium histolyticum ?

Peyronie's disease is a localized fibrotic disorder of the penis. CCH can help to degrade some forms of collagen.

So maybe by injecting CCH in the scalp you can reverse calcification ... and voila.

Maybe not. Who wants to try ?

 

[Me Vs DiffuseThinning]

Why note using Collagenase clostridium histolyticum ?

Peyronie's disease is a localized fibrotic disorder of the penis. CCH can help to degrade some forms of collagen.

So maybe by injecting CCH in the scalp you can reverse calcification ... and voila.

Maybe not. Who wants to try ?

I'm gonna try this if I can find it online.

 

[itchymadscalp]

I'm gonna try this if I can find it online.

I don't know if it's a good idea. I came upon an article about a man having a bone-dick ... and after that I search about a cure for that, and its seems CCH can help because it can break up the elastin fibers or something like that. I don't know if its safe to use on/in the scalp. But I wanted to share anyway.

 

[fuggles]

vitamin D,E,k2,A to stop calcification

vitamin C and gelatin/lysine to form proper collagen

serrapeptase, papain , bromelain to remove the old fibrosis and old protein build up.
Bromelain literally tenderises steak in BBQ houses.

massage and dermarolling to further break down the old protein/fibrosis


things not using but in theory work
- MSM, taurine, Salycylic acid, acid peels on the scalp, aloe vera,
random vitamins,
topicla caffeine, topical vitamin b3 .

None of them are shown to remove the old fibrosis.

 

[LeeVanCleef]

I bought the ebook November of 2017 and did the massages for about 4 months. All I got were numb fingers and exacerbated diffuse thinning on top. My front and top was pretty good, but at the time my main concern was the crown. I quit after 4 months because my hair was getting worse. I also changed my diet because he recommended no bread or pasta, oatmeal etcetera. More oysters, bone broth/ collagen supplements, no cruciferous vegetables, more grass fed beef or organic chicken ect.
I freaked out and quit. Not saying that it was the massages, but I decided not to stay with it. It may have worked if I stuck with it but I wasn't willing to risk it.
Got on rolling and minoxidil and started seeing some results in 2 months. Im sticking with this for a year.

Did the diffuse thinning ever grow back after stopping massage? I've been doing the scalp massage method for 6 months and have experienced the same thing. First of all the minaturised hairs around the temples shed out, but now I'm seeing widespread thinning behind the hair line and ontop. While overall hair thickness has improved, when I part my hair it looks as if I have a less hair density than before, as if it's the early stages of diffuse thinning.

Looking at pics this time last summer my hair looks much thicker. It makes me wonder if massage causes to much shock to the scalp. I can feel a lot of short, stubbly hairs on my scalp so am hoping it'll grow back to normal, but a couple months ago ended up shedding a load of short hairs, so I'm just worried the scalp massage has sped up the balding process...even worse turning it into a diffuse issue, instead of just receding/thinning crown.

 

[inmyhead]

GOD, in 2019 some people are thinkin a good diet can reverse or avoid male pattern baldness...............................

Agree... It's ridiculous and wastes people time. They could try some other valid treatments instead of wasting follices and few years by trying to fix male pattern baldness with diet.. NOT A SINGLE PERSON has recovered from male pattern baldness by fixing his diet.

 

[fuggles]

UREA cream is also another substance that can locally reverse some dead skin build up and get rid of calluses and dead skin and maybe fibrosis,

but I am not sure

 

[BetaBoy]

This theory seems rather silly imo, why does conventional hair transplantation work with a very high degree of success, why doesn't transplanting miniaturised follicles to regions of the body with no fibrosis or calcification result in change to the miniaturisation process? We should not be observing such things if we were to assume this to be a localised skin disorder.

If I were to give my broscience guess as to what causes ΑGΑ/male pattern baldness I'd bet on it ending up being immuno-related, it would explain why transplanting miniaturised hairs into totally immunodeficient mice results into terminal conversion and why some classes of immunosuppressants are showing promise.

 

[pegasus2]

Just some more broscience here, but take away DHT and give the hair a healthy skin environment, and it seems like it's able to grow back. Transplanted follicles are placed 3.5mm deep, so they don't have to fight fibrosis, and they have an adequate blood supply. Once the hair is miniaturized and fibrosis has set in the hair can't move much deeper, and thus can't go terminal again. I think this plays a role.

 

[TomRiddle]

Just some more broscience here, but take away DHT and give the hair a healthy skin environment, and it seems like it's able to grow back. Transplanted follicles are placed 3.5mm deep, so they don't have to fight fibrosis, and they have an adequate blood supply. Once the hair is miniaturized and fibrosis has set in the hair can't move much deeper, and thus can't go terminal again. I think this plays a role.

That mice study that transplanted miniaturized hair from the balding scalp and normal hair from the non balding scalp kind of shows what you are saying. The miniaturized hair from the balding scalp grew faster than the normal hair from the non balding scalp, so maybe that's what's the real problem and i always thought it plays a big part, scalp environment, especially after years of balding.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12734505/

 

[sonictemples]

Rob is a nice dude, that's for sure but massages weren't adequate for me and I was barely losing hair at the time. Maybe we should find more effective ways to counteract the fibrosis/tension.

For example, instead of massaging my perimeter muscles for 20 mins, I started adding some muscle relief creams over it and it was way faster and way more effective.

 

[pegasus2]

That mice study that transplanted miniaturized hair from the balding scalp and normal hair from the non balding scalp kind of shows what you are saying. The miniaturized hair from the balding scalp grew faster than the normal hair from the non balding scalp, so maybe that's what's the real problem and i always thought it plays a big part, scalp environment, especially after years of balding.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12734505/

Normally, development of the whole follicle population may cause expansion of an adipose layer which is refractory, in that a full complement of developing follicles is required to cause its full expansion. Growth retardation of some follicles, as in Ra-\- mice, might then be sufficient to make the degree of adipose expansion subnormal; near agenesis of the follicle population as in RaRa mice could result in virtual absence of any adipose layer. It is further argued that the subnormal depth of skin consequently available for those ragged follicles which do develop fully results in these follicles being constricted. They therefore become abnormal in shape and orientation (Plates 1 and 2). These morphological abnormalities seem especially marked after 15 days' post-partum, when the hair follicles are retracting and skin thickness diminishing. It seems as if the adiposus normally contracts as retraction of the follicle population permits it to do so. In Ra-\- mice where the follicles are out of phase in development some follicles begin to retract before others. Apparently adiposus contraction commences with retraction of the first follicles, so that the later retracting follicles, already distorted by their previous growth in a restricted space, become further compressed by the adiposus contracting ahead of their retractive phase. Similar anomalies were found in the few large RaRa follicles which occur. Most of these relationships between subnormal skin depth and abnormal follicle morphology occur also in adult ragged mice and similar explanations can be offered there.
https://dev.biologists.org/content/develop/10/4/507.full.pdf

 

[TomRiddle]

Normally, development of the whole follicle population may cause expansion of an adipose layer which is refractory, in that a full complement of developing follicles is required to cause its full expansion. Growth retardation of some follicles, as in Ra-\- mice, might then be sufficient to make the degree of adipose expansion subnormal; near agenesis of the follicle population as in RaRa mice could result in virtual absence of any adipose layer. It is further argued that the subnormal depth of skin consequently available for those ragged follicles which do develop fully results in these follicles being constricted. They therefore become abnormal in shape and orientation (Plates 1 and 2). These morphological abnormalities seem especially marked after 15 days' post-partum, when the hair follicles are retracting and skin thickness diminishing. It seems as if the adiposus normally contracts as retraction of the follicle population permits it to do so. In Ra-\- mice where the follicles are out of phase in development some follicles begin to retract before others. Apparently adiposus contraction commences with retraction of the first follicles, so that the later retracting follicles, already distorted by their previous growth in a restricted space, become further compressed by the adiposus contracting ahead of their retractive phase. Similar anomalies were found in the few large RaRa follicles which occur. Most of these relationships between subnormal skin depth and abnormal follicle morphology occur also in adult ragged mice and similar explanations can be offered there.
https://dev.biologists.org/content/develop/10/4/507.full.pdf

Hmm very interesting i have to read more about it, many thanks

 

[S Foote.]

Just a few points about that immune deficient mice study.

These mice do not produce fibrotic scar tissue upon healing, because of their immune status. Also I corresponded with one of the authors of that study when it first came out, and he confirmed that all the transplanted follicles were stripped of their original surrounding tissue. So there was no fibrosis around all these transplanted miniaturised follicles, and these enlarged just fine.

What is also very important here is the large follicles reduced in size, and both large and small follicles stabilized at the one particular size that the conditions in the surrounding tissue allowed.

 

[TomRiddle]

Just a few points about that immune deficient mice study.

These mice do not produce fibrotic scar tissue upon healing, because of their immune status. Also I corresponded with one of the authors of that study when it first came out, and he confirmed that all the transplanted follicles were stripped of their original surrounding tissue. So there was no fibrosis around all these transplanted miniaturised follicles, and these enlarged just fine.

What is also very important here is the large follicles reduced in size, and both large and small follicles stabilized at the one particular size that the conditions in the surrounding tissue allowed.

Yeah you are right i have spoke to some good transplant surgeons about this subject also and they are convinced that the success of a hair transplant surgery revolves around how the tissue around is extracted with the follicle itself and how it is implanted afterwards, so yeah worth on keeping that in mind because with time we will have a better understanding of the process itself.

 

[balda]

There are fibrosis prevention and reversion remedies on the market or near too. But they pricey. Among them:
- adiponectin-related stuff: ALY688, ADP355, ...
- prostagladin-related stuff: Bimatoprost, Setipiprant, etc and even Niacin.
- and some generic stuff like Taurine, GHK, etc

Fibrosis is one of the key points in dermal white adipose tissue based Androgenetic Alopecia hypothesis:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/dwat-dermal-white-adipose-tissue-hypothesis.130609

 

[Will Be an Egg in 5 years]

I respect all theories. I just hope some of them ended up being proved truth and we get better meds and treatment.

 

[Caillou]

been thinking about the same thing today