Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

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JaneyElizabeth

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Experimentality said:
Partly agree with you here. AA's are not needed in the sense that high enough E2 doses will do everything that AA's do (and more). However, pure AA's will halt Androgenetic Alopecia in all individuals. If you are still experiencing hair loss on a prostate cancer-dose of Apalutamide, Enzalutamide or Darolutamide your hairloss is not androgenic but due to another cause. Bicalutamide, as said, is more difficult to assess since it is non-pure and may not fully block the AR. I also think Apalutamide and Darolutamide are pretty clean since they target almost exclusively the AR and do not cause elevated liver enzymes (they are 'liver safe', unlike Bicalutamide). Of course, they carry all sides you would expect from blocking AR's, and they are extremely expensive as well (orally). If one does not care about money and is going down the HRT route, they might as well add Apa/Daro to they regimen. Enzalutamide has off-target GABA binding that causes seizures in some individuals, and can be considered inferior for this reason. It should be noted that anecdotally, AA's on their own are not known for causing regrowth but more so for maintenaince.

I am not sure why you think currently available SERMs are valueable additions to hairloss protocols except for gyno prevention (SERMs are not very healthy either and should be avoided as much as possible).
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I am not high on Serms at all. Mostly the Serm questions on Reddit go unanswered. A few non-binary folks have asserted success. Serms are mostly for people seeking a chimerical body form, meaning mixing of parts in terms of the perceptions of others. Usually these folks either seek only breast growth, or buttocks and hip growth. Some transgender individuals if not most on HRT exhibit some forms of both sexual looks. Janey might argue that seeking just hair as an XY is seeking a chimerical look but since some white XY's do have essentially perfect hair for life that can even grow to long lengths, this aspect is muted.

It's hard for me to be against people using HRT for whatever they want; the genie is out of the bottle but I am sort of eh about this usage of Serms as it appears to me when answering questions that such folks are sort of dabblers or wannabe's but they are still data points. I believe people should start out using the least amount of meds for HRT possible and that parenteral ingestion, i.e. non-oral, is safest. I think that the patches are the best ingestion method of high-dose estradiol overall.
 
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Solxama

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JaneyElizabeth said:
I feel that from your posts. I tend to feel the need, perhaps like you do, to explain myself in all of this. Bridge was more comfortable not doing that but also, as the first to really do this and write about it and record it pictorially, he was generally almost put up on an awe-like pedestal. He was fairly young but people aren't impressed by maintenance in terms of hair loss so guys who have never been substantially bald, never will be seen in the same way as Bridge who in most ways, apart from his talents and knowledge, was seen as weird, threatening and ugly before he fully "feminized" if you will. He said it himself. I use my before and after pics in deprecation as to why my ex was right to not want that "guy" around anymore. For most of us, it behooves us to be as "normal" as we can before others. You are unlikely to have to worry about developing/exhibiting your new/different psychological state. I am uncertain whether Janey is a brand name of sorts, a personality that I am developing, a long phase or the ego/personality always in control behind the scenes. I haven't shied away from illeism because illeism and the distinction between who I was and who I am and project to be, is the key thing in my existence now in terms of returning/normalizing relations with my family. I should have just told them I was suffering from an endocrine disorder, which was true, and ultimately, many transgender females do. They will do this just to stop the noise from testosterone, sex or no sex at a certain point and the sexual aspect becomes much, much less compulsive but it's there.
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Yeah, I do seem to have a a need to explain myself, I think this stems from the fact that people love dualism and shoving everything into categories. The amount of times I have heard that I must be this or that just because I say, believe or do something is such a big number that I prefer to simply explain myself clearly, so nobody assumes stuff about me. Sometimes it's so tiring simply being yourself in this world lol.

Interesting stuff about SERMs, @Experimentality . As for me I won't be using them with my new regimen, my plan is to reduce gyno by staying slim and on a diet so I don't provide enough fat for big breast growth. If the gyno somehow still manages to get really bad, I might try them, but even then I'm not so sure. I have accepted it as an inevitable side effect for a chance to get my hair back. I neglected myself and my body, I let my hair die for years and I did nothing to save it, so now when the situation is desperate, gyno is the price I will have to pay.
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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Solxama said:
Yeah, I do seem to have a a need to explain myself, I think this stems from the fact that people love dualism and shoving everything into categories. The amount of times I have heard that I must be this or that just because I say, believe or do something is such a big number that I prefer to simply explain myself clearly, so nobody assumes stuff about me. Sometimes it's so tiring simply being yourself in this world lol.

Interesting stuff about SERMs, @Experimentality . As for me I won't be using them with my new regimen, my plan is to reduce gyno by staying slim and on a diet so I don't provide enough fat for big breast growth. If the gyno somehow still manages to get really bad, I might try them, but even then I'm not so sure. I have accepted it as an inevitable side effect for a chance to get my hair back. I neglected myself and my body, I let my hair die for years and I did nothing to save it, so now when the situation is desperate, gyno is the price I will have to pay.
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I tell myself that if I get back down to 125 pounds like I was often as a male, then I might be able to obscure what breast growth is left, if I wanted to but then I realized that doing so might make my *** deflate and look scrawny so once I can forget about what my extended family thinks and just be in the moment with my immediate family then much of this should resolve because I am just me, better and happier and I already did the male thing once and I wasn't going to top that experience regardless. So I jumped ship and I haven't looked back personally.

I had a really good run as a male, with many beautiful, brilliant children and a rich beautiful wife until the psychological aspects of testosterone and the external ones became toxic. Even if I were not trans, my training is in economics and things like marginal cost and opportunity cost and the opportunity and marginal costs of remaining male were excessive, far beyond bothering to maintain objectively and certainly not subjectively, even if it is hard on some of the few people who at least were involved in my life to see me this way.
 
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JaneyElizabeth said:
I tell myself that if I get back down to 125 pounds like I was often as a male, then I might be able to obscure what breast growth is left, if I wanted to but then I realized that doing so might make my *** deflate and look scrawny so once I can forget about what my extended family thinks and just be in the moment with my immediate family then much of this should resolve because I am just me, better and happier and I already did the male thing once and I wasn't going to top that experience regardless. So I jumped ship and I haven't looked back personally.

I had a really good run as a male, with many beautiful, brilliant children and a rich beautiful wife until the psychological aspects of testosterone and the external ones became toxic. Even if I were not trans, my training is in economics and things like marginal cost and opportunity cost and the opportunity and marginal costs of remaining male were excessive, far beyond bothering to maintain objectively and certainly not subjectively, even if it is hard on some of the few people who at least were involved in my life to see me this way.
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The testosterone toxic thing really speaks to me, as I think I have some kind of Androgen allergy or something lol. I started balding at the age of 17, my skin is very demanding, I generally feel unwell when doing T raising activities like lifting, I dislike the male sex drive and aggression that I struggled with for a long time etc. It's like my body hates it's own hormones.

Another thing pointing me in this direction is the fact that since I started drinking Spearmint Tea, which is a natural (but weak) anti-androgen I generally started feeling much better, and then after starting Finasteride a few days ago I already noticed that I never before felt as peaceful in my life, except while meditating. Maybe it's placebo with the Fina, as I'm only on it for a few days, who knows? Either way, I will keep monitoring how I feel.
 
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I felt like I should have been posting something the last week's.

Finasteride didn't work on me, literally no changes after MONTHS. Doctors suspect it's now a genetic's disease. They took a blood draw and are making now a gen-test in the laboratory, if I am positive for Congenital adrenal hyperplasia. If not, I am having an appointment already for september to check my abdomen.

GG
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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Pls_NW-1 said:
I felt like I should have been posting something the last week's.

Finasteride didn't work on me, literally no changes after MONTHS. Doctors suspect it's now a genetic's disease. They took a blood draw and are making now a gen-test in the laboratory, if I am positive for Congenital adrenal hyperplasia. If not, I am having an appointment already for september to check my abdomen.

GG
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Well, you are a young gentleman and a scholar and I will hold out a good thought for you. I don't know enough about that condition to comment.

Without you and Almas and me and Tato posting, again this thread is not an everyday thing so I didn't see this until now. For some reason, the system doesn't ping me about this thread but if I post on one of the various "my life is over" threads to try to talk someone off the proverbial ledge, I get scores of typical incel responses very few of which interest me. Nobody posts pics on this thread anymore except for the people asking for help, which is fine but originally, I saw this as the thread where we all made the case for HRT as viable for most XY's, if they could hack the sides and the psychological baggage. We have people pop in from time to time to complain if I post seemingly extraneous material and then they disappear anyway, offering nothing in its place and you and Almas made an important contribution with respect to bicaluatamide and I enjoyed going around in circles with you guys about that. Almas was a quick but important data point as he abandoned single shot bica and then disappeared into the ether after going on E2 injections.

I will follow your situation with interest and Goddess or G_D, if that's your thing, bless you and keep you safe from harm and with hair.

Best,
Janey
 
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Solxama

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Don't worry @JaneyElizabeth , when I get my hands on HRT I will be posting a lot of pictures and hopefully my case will be another example that this stuff works for hair loss.

Anyway, I'm about to take my 7th Finasteride pill, thus nearly a week has passed since I took my first dose. I have already noticed some effects, I'll split them into positive and negative, here we go :

Positive (Some of these may be considered negative by most men, but I'm not a typical male, so I consider them positive) :
-Feeling a strong inner peace and calm.
-Lower libido (No more morning wood, wet dreams, intrusive sexual thoughts).
-Expressing my emotions has become easier.
-It's easier to clear my mind during meditation, and I generally find it easier to concentrate.
-My sleep is better and my dreams are more vivid.
-Body Hair seems to be regrowing slower, it's been 5 days since I last shaved, and it's still pretty short and practically only visible close up.

Negative :
-My balls hurt like hell for the first three days, now it's mostly gone, but still I feel like having mild blue balls.
-My stomach hurt for the first four days, and I had constipation, but now it's gone.

To be honest, I can kind of understand why most traditionally masculine men may be anxious about starting this stuff, as it really does seem to have the side effects that are spoken about. I don't mind them, in fact I love most of them, but I can see why it would bother some sexually active, gender conforming men. Not to sound smug or anything, but it seems that baldness for some is an inevitability if they want to remain "real men", so I'm glad I'm different, as I don't need to concern myself with things like that HAHAHA... Ok, maybe I am a bit smug lol ;)

If this so called "male" drug and a pretty weak one at that has all these effects on me, I wonder what kind of effect HRT will have... I can't wait to find out :D .

Also a really positive thing happened today, I don't have to hide my Fina anymore! My mum started her talk with me once again about my potential future family, girlfriend etc. Normally I end these conversations quickly, but this time (probably due to the effects of Fina lol) I stood my ground and came out to her as Asexual, and also told her I am on Fina as hair is more important to me then my libido. And the best part of this is, she accepted it! To be honest, she was pretty reluctant to, but in the end she told me that if hair is so important to me, she won't try to persuade me to stop. I still don't plan to tell her about HRT, as I prefer to take things slowly, but this gave me hope that when I visit her during the next few years, and she sees me with gyno and feminization (and hopefully hair), maybe her reaction won't be as bad as I imagined.

PS. @Pls_NW-1 , I'm so sad that Finasteride didn't work out for you, I wish you to stay strong and I hope that your health and hair loss issues get better soon :).
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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Solxama said:
Don't worry @JaneyElizabeth , when I get my hands on HRT I will be posting a lot of pictures and hopefully my case will be another example that this stuff works for hair loss.

Anyway, I'm about to take my 7th Finasteride pill, thus nearly a week has passed since I took my first dose. I have already noticed some effects, I'll split them into positive and negative, here we go :

Positive (Some of these may be considered negative by most men, but I'm not a typical male, so I consider them positive) :
-Feeling a strong inner peace and calm.
-Lower libido (No more morning wood, wet dreams, intrusive sexual thoughts).
-Expressing my emotions has become easier.
-It's easier to clear my mind during meditation, and I generally find it easier to concentrate.
-My sleep is better and my dreams are more vivid.
-Body Hair seems to be regrowing slower, it's been 5 days since I last shaved, and it's still pretty short and practically only visible close up.

Negative :
-My balls hurt like hell for the first three days, now it's mostly gone, but still I feel like having mild blue balls.
-My stomach hurt for the first four days, and I had constipation, but now it's gone.

To be honest, I can kind of understand why most traditionally masculine men may be anxious about starting this stuff, as it really does seem to have the side effects that are spoken about. I don't mind them, in fact I love most of them, but I can see why it would bother some sexually active, gender conforming men. Not to sound smug or anything, but it seems that baldness for some is an inevitability if they want to remain "real men", so I'm glad I'm different, as I don't need to concern myself with things like that HAHAHA... Ok, maybe I am a bit smug lol ;)

If this so called "male" drug and a pretty weak one at that has all these effects on me, I wonder what kind of effect HRT will have... I can't wait to find out :D .

Also a really positive thing happened today, I don't have to hide my Fina anymore! My mum started her talk with me once again about my potential future family, girlfriend etc. Normally I end these conversations quickly, but this time (probably due to the effects of Fina lol) I stood my ground and came out to her as Asexual, and also told her I am on Fina as hair is more important to me then my libido. And the best part of this is, she accepted it! To be honest, she was pretty reluctant to, but in the end she told me that if hair is so important to me, she won't try to persuade me to stop. I still don't plan to tell her about HRT, as I prefer to take things slowly, but this gave me hope that when I visit her during the next few years, and she sees me with gyno and feminization (and hopefully hair), maybe her reaction won't be as bad as I imagined.

PS. @Pls_NW-1 , I'm so sad that Finasteride didn't work out for you, I wish you to stay strong and I hope that your health and hair loss issues get better soon :).
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Placebo effects. Nobody said anything remotely like that when I started finasteride in 1998 and I have never felt anything from taking finasteride to the point that I can't tell if I miss a day or even when I went off it last year. Nothing. I never grew any hair from min/finasteride together but I was always seeking maintenance. If estrogen and spironolactone don't cause ball ache or whatever, why would finasteride?
 
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JaneyElizabeth said:
Placebo effects. Nobody said anything remotely like that when I started finasteride in 1998 and I have never felt anything from taking finasteride to the point that I can't tell if I miss a day or even when I went off it last year. Nothing. I never grew any hair from min/finasteride together but I was always seeking maintenance. If estrogen and spironolactone don't cause ball ache or whatever, why would finasteride?
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Well, for the first time I will have to disagree with you @JaneyElizabeth . I'm not trying to insult you, so don't take it that way, as I really do appreciate your vast knowledge and friendliness, but the mindset of "I don't have these effects, so it must be false" is in my opinion very wrong and even unscientific, as every person is different in how they react to medication.

Yes, some of the effects I have listed are most likely placebo, I said it myself in the post before the last one, but I know for a fact some of them are definitely not, as they are even listed on the insert leaflet in the box, for example the lowered libido. To be honest I didn't expect any effects, so it's also not likely that I thought myself into all of them. I think the explanation for these effects is different, and has a lot to do with myself. First, the thing that I call a "Androgen allergy" has a lot to do here. Since I am now lowering about 70% of my DHT, which is the strongest Androgen, I am feeling better as my body seems to hate Androgens. The second reason is my own fault, I have been doing mindfulness meditation since June 2019, and this greatly strengthens the mind-body connection, so it basically made me hypersensitive to a lot of things, including medication.

As for the ball ache thing, this is also listed on the leaflet, but as a "unknown rate of occurrence" side effect. I also know why it happened to me. Since November 2019, I have fully stopped masturbation, my only ejaculations since then are wet dreams. This means my balls don't really produce much sperm, since my "tank" is basically full at all times, and only empties through wet dreams and reabsorption of semen (And that does not happen very often, the semen cycle is about 64 days). This leads to my balls feeling heavy all the time. As we all know, DHT is the strongest Androgen that is now being blocked with Fina, so my body tried to compensate it's lack for the first few days by producing more T, a known effect of Finasteride. So when we combine this effect with my balls feeling heavy and not really used to working that much, I think it could most likely be the reason for my discomfort during the first few days. Now it's mostly gone, like 90%. I know this sounds pretty weird, but other people have noticed the same thing with Fina, I found others describing the ball ache on reddit.

Once again, I'm not trying to discredit you Janey, I'm just pointing out that every person is different, I hope you don't mind :)
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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Solxama said:
Well, for the first time I will have to disagree with you @JaneyElizabeth . I'm not trying to insult you, so don't take it that way, as I really do appreciate your vast knowledge and friendliness, but the mindset of "I don't have these effects, so it must be false" is in my opinion very wrong and even unscientific, as every person is different in how they react to medication.

Yes, some of the effects I have listed are most likely placebo, I said it myself in the post before the last one, but I know for a fact some of them are definitely not, as they are even listed on the insert leaflet in the box, for example the lowered libido. To be honest I didn't expect any effects, so it's also not likely that I thought myself into all of them. I think the explanation for these effects is different, and has a lot to do with myself. First, the thing that I call a "Androgen allergy" has a lot to do here. Since I am now lowering about 70% of my DHT, which is the strongest Androgen, I am feeling better as my body seems to hate Androgens. The second reason is my own fault, I have been doing mindfulness meditation since June 2019, and this greatly strengthens the mind-body connection, so it basically made me hypersensitive to a lot of things, including medication.

As for the ball ache thing, this is also listed on the leaflet, but as a "unknown rate of occurrence" side effect. I also know why it happened to me. Since November 2019, I have fully stopped masturbation, my only ejaculations since then are wet dreams. This means my balls don't really produce much sperm, since my "tank" is basically full at all times, and only empties through wet dreams and reabsorption of semen (And that does not happen very often, the semen cycle is about 64 days). This leads to my balls feeling heavy all the time. As we all know, DHT is the strongest Androgen that is now being blocked with Fina, so my body tried to compensate it's lack for the first few days by producing more T, a known effect of Finasteride. So when we combine this effect with my balls feeling heavy and not really used to working that much, I think it could most likely be the reason for my discomfort during the first few days. Now it's mostly gone, like 90%. I know this sounds pretty weird, but other people have noticed the same thing with Fina, I found others describing the ball ache on reddit.

Once again, I'm not trying to discredit you Janey, I'm just pointing out that every person is different, I hope you don't mind :)
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I get that but there's no way to prove that something isn't a placebo to others or to ourselves.
 
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Solxama

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JaneyElizabeth said:
I get that but there's no way to prove that something isn't a placebo to others or to ourselves.
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That's why I subscribe to the idea that every person's reaction to medication may be different, to not discard anybody's experiences. And if a lot of these experiences correlate, then we got evidence that something is definitely not just in somebody's head, and such effects then get written down, for example in the insert leaflet of a given medication.

As for me, I am not afraid to admit that some of the emotional effects are most likely placebo, as the fact that I'm doing something real about my hair loss is already making me much happier. But some effects are 100% real, for example the lower libido is very common according to the leaflet, and I can see my body hair regrowing slower with my own eyes. I am also pretty convinced that the ball ache was something to do with hormone levels adjusting, due to the reasons I specified in my last post.
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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Solxama said:
That's why I subscribe to the idea that every person's reaction to medication maybe different, to not discard anybody's experiences. And if a lot of these experiences correlate, then we got evidence that something is definitely not just in somebody's head, and such effects then get written down, for example in the insert leaflet of a given medication.

As for me, I am not afraid to admit that some of the emotional effects are most likely placebo, as the fact that I'm doing something real about my hair loss is already making me much happier. But some effects are 100% real, for example the lower libido is very common according to the leaflet, and I can see my body hair regrowing slower with my own eyes. I am also pretty convinced that the ball ache was something to do with hormone levels adjusting, due to the reasons I specified in my last post.
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It raises testosterone levels.
 
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Solxama

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JaneyElizabeth said:
It raises testosterone levels.
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Yeah, and that combined with my not used to working much during the last two years balls probably caused them to hurt lol. Testosterone is still a Androgen, so I'm not thrilled of it going up, but at least the worst, useless sh*t ever - DHT is much lower in my system. Before I go to the UK next week I will taking one more hormone blood test, and I will also test DHT in this one, just to be sure Fina is doing it's job properly.
 
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