Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[partysnacks]

The derma-rolling thing is interesting. I always had a cowlick in front until I started losing my hair. It sort of looks like the cowlick is coming back but micro-needling can actually alter collage patterns that are irregular like cellulite--love my cellulite! A cowlick is that, an irregular collagen pattern that disrupts the hair above it.

That's so cool - I've never seen anyone make this connection. I have a cowlick on my hairline that's always been a thorn in my side. Let us know if microneedling changes yours!

 

[NickGardner0651]

Janey, how would the estrogel compare to oral estradiol in terms of concentration? If I am starting with 1mg Estradiol would application of the gel bring me closer to 2mg due to systemic absorption?

 

[Norwoody]

Maybe you could explain the importance of half-lives and molecular weight and why you think that these factors might be pertinent. My high school chemistry is fading from mind but that would be a real contribution to all of the expertise that we have recourse to on here. Very clever screen name.

Thanks lol. The name just popped into my head for some reason. There's definitely a lot of people on these forums that are way smarter than I am, you are for sure, especially with hormonal expertise.

Half lives, in a practical sense, refer to how long the drug is in the system. For example, oral minoxidil has a half life of approximately 4 hours. This means that if you took, say, 10mg at 8AM, approximately half of that (5mg) would be in your system at 12PM. Then 2.5mg still at 4PM. I've read that usually 5-7 half lives is the point where it clears. So 4 hours X 5 half lives = about 20 hours in your system. So if you are taking a drug with a substantially longer half life, like dutasteride, which has a phenomenal half life of 4-5 weeks, you really don't need to take it very frequently - caveat - it should be noted that the drug first needs to reach a steady-state before it lasts that long in the system. This is why many will start a "loading phase" of duta of around 2.5mg daily for a week or two, then take it only a couple times a week. But, theoretically, once you are loaded into that steady state, you could take it once every week or longer and maintain the same serum concentration. A while back I read somewhere in the forums about dutasteride being used topically say once a week or once a month and there was some study showing it being nearly as effective as if applied more frequently. Also, most compounds will have a substantially longer half when applied topically. For example, topical minoxidil has a half life of 22 hours, hence why good results can be realized by using it once daily. It still will likely be more effective twice daily though, as the concentration will be doubled (5% twice a day is the same amount as 10% once a day) and the drug will remain more steady in the system the more frequently it is applied. All this being said, just because a drug is no longer in the bloodstream, that doesn't mean that the effects of it do not last longer (finasteride being a prime example with a half life of only 5-6 hours, but once it reaches a steady state, it takes a few weeks for DHT to return to normal).

Molecular weight helps us to understand how well the given substance absorbs. Generally, the smaller it is the more systemic it will go. Minoxidil is around 200g/mol, possessing one of the lowest molecular weights of all of the hair loss topicals, thus it absorbs well into the scalp compared to something like dutasteride which has a molecular weight of over 500g/mol. So although duta has a long half life, the molecular weight is going to make it less potent (but also less systemic which is advantageous for those seeking to avoid that).

As Murkey pointed out, finding the right balance is complex.

Dermarolling/needling etc is also going to affect the penetration and how systemic these things go. There's different philosophies on this too, the method of needling, as well as the frequency/intensity. Most do a weekly wound, but then there's people like Somebody Alex who got amazing results from just a very light daily roll without any bleeding at all. So customizing/optimizing these methods will depend on what substances you're using.

It's impossible to find a perfect formula, but my philosophy is to try to find at least some pieces in the equation that fit most closely to one's specific goals and their unique individual characteristics. A lot of it is simply going to be experimentation, trial and error, and theorizing. There is no way around it when the only thing that matters is the outcomes. There is so much statistical data out there - which is important, and it's interesting to delve into the complexities of such - but at the end of the day it can be overwhelming, distracting, and even downright depressing to not have a simple cure in the palm of our hands like we do for a number of deadly diseases. We simply have to give some things our best guess and just test it out. Anyways, I'm rambling now so I digress.

The only problem I see is the estradiol having a light Dalton weight as although it absorbs very well it won't hang around where we really need it( in the scalp) that's why it's preferable in liposomal form. I have noticed that the AllVia bi-estro is liposomal so you may get away with using less often. The half life may well apply to the whole body effect.
I also found RU went systemic rather quickly too. I didn't really have an issue with application of RU as it dried quickly and wasn't visible after 5 mins. So you could stack if time is an issue.

Good info, thanks!

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Thanks lol. The name just popped into my head for some reason. There's definitely a lot of people on these forums that are way smarter than I am, you are for sure, especially with hormonal expertise.

Half lives, in a practical sense, refer to how long the drug is in the system. For example, oral minoxidil has a half life of approximately 4 hours. This means that if you took, say, 10mg at 8AM, approximately half of that (5mg) would be in your system at 12PM. Then 2.5mg still at 4PM. I've read that usually 5-7 half lives is the point where it clears. So 4 hours X 5 half lives = about 20 hours in your system. So if you are taking a drug with a substantially longer half life, like dutasteride, which has a phenomenal half life of 4-5 weeks, you really don't need to take it very frequently - caveat - it should be noted that the drug first needs to reach a steady-state before it lasts that long in the system. This is why many will start a "loading phase" of duta of around 2.5mg daily for a week or two, then take it only a couple times a week. But, theoretically, once you are loaded into that steady state, you could take it once every week or longer and maintain the same serum concentration. A while back I read somewhere in the forums about dutasteride being used topically say once a week or once a month and there was some study showing it being nearly as effective as if applied more frequently. Also, most compounds will have a substantially longer half when applied topically. For example, topical minoxidil has a half life of 22 hours, hence why good results can be realized by using it once daily. It still will likely be more effective twice daily though, as the concentration will be doubled (5% twice a day is the same amount as 10% once a day) and the drug will remain more steady in the system the more frequently it is applied. All this being said, just because a drug is no longer in the bloodstream, that doesn't mean that the effects of it do not last longer (finasteride being a prime example with a half life of only 5-6 hours, but once it reaches a steady state, it takes a few weeks for DHT to return to normal).

Molecular weight helps us to understand how well the given substance absorbs. Generally, the smaller it is the more systemic it will go. Minoxidil is around 200g/mol, possessing one of the lowest molecular weights of all of the hair loss topicals, thus it absorbs well into the scalp compared to something like dutasteride which has a molecular weight of over 500g/mol. So although duta has a long half life, the molecular weight is going to make it less potent (but also less systemic which is advantageous for those seeking to avoid that).

As Murkey pointed out, finding the right balance is complex.

Dermarolling/needling etc is also going to affect the penetration and how systemic these things go. There's different philosophies on this too, the method of needling, as well as the frequency/intensity. Most do a weekly wound, but then there's people like Somebody Alex who got amazing results from just a very light daily roll without any bleeding at all. So customizing/optimizing these methods will depend on what substances you're using.

It's impossible to find a perfect formula, but my philosophy is to try to find at least some pieces in the equation that fit most closely to one's specific goals and their unique individual characteristics. A lot of it is simply going to be experimentation, trial and error, and theorizing. There is no way around it when the only thing that matters is the outcomes. There is so much statistical data out there - which is important, and it's interesting to delve into the complexities of such - but at the end of the day it can be overwhelming, distracting, and even downright depressing to not have a simple cure in the palm of our hands like we do for a number of deadly diseases. We simply have to give some things our best guess and just test it out. Anyways, I'm rambling now so I digress.


Good info, thanks!

One of the strange benefits of all of the purported sides of reductase inhibitors is that guys have studied them to death in terms of dosage and half-life so as to be able to take the least amount needed to be effective. Some of that knowledge carries over to the other meds like RU and the flutamide-based med from the C.R. It would be interesting to know the absorption of Estrogel, all three Life Flo products, and also Premarin cream. Would these stats be in the package inserts and would they be relevant? Then we have genital skin which a recent study shows to be five times more efficient in terms of systemic estradiol levels.

 

[Murkey Thumb]

One of the strange benefits of all of the purported sides of reductase inhibitors is that guys have studied them to death in terms of dosage and half-life so as to be able to take the least amount needed to be effective. Some of that knowledge carries over to the other meds like RU and the flutamide-based med from the C.R. It would be interesting to know the absorption of Estrogel, all three Life Flo products, and also Premarin cream. Would these stats be in the package inserts and would they be relevant? Then we have genital skin which a recent study shows to be five times more efficient in terms of systemic estradiol levels.

Like JaneyElizabeth I have been on different forums and tried multiple treatments over 20 years with little results. I have literally tried every vitamin and experimental treatment going, and I have done it properly; normally I will stay on a treatment for 12 months. The only thing that slightly worked for me was Finasteride and a 10% minoxidil solution but it was too harsh and expensive to continue for a long period of time. Finasteride has negative effects on my mood, memory and libido; the minoxidil made me look older very quickly so I stopped both after a year but carried on with 5% foam and RU hoping for at least maintenance. It worked for a while but the RU made me feel unwell with palpatations and heart burn(I also didn't like the fact I was buying it from unlicensed labs).

I then decided to give Brotzu & 5% minoxidil a go (after the hype)and whilst I actually liked the cooling feeling of Brotzu it soon became clear it was not strong enough or contain enough S-equol to have a positive affect. It is after all a cosmetic rather then a treatment but it did get me thinking that the approach was correct just poorly executed.

When I saw this thread and the success Bridgeburn was having it became obvious to me that an approach which could give a targeted, topical, liposome estrogen delivery then we would effectively have a cure. I don't think we are there yet but by experimenting with low doses may give us the insights into perfecting a rudimentary stack.

I'm very impressed with youthful appearance of both Bridgeburn and Janey(they both look much younger than they actually are). However I have no desire to feminise and growing breast tissues is a definite line in the sand for me. We could really do with a friendly chemist who is familiar with liposomal delivery methods to help negate as many side effects as possible. Most things can be compounded we just need to find the correct formula.

 

[Analogies]

10 months maintenance on Dutasteride 0.5mg temples have degraded a little since but the rest seems to be doing fine.

Why not add RU to you regime to ensure it stays? Also, violate nail polish? Guess she doesn’t mind ‍

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Why not add RU to you regime to ensure it stays? Also, violate nail polish? Guess she doesn’t mind ‍

We have had only one, so far, MtF make a noisy exit, most of which I was able to delete because we eschew PC here and I do my best to remember who's MtF and who's not, but as we grow the thread again, we all have to not expect people to always remember our pronouns and some of us are non-binary or androgynous so anything anyone wants to use an an adornment, it's copacetic. Noah is an individual who regardless of gender is singularly attractive and who is doing probably the most important research of all for cis-guys: crossing back and whether maintenance is possible that way. Welcome and I hope that you will hang out and enjoy and get the benefit of all the interesting things that folks on this thread are doing. I doubt there is any other site on the internet proving that recoveries from complete baldness are possible for anybody.

 

[franzliszt]

Well said Janey. Noah, you, and a few others are a perfect addition to the HRT team. I have said this before and I am going to say this again, I show my utmost love and respect to you guys. Thanks @Itsnoahkennedy for your active and constant hair updates. I do really mean my gratitude. You are just making this community far greater and better and inching our ways closer to a cure. Thank you again Noah. You rock man. You're my idol bro!

It is a nice little community we have here.

 

[ReturnOfExtreme]

Ever since increasing my estradiol dosage to 4mg/day, my skin has become quite dry again, and my hair has become drier. I do believe 2mg/day of E (once daily) is not enough to suppress T significantly (100 ng/dL and below) from long-term bicalutamide usage. However, 2mg/day but split into two doses (1mg in the morning and 1mg at night) should be able to suppress T from long-term bicalutamide usage due to more consistent levels.

This morning, I did panic because I thought I had lost all my hair during my sleep due to my hair being dry and bed-stricken, but after brushing my hair it was normal again. I should start applying a moisturising product into my hair daily, moisturising but not heavy of course.

 

[NickGardner0651]

Well, tonight is derma-rolling night, not my favorite. My device is probably a bit deeper than what most of you are using, at 2.0 mm. It would be great if people recounted their derma-rolling experiences and what needles they use. I have used them all and they do dull fast. This is the highest gauge I have used and in some ways it hurts more and in some ways less. Since I have some scarring, I probably need to use more pressure than I would like to but eh, no pain, no gain. And you might notice a couple of things in the background that I recommend using on micro-needling day.

Janey, have you tried using a dermapen? Supposedly it works better by going directly in and out of the skin channels compared to the rolling which causes diagonal scarring. I've seen a lot of good before and after pictures from the roller/pen and think if you are consistent with it, you will reap the benefits in conjunction with a solid anti-androgen/estrogen regimen.

 

[NickGardner0651]

Do they dull? Because my others are all a bit dull except the 2.0 mm. The good thing about the 2.0 mm is that it gets caught in longer hair much less, so I do recommend this gauge who folks who still have substantial hair.

So, yes, I will get a derma-pen and let you guys know what I think. I could use some feedback if any of you have thoughts on the best value here:

Amazon.com : derma-pen

Thank you, Nicholas.

To my knowledge the electric "medical grade" ones do not dull. They may be a bit pricey but if it is something you are going to continue to use for years than I think it is worth the investment. The derma pen or functions as a way of repairing tissue and increasing blood flow to the scalp. If DHT chokes the blood supply of follicles aka "miniturization" Something that can increase it is something to further look into. If DHT is reduced significantly or completely using AA and Estrogen I think that derma rolling/pen will have more of a positive impact on hair growth, just some food for thought.

 

[Ephemeral-Kitten]

We have had only one, so far, MtF make a noisy exit, most of which I was able to delete because we eschew PC here and I do my best to remember who's MtF and who's not, but as we grow the thread again, we all have to not expect people to always remember our pronouns and some of us are non-binary or androgynous so anything anyone wants to use an an adornment, it's copacetic.

I don't think anyone cares too much, but it is of course amusing when someone uses antonyms such as cis and trans as synonyms ^.-

 

[Ephemeral-Kitten]

Ultimately, whether breast growth is insignificant or quite noticeable, a male has to make his decision about fear and tolerance of first gyno and then bouncing boobs, which are rare in that transgender females average a U.S. double AA cup which is quite small.

Trans women do usually have small breasts, however that study uses different measurements than are typically used to determine US cup sizes. The study said: <AAA (<8 cm), AAA (8-10 cm), AA (10-12 cm), A (12-14 cm), B (14-16 cm), C (18-18 cm), D (18-20 cm), >D (>20 cm). While for US cup size measurements, the typical standard is 1 inch bust/underbust delta between sizes. Since 1 inch is 2.54 cm, we can see the outcomes will be very different.

For example, if I use US measurements I get this result: https://www.calculator.net/bra-size...nch&framesize=31&framesizeunit=inch&x=37&y=18

No way am I 32D lol, and it's not because of my ribcage which is quite small for my height (within cis female median range). I'm probably more accurately a small B or large A, but as you can see cup sizes are almost meaningless because no one can agree on a standard.

 

[franzliszt]

Anyone with the handle Franz Liszt is certain to be cultured and refined and I have really enjoyed your being so forthcoming in your posts.

I always wonder about the temporal element in terms of when different folks are on.

Any Aussies or Kiwis or folks from the former expanses of British India?

I speak pretty good French, Spanish and Portuguese so anyone with a question and not comfortable writing in English, please post. We used to have a guy from Spain on here who always posted in Spanish and it was kind of hilarious because nobody knew what he was saying.

I too enjoy your posts, they're often philosphical and very well written. I prefer chopin (there's more depth in his music), but Liszt was more known for his hair.

 

[franzliszt]

For some reason I seem to masculinize on higher doses of E2 injections, only to feminize once my levels drop back down. I know this is the case, after I injected 12mg of Lena's EV the hair loss, rough skin, body odour and libido continue, only after day 9 did my skin become smooth and the scalp inflammation subside. Interestingly, A spike in E2 can cause the pituitary gland to release a surge of luteinizing hormone, which can stimluate etstosterone production. Maybe stable high E2 levels are the key?

 

[franzliszt]

Oscar Wilde had incredibly good hair similar to Jeff Bridge's perhaps. Bridge's had two movies where he had long glorious hair that I saw, King Kong 1976 and Against All Odds in 1983. Beethoven had great hair. This article is interesting in that his hair might have been moorish not that it matters as he was the greatest composer of all time according to Schroeder, me and several billion others:

FEATURE | Was Beethoven Black?

Was Beethoven Black? The contention seems to come up in social media every few years, sparking debate and deeper questions about culture and race.

www.ludwig-van.com

Beethoven had a lot of anguish in his life that shaped his music, the early death of his mother was particularly impactful, I can only imagine a dark complexion during this period would have only added to the anguish. I wouldn't say he was the greatest (just my opinion), but that he was one of the greatest, not only in his own music, but the composers he inspired (liszt, schubert, Brahms etc).

 

[Analogies]

Am I the only one who feels JaneyElizabeth has derailed a perfectly good thread with a bombardment of irrelevant posts? It’s like watching someone talk to themselves on here now.
RIP exploring the hormonal life...

 

[Hair We Go Go]

Am I the only one who feels JaneyElizabeth has derailed a perfectly good thread with a bombardment of irrelevant posts? It’s like watching someone talk to themselves on here now.
RIP exploring the hormonal life...

You aren't the only one that feels this way.

 

[tato123]

I thought we were among friends, and friends make a point of watching all sides of their companions, no judgment. I agree that sometimes there are people who go over the point, but it is undeniable how much @JaneyElizabeth added to this conversation, unlike most who come here and only get information, the guy comes has the courage to put his face on helping everyone and guys speak bad is still bad .

 

[TDE97]

Just wondering, are there people here who had reflex androgenicity from finastreide found success when using estrogen either topical/orally?