Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

Androgenic Alpaca

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Yes I believe it is the raphe that I am describing. I could have sworn that I read somewhere that estrogen can cause hyperpigmentation and darkening of the raphe, but I could be completely wrong on that
now that I know the correct word for this, I've found reports on reddit from several trans women saying that HRT darkened their raphe.

I think that I'm experiencing this as well, so estriol is clearly doing something

or maybe my raphe has always looked like that and I'm now just giving my balls closer scrutiny
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Yeah I agree with this 100% and it goes with some of what Janey was saying above. Whatever your choice of therapy, you got to stick with it to see results. Switching between AAs every two months will probably make your hair even worse than you started. Hair growth cycles take a long time.

This is why I'm going to wait a few months before I make any further changes to my regimen now that I've settled into one that I'm happy with. I'll re-evaluate next spring to see if I want to upgrade to stronger stuff.
You have a significant stack of things in your regimen that I haven't used and know not much about. That would be great if you had time to do an overview of the more "extreme" ones like oral minoxidil and some of the others like stymoxidine (spelling).
 

JaneyElizabeth

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now that I know the correct word for this, I've found reports on reddit from several trans women saying that HRT darkened their raphe.

I think that I'm experiencing this as well, so estriol is clearly doing something

or maybe my raphe has always looked like that and I'm now just giving my balls closer scrutiny
I noticed it and actually researched ano-genital changes among MtFs during HRT but I came up blank. Lol, I still like chicks and Penthouse made its name back in the 70's and 80's with pics of this region and that was the first time that I noticed the differences butI had no idea that it had a name or anything. p**rn actual serves useful socialization purposes when not a fixative compulsion.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Thats the only pic I found. I beg to disagree with your view on the pic. 45 years of balding to even regrow mid size vellus hairs off one drug is more than impressive.

Had he combined with E2, different story all around.

I know of a man who went from Norwood 7 - Norwood 2 in 12 months without using drugs. His name was princessrambo, a primitive legend in this forum. He megadosed on supplements (one of them being soy isoflavones), dermarolled, and DTed as far as I can remember.

He looked at hair loss from the modulation standpoint (IGF-1, FGF-7, PGE2, WNT, VEGF, etc.). Using his "natural" therapy, he in my honest and unbiased opinion tackled most of these modulators to get insane cosmetic regrowth. It is a shame and huge loss that he no longer participates in hairlosstalk.
I know but I am sort of at the 36 year mark since I noticed my crown thinning when I was 19. I posted the pics of when I started HRT DiY back in 2013 and so I don't want to be overconfident because there are plenty of trans folks struggling with hair loss, male and female both but when a person feels a trend, it is pretty definitive I think. The hair is growing back in a specific pattern and that was something that I did not expect. What I mean by this is that the hair parts itself and I really have no say in the matter. It is more so unfolding downward and in from the ears than coming back say in the temples but I posted my pics and I already have way better results than that guy and I was balding, I guess the adjective is, going back to 1984 but never close to bald so I don't want anyone to smack me because I still don't know what all the Norwoods are because that wasn't my experience. Rob talks about being balding and he had like one spot the size of a quarter but it helps his marketing.

I thank you for posting and it was informative but I think that we can all do better than that but that is a piece of the puzzle. I certainly know what it feels like to be on a large-ish dose of spironolactone at roughly 200 mg for about a year and I shed to baldness and those are up in this thread too and posted on My Name is Jane.

I know little to nothing about something that I struggle to spell and don't feel like looking up but you clearly have a facility in discussing prostaglandins so maybe you could write a short piece on that. The last that I looked into it, people were down on prostaglandins as being part of the solution and here, people means Rob at perfecthairhealth.com, whom I trust even though the massages seemed to be a dead-end and of course, I implemented the massages right when my spironolactone shed started and what a mess that was. I made the decision to only derma-roll after in terms of mechanical treatments and I continue using a 2.0mm roller and I am very up on that treatment especially when combined. Anyway, thanks guy.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Thats the only pic I found. I beg to disagree with your view on the pic. 45 years of balding to even regrow mid size vellus hairs off one drug is more than impressive.

Had he combined with E2, different story all around.

I know of a man who went from Norwood 7 - Norwood 2 in 12 months without using drugs. His name was princessrambo, a primitive legend in this forum. He megadosed on supplements (one of them being soy isoflavones), dermarolled, and DTed as far as I can remember.

He looked at hair loss from the modulation standpoint (IGF-1, FGF-7, PGE2, WNT, VEGF, etc.). Using his "natural" therapy, he in my honest and unbiased opinion tackled most of these modulators to get insane cosmetic regrowth. It is a shame and huge loss that he no longer participates in hairlosstalk.
Rob always references some old guy whose scalp got caught on fire at like 80 years of age and somehow, the scalp tension was relieved and apparently the fellow regrew a full head of hair without using anything and that was probably the only time in history that that happened, lol. This is related to derma-rolling as well in terms of healing.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Has anyone here had success with spironolactone? In terms of regrowth. I’ve recently just added it back into my regime.
Anything specific, please ask me.

I actually am not anti-spironolactone but I keep referring to my spironolactone shed. I was reckless in using too much spironolactone too fast and I didn't respect its potency and then I did what I usually advise; I stayed on spironolactone for a year and then I dumped it and again, semi-recklessly by going cold turkey. What I think that I have realized is that the reason for tapering up and down on hormonal meds gradually is to avoid shocking our systems, and to avoid jarring things like hair which appears much more likely to shed due to these AA's than reductase inhibitors not because of any likely incurred detrimental health effects by stopping spironolactone, cypro or bica abruptly.

I have been working on this like mad the last couple of years. The only thing that I wanted from HRT was a decent head of hair and my joke is that Goddess threw in a pretty nice set of tits for free. Because I am so thrilled with my "results" from HRT, I am pretty open about discussing all aspects of it. Hair loss is still painful to me and I have posted pics only because I do expect to get a "win" here. Otherwise, I never would have posted those spironolactone shed pics and I must have scores more because I just held the phone while watching television and I clicked away at all areas of the scalp. I am generally disorganized but I have meticulously kept records since 2015, pictorial and otherwise.

For spironolactone, I would start on 25 mg by biting the 50 mg tabs in half and then I would double it at set intervals that you are comfortable with. For me, it was every six months with Premarin and I was on birth control dosages since I was non-binary. I went from .30 mg to 62.5 mg six months later, then 1.25 mg daily and then 2.5 mg daily. At that point, I dumped spironolactone and stopped the Premarin and I decided to finally hit targets since I wasn't going to "stall my breast growth" and I was convinced that hitting targets was necessary for explosive growth although I saw little improvements that no one else noticed without coming close to hitting targets but it wasn't like the below the neck feminization and it was going to take 50 years more at the improvement rate that I was seeing.

This little article/study was influential in my trying spironolactone and then influential in convincing me to drop it and go estradiol only while meeting adult female targets finally. It's only one person and a couple of pages, but the authors articulated a pattern to success that made sense to me and I still rely on this article and post it as a reference:

 
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JaneyElizabeth

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FYI - tried this on one of my temples. I took a skewer burned it and immediately placed it on the edge of my right temple. Held it for about 5 secs. I burned myself in that area pretty bad but nothing to the extent of a third degree burn or anything that required medical attention.

Fast forward 3.5 years... Not a single hair grew in that area. See my attached pics. Maybe no regrowth because the severity of the burn was less compared to the 80 year old BBQ man? Have no clue.
I know there was something about the burning element that comes up in some of the micro-needling literature if I recall correctly. But dude, I lost indirectly myself over my quest for hair which was completely intertwined with my gender issues and I had no idea how to come out and put my non-HRT life into shambles; another guy castrated himself who was on here for a while. Others have had some issues, I think. Two or three of the influential folks who posted have been banned and I don't want to rev up any sort of, I don't know--Goddess knows; maybe we all want this too much. My goal was to help create new interest because HRT saved my life and rejuvenated me and I do regard the expression of the divine in the feminine; I felt called to get into an HRT program after prayer of a sort or revelation but Goddess knows; I don't know.

I get excellent face to face and now zoom care several times a month and I receive this psychological care as part of my HRT requirements because my insurance requires it.

I did consider going on estrogen at 20 but I went on to get married to a beautiful accomplished cis-female and have several children and my law degree.

Please anyone, hair is not worth "extreme" measures and I am going to stop referring to the thread that way and maybe the name of the thread is simply inappropriate as the founder clearly articulated although not seriously, but still he articulated that life without hair is not worth living and this is not true.

I am at the point of seeing my crown fill in--I micro-needled tonight and hopefully near my dream of restoration and still I look better in this wig than I am likely to ever look with my own hair given that I am 56 years old because now it won't be a coverage issue but it still will be a volume issue. My wig feels great; warm in the winter and it moves and blows and I never ever would have worn a toupee and I only donned the wig once I verified this past February that my crew cut was filling in. Makes no sense, I know but otherwise in my mind, I would have been cheating the brethren; if I have my own hair, then that made it alright to wear, sigh.

The wig experience is much better than I ever would have thought and I never, ever considered the hair club after one visit but things are better now.

I counsel people on how to obtain DIY hormonal medications but only if they don't have access to a doctor or clinic or live in a country where it is dangerous to be trans but otherwise, I think that it might be psychologically dangerous for people to do this, ingest powerful hormonal medications when not under medical care/supervision, gatekeepers or not.

I have no medical credentials so anything that I say or have said should be considered as nothing more than informed opinion by a person with a mind that catalogs virtually everything and can recall it at will.

I appreciate the forthrightness and maybe we needed to hear that so thank you. It was pertinent to my comment and to the stresses we all feel.

But testosterone is controlled for a reason; it is what drives life but it is also a powerful medication that changes a person and fills the world with aggression. I assume that estrogen is benign relatively and it is, but still let's remember Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde. Hormones are serious business and there is no doubt in my mind, none, that they fundamentally change a person when used for extended periods and that's sort of the point. I sought this because I didn't want to be subjected to testosterone any longer. It was ruining my life and I won't go into how and why but you guys can imagine. Maybe this just isn't for cis-folks fundamentally.

Anybody can contact me at any time if they feel that things are more than they can handle; they are for me at times but I have my weekly Zoom session with my therapist and a monthly one with my psychiatrist and many of us are isolated by Covid19 and it's been a long hard slog of a year unlike any other for any of us. Let's stay safe and healthy and discuss reasonable expectations. Thanks for sharing that; I know that it was heartfelt.

Goddess bless.
 
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Abomination

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We know from that patent that even estriol is enough to stop hair loss and get some improvement, so I am not surprised you are able to get significant regrowth on estradiol alone. I've recently added it to my regimen, hoping that the sides will be delayed/less severe since I'm not on any oral AA. I'm only on topical dutasteride and RU.
Where do you pick your RU? I've heard some horror stories, like people having chest pain and so on. The drug goes systemic and can bind on androgen receptors of your heart, not fun.

Also: Im worried about up regulation of the androgen receptors long term due constantly trying to block them, which would mean eventually going bald faster, which is why im not sold out on RU/CB as well.
 

Rysteve93

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Will respect, @JaneyElizabeth how sure are you it was spironolactone that caused your shed? You were consuming several things at the same time. No doubt all or most of them are shifting your hormone profile. In saying this.. you do know your body better than me, just a thought.

previously I used spironolactone for 2 months jumping every other week to my eventual dose of 200mg but I got paranoid about potassium levels, since stopping I have sorted my diet to restart. Current on 100mg every day.

your insight to these hormones are some what helpful in terms of experience of hair loss/ hair growth.. thanks for sharing this with all of us.

did you get growth from Estradiol?

AA, alpha 5 inhibitor and e2 seem to have grown succinct amount of hair for several people who have “caught it at the right time”.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Will respect, @JaneyElizabeth how sure are you it was spironolactone that caused your shed? You were consuming several things at the same time. No doubt all or most of them are shifting your hormone profile. In saying this.. you do know your body better than me, just a thought.

previously I used spironolactone for 2 months jumping every other week to my eventual dose of 200mg but I got paranoid about potassium levels, since stopping I have sorted my diet to restart. Current on 100mg every day.

your insight to these hormones are some what helpful in terms of experience of hair loss/ hair growth.. thanks for sharing this with all of us.

did you get growth from Estradiol?

AA, alpha 5 inhibitor and e2 seem to have grown succinct amount of hair for several people who have “caught it at the right time”.
No, you are absolutely right. I was doing Rob's massages and doing derma-rolling and taking spironolactone and that is a lot to have going on and it was a miserable summer and I was way too sure that a shed wouldn't happen to me. I was actually about to try a wire brush and then it was like, well, boar's hair seems to be yanking it all out anyway.

I thought though that the spironolactone would protect me and it did the opposite perhaps but this is all anecdotal and spironolactone is cheap and works for many folks. I stayed on it a year and for once, I should have probably dumped it when I started having all of the sides last summer but see, I don't believe in sides.... Live and learn. I remember though that the hair seemed like it wanted out/off. I think that it itched and I couldn't keep my hands out of it. It really probably was a "benevolent shed" which term I have trademarked but I must have hope for the future since I have pictures up on my site of the bald head and I wouldn't be able to do that otherwise. I was really proud of myself:

 

pegasus2

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Where do you pick your RU? I've heard some horror stories, like people having chest pain and so on. The drug goes systemic and can bind on androgen receptors of your heart, not fun.

Also: Im worried about up regulation of the androgen receptors long term due constantly trying to block them, which would mean eventually going bald faster, which is why im not sold out on RU/CB as well.
China.

Why is it a problem if it does block androgens in the heart? It should be beneficial since women are less likely to have heart disease.

AR can only upregulate so much, so just increase your dosage. I've never had side effects on RU. People hear some rumor about it, they get anxiety, and then they blame their anxiety symptoms on RU.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Anti-Androgenic Medications: Do They Actually Grow Hair?

Anyone with information related to Anti-Androgens and their purported ability to induce hair regrowth or to significantly improve hair quality in male users, it would be great to hear your basis for this belief or not, or any references purported thereto. Furthermore, a focus on the continuing ability to induce hair growth, not short-run hair growth is of interest. We already know that they can do this temporarily, apparently on a limited fashion so that is of less interest except for pictorial evidence collected over some expanse of time. Any information related to purported synergy of these meds in either trans females or cis-males is, however of interest.

I continue seeking information from anyone prescribed AA's in either a transgender or a cancer context, or a purely hair regrowth context without estrogen or <2mg daily who saw complete, continuing hair restoration. It could be that dosages are not high enough in a pure hair context when used without estrogen or used with marginal amounts of estrogen because you guys keep mentioning upregulation. Having read the article on epigenetics, that might be a more likely path.

The idea of switching between AA's to avoid upregulation is concerning to me in terms of both short-run and long-run health effects especially in a male non-disease context where it is difficult to see how this could possibly be beneficial to health. It's also of very little value to others without more because as you guys know, the vast majority of males are not going to use these meds if they refuse to use finasteride. This is the fact that unifies all folks interested in this thread, regardless of self-designation.

As I consider this, the notion of constantly using either AA's or therapeutic amounts of estrogen puts the user entirely in a transgender/dual hormonal context. I think that it might be beneficial to use transgender more so only in the context related to (I am going to get in trouble here) a life-style choice. There is not much evidence to my knowledge that having such in-between hormonal levels makes a person more inclined to becoming transgender. Then again, some of the anti-finasteride folks could claim that using finasteride "turned me transgender". The only evidence related to this in my knowledge has to do with there being a slight to moderate increase by transgender females in terms of their interest in sexual relations with cis-males. Note, however, primarily among older transgender females, any aspect of changing sexual preference is either absent or not very strong.
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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No, you are absolutely right. I was doing Rob's massages and doing derma-rolling and taking spironolactone and that is a lot to have going on and it was a miserable summer and I was way too sure that a shed wouldn't happen to me. I was actually about to try a wire brush and then it was like, well, boar's hair seems to be yanking it all out anyway.

I thought though that the spironolactone would protect me and it did the opposite perhaps but this is all anecdotal and spironolactone is cheap and works for many folks. I stayed on it a year and for once, I should have probably dumped it when I started having all of the sides last summer but see, I don't believe in sides.... Live and learn. I remember though that the hair seemed like it wanted out/off. I think that it itched and I couldn't keep my hands out of it. It really probably was a "benevolent shed" which term I have trademarked but I must have hope for the future since I have pictures up on my site of the bald head and I wouldn't be able to do that otherwise. I was really proud of myself:

I put up some representative pics and one entitled "shed of dubious cause".
 

John Difool

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I didn't get baseline numbers so it won't be very interesting. All I'm concerned with is if I see breast development.

Interesting fact, Asians get their different skin color from their Eastern diet. It has nothing to do with having different genes. Also, blue eyes are caused by diets high in animal fats and dairy. All humans actually have the same genes, and our differences all come down to our lifestyle choices.
Is having bad genes a myth?
 
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