Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

JaneyElizabeth

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Hey, how to use progesterone rectally? Do I need to buy vaginal, oral or rectal capsules? Because I have only oral and vaginal capsules in pharmacies.
MtFs following the Powers program use prometrium up the ***. Orally, prometrium is mostly lost on first pass through the liver. I am not out for rectal and there isn't any indication that doing so makes the breasts larger. For hair, eh, I don't know but that isn't one that I hear a lot about.
 

phoenix01

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this thread is the biggest load of sh*t in hairlosstalk history, as far as I know OP (bridgeburn) self-identifies as trans/female.

bridgeburn needs to stop with the bullshit and come out of the closet, your lame-*** excuse "I took ungodly amounts of estrogen to salvage my hair" is no longer valid
 

JaneyElizabeth

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this thread is the biggest load of sh*t in hairlosstalk history, as far as I know OP (bridgeburn) self-identifies as trans/female.

bridgeburn needs to stop with the bullshit and come out of the closet, your lame-*** excuse "I took ungodly amounts of estrogen to salvage my hair" is no longer valid
I don't think that he comes around anymore but in essence, he did two years of research for us as to what could work depending upon the level of aversion to risk. I have read the entire thread and my recollection is that he identified as male in terms of pronouns all throughout but did come to see himself as agender by the end.

He was also using oral minoxidil and he used various AA's, all three of the most well known, meaning bicalutamide, spironolactone and cyproterone acetate. He freely admitted significant breast growth as do I, which is a bit strange given that most MtFs experience little to no breast expansion. He wasn't using a particularly large amount of estrogen, however. I think he was at 6 mg at the end of his part of the thread. He feminized incredibly also, compared to what I have seen in other adult MtFs without surgery or other facial treatments.
 

Marky

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I never thought about estriol pills. Is Life-Flo too expensive? Or do you not like the carrier? The problem with adding progesterone and I did too is it is impossible to verify if it is doing anything without testing and even then you have to put it in the backdoor or maybe inject it. I hear some good things about its effects on breasts, face and scalp but everything always comes back to estrogen for hair and except for boobs, for most MtF things.

This is sort of my job now meaning the courts are still lagging so I apply estrogel maybe ten times a day. I use it as a hair tonic like the old Vitalis--boy, those disappeared--and I also use it on the normal areas of interest.

One thing that I might point out to guys is that look at the area in front of your ears. Even guys with full coverage tend to have far less hair here than women and that is sort of part of the female hairline even though it is vertical in orientation. That's why it can be so hard to verify one's own progress. A lot of guys like Shia Leboeff (sp) have decent hair on top but the hair in front of the ears is distracting. Yes, that is how much of a perfectionist I am but I hate jagged "hairlines" in front of the ears and many, many males have this. So, I put estrogel especially where the sideburns meet the wispy hair coming down from the hairline. That can fill in so gradually that you can tell that things are better but it is hard to articulate because the temples still lag.
You think applying Egel on the hairline & face is more effective than other body parts?
 

Gergely

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this thread is the biggest load of sh*t in hairlosstalk history, as far as I know OP (bridgeburn) self-identifies as trans/female.

bridgeburn needs to stop with the bullshit and come out of the closet, your lame-*** excuse "I took ungodly amounts of estrogen to salvage my hair" is no longer valid
How is this relevant in terms of results? Obviously if you care about erectile function or having a family, you should never do this.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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You think applying Egel on the hairline & face is more effective than other body parts?
Effective for regrowth? I think that there is sufficient evidence that this accelerates the process via localized and systemic effects but most MtFs don't do this, put it in their hair. They get hair regrowth from oral or parenteral ingestion. What I am trying to do is find the target points related to E and T, needed to facilitate scalp hair regrowth as opposed to effects below the neck which came easily and rapidly for me. But hair regrowth appears to require much higher serum levels of estradiol.

Now in terms of efficiency related to obtaining higher levels of E, the ingestion point most efficient is via genital tissue so if money is a concern, as it often is for us, then applying Estrogel to the scrotum is the way to go.
 

phoenix01

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I don't think that he comes around anymore but in essence, he did two years of research for us as to what could work depending upon the level of aversion to risk. I have read the entire thread and my recollection is that he identified as male in terms of pronouns all throughout but did come to see himself as agender by the end.

He was also using oral minoxidil and he used various AA's, all three of the most well known, meaning bicalutamide, spironolactone and cyproterone acetate. He freely admitted significant breast growth as do I, which is a bit strange given that most MtFs experience little to no breast expansion. He wasn't using a particularly large amount of estrogen, however. I think he was at 6 mg at the end of his part of the thread. He feminized incredibly also, compared to what I have seen in other adult MtFs without surgery or other facial treatments.

forget what he said here, he came out as trans/female on the now defunct unofficial HairLossTalk discord channel
 

JaneyElizabeth

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forget what he said here, he came out as trans/female on the now defunct unofficial HairLossTalk discord channel
Obviously, that doesn't matter to me. But the idea of non-binary transgender has changed the way that people self-identify. Like me, he preferred women as preference often is not tied to feminization but someone could conceivably argue that he and I made ourselves trans by trying estrogen to begin with and then became enchanted with the experience.

Life under estrogen's regime is simply more pleasant to me and I had other issues that led me to identify as non-binary so I don't believe that HRT leads one to become transgender in the sense of post hoc ergo prompter hoc.
 
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phoenix01

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Obviously, that doesn't matter to me. But the idea of non-binary transgender has changed the way that people self-identify. Like me, he preferred women as preference often is not tied to feminization but someone could conceivably argue that he and I made ourselves trans by trying estrogen to begin with and then became enchanted with the experience.

like I said before, this thread is pure horse-sh*t. OP is being deceptive and hiding behind half-truths, not to mention refusing to disclose his true intentions (transitioning from M t F), therefore the narrative that he/she took; duta, bica, CPA, E, spironolactone, etc.. to save his hair is a LIE
 

Gergely

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like I said before, this thread is pure horse-sh*t. OP is being deceptive and hiding behind half-truths, not to mention refusing to disclose his true intentions (transitioning from M t F), therefore the narrative that he/she took; duta, bica, CPA, E, spironolactone, etc.. to save his hair is a LIE
Could be true, but he/she is more than likely started HRT only to gain hair. What came after... mehh idk
 

JaneyElizabeth

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It seems irrelevant in terms of what the title of this thread is. There are basically two groups, MtFs and non-MtFs interested in what might be called "extreme measures" that would be eschewed by any other males. No one is looking for converts.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Obviously it's not a regimen for cis men. Maybe bridgeburn used his hair as an excuse to transition, this is the first I'm hearing of it. Either way he messed himself up pretty severely. He does look better now than he did before regardless of how he wants to identify.

I wish he would come back and let us know how things are going now. I would like to see a cis man try this, grow back his hair in a few months and then see if he can reverse the feminization and get his sperm back all while keeping the hair.
I don't think that there is much evidence that one cannot regain fertility. I know that they discuss this often on the Will Powers site. In terms of "crossing back" and maintaining on dutasteride, that remains to be seen. I don't know why it wouldn't theoretically work although I would still predict a diminution of quality and a resumption of a male hairline which in itself is probably indicative of hair loss in the front. Then unavoidably, there would be a great diminution in anagen length which is perceived as less thick hair and shorter hair in terms of growth potential. People on the male side never seem to focus on the differences in anagen length in terms of length of the cycle.
 
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pegasus2

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It's probably more effective than topical spironolactone, but nothing compared to oral spironolactone.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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It's probably more effective than topical spironolactone, but nothing compared to oral spironolactone.
He's dissing on bone broth now. Right now I am wondering if anything increases growth rate apart from increases in hair count. I think oral minoxidil might increase growth rate but I can't find a citation to reference.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I used spironolactone for a year and dumped it. I am one who rarely believes in all of these sides but spironolactone can cause fatigue, weakness and lack of focus, i.e. brain fog. I also had a big shed when starting which was something I want to help others avoid. AA's are jarring to the system and slow titration is needed. I went up to 200 mg way too fast. Mann is discussing a large study done with large dosage (200mg) and there was very little regrowth when spironolactone was used without estrogen. I think that AA's can only "restore" hair that has just gone out of cycle but without estrogen, they are pretty eh. He is mentioning Xandrox which was a big deal twenty years ago with spironolactone but it was probably effective for non-responders due to its increased minoxidil percentage.

They main reason that MtFs use AA's is because it can be difficult to reach target levels of T and E, particularly orally but AA's otherwise are not necessary. I am not using one anymore since I have gone up substantially in my estradiol dosage. Here's a study comparing alfatradiol and minoxidil finding minoxidil more effective for females:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17451383/
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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I am not sure how to update our hair regime on here but I am now adding oral minoxidil. @bridgeburn was using 10 mg every other day if I recall correctly but I am not sure why he alternated. My thought is to use 5 mg twice a day. It seems that some on here are using up to 20 mg daily. I seem to be already retaining water which maybe spironolactone would eliminate due to its being a potassium-sparing diuretic.

https://perfecthairhealth.com/oral-minoxidil-best-dose-men/
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Below is a similar thread that petered out, most likely due to Mr. Wolfpac getting substantial gyno with not enough regrowth to make it worth reporting back any longer. "Trannies" seem to have an intuition about what might work due to being on HRT. Many of us switch meds often and many are now eschewing the use of any AA's. When I used to lurk here without commenting, folks were having mad sheds all of the time, and I did on spironolactone. Even for me, it is important to remember that this is high level stuff to begin with and to proceed gingerly. To those with knowledge relating to Serms, it would be great to hear your experiences.

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...-hormones-while-retaining-masculinity.125595/
 

Gergely

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I'm thinking about dropping bica, too bad Ikarus banned himself. Since he was the only one using it while i was around.
The only thing i'm worried about is AR upregulation witch might be a myth
I have been on 50mg bica for 96 days sofar
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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I'm thinking about dropping bica, too bad Ikarus banned himself. Since he was the only one using it while i was around.
The only thing i'm worried about is AR upregulation witch might be a myth
I have been on 50mg bica for 96 days sofar
Equal Rights said:
Use spironolactone or eplerenone, they are diuretics and will flush the water weight out of you and help with dark circles if the water weight is what actually causes them. The extent varies from user to user. I noticed more hair on the face a month in on OM, have yet to see it on the scalp though.
spironolactone?

Yeah, been there, done that. I actually have several unused bottles since I quit using it in May and I am aware of the potassium-sparing diuretic effect. It induces fairly frequent urination and I had to keep an NaCl salt shaker on my night stand because I would crave it so much that I would wake up in the early hours.

The other thing is that since @bridgeburn did this using all three common AA's, I want to try to do it only using estradiol. I am using fairly copious amounts of retin-A on my face and scalp and other areas, AA's are very jarring to the system and many see sheds when beginning them or going off them.

HRT is f'ing great and it is hard to convey just how wonderful it can be for some MtFs. But it is my belief that E2-only is the best way to do it and that for most MtFs, estradiol is all that is needed. Some do, however, need an AA to get to targets and for them, no regrowth might take place without an AA. Because @bridgeburn was ingesting estrogen buccally, that results in an increase of efficiency two to three times compared to swallowing pills. It does not however mean that pill sucking is required to restore hair.

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/exploring-the-hormonal-route-hair-life.109288/page-585

#34
 
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