Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[JaneyElizabeth]

If you use estradiol breast growth is unavoidable.

Question for yall do you think its possible to apply dht or some how upregulate 5ar in the scrotum or penis area with a topical without suppression?

my biggest concern using duta topical isnt serum dht going down. Its penis dht going down. So i figure if i could just apply something down there to counter i would be good to go

I think some of the Powers people do that but I think that I just read that testosterone goes systemic very easily which would make sense since estrogen does. So this might work for non-binary people who want to still "top" but usually those are folks in mixed hormonal environments who don't try to hit female targets but again, for hair regrowth, that seems to be counter-productive. It's Goddess's way of promoting people putting down arms, so to speak. Butterflies are free; hair? not so much.

 

[Solxama]

Hi, Dr. Nick! Simpson's joke. Welcome. Let me read all of this since you write in Janey-style meaning lots of words!

Thank you for your reply Janey

I didn't get the joke at first but I looked it up online. The only Simpson's joke I know is Sneed's Feed and Seed because of a 4chan thing called Sneedposting, it's pretty funny but also a bit annoying when some people do it too much.

1. I doubt that breast growth is avoidable. Most MtF's are small says Janey but there are no guarantees. Pretty much the founder of the thread and I in emulation both experienced quite noticeable breast growth. We/I discuss this a lot because I have been trying to find a way to use estradiol to regrow hair without going systemic and feminizing and it won't work because you have to pass through the breast growth part, which starts all but immediately before you get to the E2 levels that likely regrow hair.

You could try raloxi or tamoxi but word's that they are difficult to work with and outcomes vary so it probably makes sense to just chance the breast growth and if you get it like me, then learn to like it because 100 different MtF's will be insanely jealous of your "results".

Breasts grow on you over time, so to speak, laughs Janey at her own pun.

2. Any bio-identical estradiol, especially parenteral estradiol. You are wrong entirely about minoxidil but that's a common misperception among the young for some reason. To deny yourself the use of oral minoxidil to avoid some chest hair is never going to work. That's what laser removal is for. Hair regrowth is literally so precious that $1,000 for full laser below the neck minus the pubic area is a trifling thing. You have to want this as much as you want to breathe or don't bother. You will just end up frustrated and balder than you were.

3. HRT.cafe but you will have to go through it and see who offers what. I use only Amazon four health.

With respect to your own trans issues, nobody on here cares--it's all copacetic and some of what you say about not wanting to be trans might be offensive to some. Me, very little offends me.

I have coined a term called "just in it for the hair" and that will quench some of your fears. I go by two names and three pronouns but some people on here are very sensitive about pronouns and I think that we try to use their pronouns or when in doubt, use "they" because for transfolks, that's the term you use when you don't know someone's gender assignation or you aren't sure because maybe like me, some of us sort of transition androgynously and I am no different. If I go to trans outings, I struggle some times to know which direction the person is going but for hair regrowth, MtF has nothing to do with gender. It indicates the direction of the meds that you use so MtF HRT applies just as much to the folks "just in it for the hair" as it does to transgender females. There's some baggage in doing this for any XY but if it's not for you, you probably will know fairly quickly because if you can't deal with the gyno/growth issue then what you are attempting won't work.

Anyway as I am inclined to allusions and metaphors:

Come with me if you want to save you hair....

Best and welcome
Janey

1. Yeah, I know gyno is hard to avoid by just going through this thread. Some people on other forums (4chan) apparently use just AAs and Raloxifene for a more "Femboy" look without going full HRT, but I don't know how effective that is in regrowing hair, so I asked here as it's a pretty big trade off, gyno for hair. It seems to be a rule in this world, everything has both wanted and unwanted effects in most aspects of life and what we have to do is to balance them out. I took some more pictures of my hair today and it's pretty tragic, maybe your right and it's best to just risk the gyno, as letting my hair fall out would be an act of hate towards my body, a body that I love and want to care for. Yeah, I got your pun, it made me smile

2. Well I lived with body hair from my late puberty till I started getting rid of it some time ago, so maybe I can swallow having more of it for my hair while using Minoxidil. It's just that I always hated it as it makes a human look like an ape, but I never did anything about it in the past when I was stuck trying to be a "real masculine man", and that didn't go very well for me. Well laser does seem to be an option, I was already thinking about it for some time. Anyway, I have another question for you, do you think that Minoxidil hair dependency is a myth? Some people earlier in this thread think it exists, plus a few people I spoke to in my country seem to think so too, so I'm interested in your opinion about it, maybe I am overreacting.

3. Thank you for the HRT.cafe link , I looked through the site and the prices are pretty good. Some websites linked there ship from Russia, I used to go there quite a lot before covid as my country has a border with Russia, and some of my ancestry is Russian. It's a nice country, although there are some stereotypes about it, in my experience Russians are very friendly people, who are more tolerant and open minded then people in my own country. I used to buy a lot of things there, so I trust Russian products.

About the trans thing, I have no problem with transgender people. It's their life, and they can do whatever they want. I used to hate them, but that's because I didn't understand what they were going through, plus hating on LGBT people is a thing young males do a lot in my country and I was trying to fit in. I don't hate them anymore, it's something I really regret, they are human beings with souls and hating them just for who they are is wrong. When I deconstructed my fake "real man" identity, I had a time I thought I might be trans who tried to repress it, but after a lot of questioning, I don't think so.

As I said, I don't have much of a overall problem with my male body and organs beside a few things, and I don't want to be a girl. In fact gender is not important to me, of course there is male and female sex, and masculine and feminine energies, but gender is a man made concept that I don't really care about. I am a biological male and I don't want to change that, but I don't feel like any gender. I just want to be myself fully, and trying to fit into gender roles again as a girl would be being fake once again, something I want to avoid. I also have a problem with how corporate "elites" and politicians who they control on both the left and right use LGBT issues as a way to set people against each other, to stir up hate and division instead of promoting unity, love, and diversity.

Of course this does not mean I want to invalidate the identities, feelings and experiences of others, so if I do offend any trans person I am sorry. I will try to use the correct pronouns and I promise to be nice to everybody on hairlosstalk

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

For people trying to avoid breast growth, I present the following chart so that you can see just how little estradiol is likely to cause breast growth. Over 1 mg daily appears to be certainly enough to start breast growth. The second issue is that the only way to stop breast growth once it starts is not to titrate downward. You must desist because you can see how low these E2 levels are, so just saying, anyone in fear of developed mammaries, keep a sharp look out or down is it?

Hormone Levels During Normal Puberty in Cisgender Girls

Hormone Levels During Normal Puberty in Cisgender Girls by Aly

transfemscience.org

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I don't agree with all of these but here is a list of things that might happen under HRT:

Second Puberty 101

What to Expect When You're Expecting Boobs

curvyandtrans.com

 

[Solxama]

For people trying to avoid breast growth, I present the following chart so that you can see just how little estradiol is likely to cause breast growth. Over 1 mg daily appears to be certainly enough to start breast growth. The second issue is that the only way to stop breast growth once it starts is not to titrate downward. You must desist because you can see how low these E2 levels are, so just saying, anyone in fear of developed mammaries, keep a sharp look out or down is it?

Hormone Levels During Normal Puberty in Cisgender Girls

Hormone Levels During Normal Puberty in Cisgender Girls by Aly

transfemscience.org

OMG that is a pretty low dose for gyno to start, it really is a trade with these kinds of regimens.

Anyway I had my hormones done not long ago, my total T is about 576 ng/dl, my free T 20.23 pg/ml and my E2 is 23.23 pg/ml. So according to the chart you gave, if I nuked my T levels down to low and started using E, gyno would start pretty fast.

Yeah, it looks like it's a risk that's pretty unavoidable, even with just AAs as they do raise E levels, not as much as HRT but still.

 

[Solxama]

I don't agree with all of these but here is a list of things that might happen under HRT:

Second Puberty 101

What to Expect When You're Expecting Boobs

curvyandtrans.com

Interesting, the emotional stuff I already have for basically all of my life, something like a cute picture can make me cry. I love to watch the sun rising, the beauty of it makes me so emotional and warm inside...

Ok, I'm rambling now, anyway back to the stuff written there, like 90% of it does not bother me at all, the only thing is gyno and some minor body changes (Something I might need to just accept if I do this crazy regimen I'm considering) , although I'm all for some feminization, like softer skin, less body hair and most of all a head full of nice, strong hair (Hopefully)

PS. Lol at the communism thing, I'm already a bit of a commie politically (Yay Eastern Europe) but these days I tend to stay away from politics as it's pretty low vibrational stuff

 

[Solxama]

I don't know where he has been but Almas has been carrying this thread since I started my own but he is similar to you and I think, is planning to have breast or gyno reduction once his hair kicks in. Shhh. He has no baldness at all but we humor him.

Yeah, I've seen his posts earlier in the thread. I can see some similarity between him and me, although he seems to be pretty depressed and bitter, but I really empathize with that, hair loss screws with people's moods and feelings. I won't judge his hair issues, but I can assure you my hair loss is pretty bad.

Almas tried bicaluatamide single-shot and decided it didn't work and so added injections of E2. This is not failure at all. Every time one of us tries something, we have new data points and three years ago or so on here, people were going nuts about trying AA's and then switching all of the time which would cause sheds so then they would give up and that's Addendum B to this. You have to ride out sheds or you are wasting your time. I shed to baldness so I raced off for beard removal because wigs and beards are not a good look and then I put on the wig and rode it out. It's been close to 24 months now and I have all of the relevant pics up here over on my thread and on my blog. I have pics of everything and every body part upon request. There are probably a couple of tasteful breast pics up but that's part of what I consider my duty since things have worked for me.

I have breast pics going back six years so the progression can be established pretty well. I post these so people can actually see worst case scenario which of course in MtF-land is a dream come true....

Janey

That's what I'm thinking of doing at this point, just trying whatever, experimenting etc. If shedding did happen in my case I would ride it out, it can't get much worse then it is now, as there are only two options, either I try to do something radical to save my hair or just give up and go bald and that is something I really want to avoid, so if I have to accept some discomfort on the way, so be it. I could try just Fina/Duta and Minoxidil, or some more natural methods I read about online and have not tried yet, but with my family history and the current state of my hair it would be simply delaying the inevitable. So the choice is simple, either go all in or pretend to be happy with something that I know won't help me get my hair back as it was before I started balding.

 

[Solxama]

You know what, since I already did the first step of setting up an account on this forum and sharing my story, here are some pictures of my hair. I cropped them a bit for privacy reasons but I think they still show how bad it is for a 24 year old guy.

 

[Pls_NW-1]

You know what, since I already did the first step of setting up an account on this forum and sharing my story, here are some pictures of my hair. I cropped them a bit for privacy reasons but I think they still show how bad it is for a 24 year old guy.

This is very bad. I feel ya And I don't think that HRT will do much. Some people on this thread forget that HRT stops in everyone further loss. But good to full regrowth is not guaranteed. Check out some HRT-content-based content creators, they talk sometimes about androgenetic alopecia / male pattern baldness. And it's very often said that by the start of HRT, A.G.A. stops progressing.

You should know that with age dermal papilla cells are getting less and less, they vanish over time. Stem cells are there to bring in some "fresh air" into the hair's house lol. But somehow..., those, "the windows" are blocked. And posters on here suggest that Estrogen is the key for re-activation of that signaling. So no matter what, hair can be brought back, if it weren't for the fibrosis, which sets in a couple of years after loss.

This all is not guaranteed; YMMV.

 

[Solxama]

This is very bad. I feel ya And I don't think that HRT will do much. Some people on this thread forget that HRT stops in everyone further loss. But good to full regrowth is not guaranteed. Check out some HRT-content-based content creators, they talk sometimes about androgenetic alopecia / male pattern baldness. And it's very often said that by the start of HRT, A.G.A. stops progressing.

You should know that with age dermal papilla cells are getting less and less, they vanish over time. Stem cells are there to bring in some "fresh air" into the hair's house lol. But somehow..., those, "the windows" are blocked. And posters on here suggest that Estrogen is the key for re-activation of that signaling. So no matter what, hair can be brought back, if it weren't for the fibrosis, which sets in a couple of years after loss.

This all is not guaranteed; YMMV.

That's why I'm here, I know it's too late for the traditional stuff like Fina/Duta and Minoxidil, even doctors told me it will only delay the inevitable. I am also aware of the dermatological aspects, I try to take care of my scalp by washing my hair a lot, exfoliating and I use a lot of supplements to keep my body healthy. But for hair regrowth in my situation I basically need something nuclear, and this thread looks like the stuff, and if it does not work I will have to learn to live with it, maybe get a transplant if I ever have enough money for it.

I just wish I did something about it earlier, when my balding started. But of course, whenever I spoke to somebody about it I was told to "man up" or I was laughed at, even by my own family. So I did try to "man up", I became toxic, depressed and a very shitty person in general. Now that part of my life is behind me, and my heart aches that I was hurting my body and soul for years, and I threw away my youth for alcohol, video games and a fake personality to gain acceptance from a toxic and hateful environment .

But I can't change the past, so I'm trying to make up for it, and hair loss is one of the things I would really like to reverse, or at least try as much as I can...

 

[Solxama]

And this is how my hair used to look like before it started thinning out, I was 16 at the time this pic was taken.

 

[Pls_NW-1]

That's why I'm here, I know it's too late for the traditional stuff like Fina/Duta and Minoxidil, even doctors told me it will only delay the inevitable. I am also aware of the dermatological aspects, I try to take care of my scalp by washing my hair a lot, exfoliating and I use a lot of supplements to keep my body healthy. But for hair regrowth in my situation I basically need something nuclear, and this thread looks like the stuff, and if it does not work I will have to learn to live with it, maybe get a transplant if I ever have enough money for it.

I just wish I did something about it earlier, when my balding started. But of course, whenever I spoke to somebody about it I was told to "man up" or I was laughed at, even by my own family. So I did try to "man up", I became toxic, depressed and a very shitty person in general. Now that part of my life is behind me, and my heart aches that I was hurting my body and soul for years, and I threw away my youth for alcohol, video games and a fake personality to gain acceptance from a toxic and hateful environment .

But I can't change the past, so I'm trying to make up for it, and hair loss is one of the things I would really like to reverse, or at least try as much as I can...

Well, try out HRT then, if you are ONLY comfortable with some irreversible changes. Playing with hormones is like playing with fire. And male pattern baldness is indeed a result of androgenic action, male sex hormones.

 

[Pls_NW-1]

And this is how my hair used to look like before it started thinning out, I was 16 at the time this pic was taken.

Amazing hair. That drastic change... oh god..

 

[Solxama]

Well, try out HRT then, if you are ONLY comfortable with some irreversible changes. Playing with hormones is like playing with fire. And male pattern baldness is indeed a result of androgenic action, male sex hormones.

I'm going to give myself some time to really think on this and decide what to do. I have a few options, although some of the stuff I've read on this thread is making me seriously consider going in with the strongest regimen I can get my hands on. Before reading this thread I would have not considered something as strong and risky as HRT, but the results some people had from it are really inspiring plus some other effects of it would not be that bad for me. So my options are the following :

1. For a less extreme regimen to avoid some unwanted effects of HRT (Mainly gyno in my case.) I was thinking of trying something like Bica+Duta+Raloxifene for 9-12 months, maybe with Minoxidil but that's something I need to really think about as some things people say about it are disturbing. The minus of this is that it could have little effect on hair, or even negative effects.

2. Full on HRT, If I do this I think I would do something similar to bridgeburns route, AA+E2 topical and maybe Duta to start with. I would also maybe go with higher doses of E as some people say it seems to minimize gyno.

3. Try out a much tamer regimen with Fina/Duta and more natural remedies first, like CBD oil topical (For now I only use oral), Biotin, some other topical oils etc. (This is the least likely option, it may further slow hair loss like the stuff I have been doing for some time, but in the end it will only delay balding and it won't give much regrowth.)

Amazing hair. That drastic change... oh god..

And the worst thing about this is I could have done something much earlier, but instead I behaved like a total idiot. I have nobody to blame but myself especially my ignorance and fear to stand up for myself. I've added one more picture, the one where I first noticed balding has started. I was 17, close to 18 at the time.

PS. Nice avatar, it's very cute I recognized it straight away, although if you think about it the full scene is pretty sad, poor potato girl Sasha. I've seen a few episodes of AOT, but I've never watched the whole series, will have to at some point as it's a bit of a cult classic in Anime and it seems to be good.

 

[KNemo]

@Solxama
You should still go on finasteride and minoxidil + microneedling. It's possible to continue hairloss even with suppressed testosterone and high estrogen probably from local DHT production, finasteride will put a stop to that. Minoxidil does a lot to help hair growth and it's used for women with hairloss as it's a complement to the hair promoting effects of estrogens. Microneedling will enhance minoxidil effects, it's even effective on its own however less so than minoxidil.

 

[Solxama]

@Solxama
You should still go on finasteride and minoxidil + microneedling. It's possible to continue hairloss even with suppressed testosterone and high estrogen probably from local DHT production, finasteride will put a stop to that. Minoxidil does a lot to help hair growth and it's used for women with hairloss as it's a complement to the hair promoting effects of estrogens. Microneedling will enhance minoxidil effects, it's even effective on its own however less so than minoxidil.

Thank you for your insight, KNemo

To be honest Minoxidil has me a bit worried, some people think it might cause dependency and that stopping it in the future makes you loose your gains.

About Fina, from what I understand Duta is stronger then Fina, if I do go all out on this what's the point of going with a weaker drug like Fina? I mean the side effects that are more likely to happen with Duta like low libido and possible infertility will still happen on E or even just AAs, not that I care much for that anyway so I think Duta would be better in my case, but I would like to know your opinion about it.

Yeah, and I did think about Microneedling, a dermatologist who I seen in my country tried to scam me into PRP talking about it like it's some kind of Holy Grail, but at least thanks to his crappy advice I was able to find out about microneedling online which is much cheaper then PRP, can be done at home, and does not have the potential to screw things up like PRP apparently does.

PS. Noob question : How do you make people's names highlight like you did with mine, do I just put a @ before a user's name?

 

[whatintheworld]

@Solxama finasteride and minoxidil are more benign treatments than the others, and can help stabilize your loss which will make you a transplant candidate.

Transplants have come a long way, but the good surgeons are quite expensive. You can have close to a full head of hair if you stabilize your loss and go to a good surgeon.

 

[Die_before_me]

Hai gaes, i want to know what is the best AA for at least stoped hair loss long term use/forever except castration , i don't care about gyno btw

 

[Pls_NW-1]

Hai gaes, i want to know what is the best AA for at least stoped hair loss long term use/forever except castration , i don't care about gyno btw

Prob. Bicalutamide. But as soon as you notice elevated liver enzyms, stop. All AA's aren't great for ya health.

 

[KNemo]

Thank you for your insight, KNemo

To be honest Minoxidil has me a bit worried, some people think it might cause dependency and that stopping it in the future makes you loose your gains.

Think about it like this: if you don't do anything you'll surely go bald, if you use HRT as a treatment you'll need to keep using it. So if minoxidil have to be forever the problem is most likely having to put in on your head twice a day the rest of your life, compared to some other diseases that have to be treated with lot of medications it's trivial and inexpensive.

About Fina, from what I understand Duta is stronger then Fina, if I do go all out on this what's the point of going with a weaker drug like Fina? I mean the side effects that are more likely to happen with Duta like low libido and possible infertility will still happen on E or even just AAs, not that I care much for that anyway so I think Duta would be better in my case, but I would like to know your opinion about it.

The facts that finasteride is enough for most and that dutasteride isn't necessarily better anyway. Some people have switched back to finasteride after using dutasteride as they think it's more effective.

Yeah, and I did think about Microneedling, a dermatologist who I seen in my country tried to scam me into PRP talking about it like it's some kind of Holy Grail, but at least thanks to his crappy advice I was able to find out about microneedling online which is much cheaper then PRP, can be done at home, and does not have the potential to screw things up like PRP apparently does.

PS. Noob question : How do you make people's names highlight like you did with mine, do I just put a @ before a user's name?

Yes it's that simple.