Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

Pls_NW-1

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This article proposes revised scientific methodology related to the use of estradiol only and with AA's. It details the scientific and statistical methodology needed to reach further conclusions, including meta-analysis of existing studies and one using new cohorts, including sensitivity analysis and confidence intervals:

Description of the intervention​

Current guidelines suggest a combination of medical and surgical methods to treat gender dysphoria in transgender women. Hormone replacement therapy (HRT) aims to suppress the development of male attributes or reverse male attributes that have already developed. At the same time, the development of female attributes is supported. Where the HRT is not expected to be successful, which can be the case for facial bone structure, breast development and genitalia, surgical methods and techniques for permanent hair removal and hair transplantation may be used for further approximation of the body to a female body type (WPATH 2011).
The guidelines of the working group led by Wyley C Hembree suggest treatment with both oestrogens and antiandrogens. Oestrogens can be administered as either oral oestrogen, transdermal estradiol patches, or by injection of estradiol valerate or estradiol cypionate. The application frequency differs depending on the patient’s reaction to the agent and the administration regimen; it could be multiple times per day or once every two weeks. Meanwhile, antiandrogens such as spironolactone or cyproterone acetate are commonly taken orally. Additionally, it is possible to block male puberty by treatment with gonadotropin‐releasing hormone (GnRH) agonist injections. (Hembree 2017).
While not every transgender woman undergoes HRT in her transition, this intervention is still widely used (Hembree 2017). We know of no studies identifying the ratio of patients who undergo HRT, nor do we know of studies investigating how much time passes between the start of transition (respectively the decision to transition) and the start of HRT. We also know of no studies on how often androgens are being prescribed in addition to or instead of 17‐beta‐estradiol, how often they are being taken, or which kinds of androgens are in use besides cyproterone acetate (CPA) and spironolactone.

How the intervention might work​

Several hormonal substances and combinations are used clinically for HRT in transitioning women. Cyproterone acetate is a progestin, steroidal anti‐androgen and anti‐gonadotropin that blocks the receptors for testosterone (T) and dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and thereby prevents these steroidal hormones from exerting their androgenic effects. Hence, it stops processes like body hair growth, hair loss on the head, male body fat distribution and others (Figg 2010; WPATH 2011). According to the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) guidelines, it is possible to suppress puberty with GnRH analogues or progestins such as medroxyprogesterone (WPATH 2011).
Spironolactone acts as a weak androgen receptor antagonist (Wenqing 2005). It also causes an increase in oestradiol levels (Rose 1977), so that further virilisation is prevented and feminisation occurs (WPATH 2011).
17‐beta‐estradiol is used to feminise the external appearance (WPATH 2011). It binds to oestrogen receptors and thus ensures gene expression, which in turn feminises appearance (Hye‐Rim 2012). In addition, estradiol suppresses gonadal testosterone production via the control systems of the hypothalamus (Hayes 2000).
For feminisation therapy, whose goal is to adapt the physical appearance and the experience of the body to a female model (by inducing breast growth, softening facial features, and inducing other physical changes commonly regarded with a feminine appearance) (WPATH 2011), the use of oral or transdermal oestrogen is recommended, and therapy with oestrogen in combination with antiandrogens is most common. Cotreatment with antiandrogens minimises the required dose of oestrogen, and thereby reduces the supposed risks of oestrogen identified in previous studies (Schürmeyer 1986; Prior 1989). Some antiandrogens are approved by WPATH — such as spironolactone, cyproterone acetate, GnRH analogists like goserelin, and 5alpha‐reductase inhibitors like finasteride — but there is no mention of recommended dosages (WPATH 2011).

Why it is important to do this review​

Antiandrogens like cyproterone acetate and spironolactone are prescribed to transgender women in transition by many gynaecologists and endocrinologists (Schneider 2006; Flütsch 2015), and they are commonly considered to be valuable drugs to support transition (WPATH 2011; Hembree 2017). However, clinical evidence suggests that this can result in adverse events; for example, CPA has significant potential for causing depression and for worsening depressive symptoms (Seal 2012). We cannot rule out that CPA contributes to the genesis of other conditions and negatively influences the course of illnesses, including psychiatric, neurological and metabolic disorders (Griard 1978; Ramsay 1990; Oberhammer 1996; Giltay 2000; Calderón 2009; Bessone 2015).
The most common adverse events of spironolactone are hyperkalaemia, dehydration and hyponatraemia (Greenblatt 1973). Furthermore, spironolactone might have an influence on anxiety behavior (Fox 2016).
The adverse events of high estradiol doses described in studies from the 1980s and 1990s should be re‐evaluated because those studies used ethinyl estradiol and premarin (equine estradiol) (Prior 1989), instead of bioidentical 17‐beta‐estradiol, and progestins instead of bioidentical progesterone. Unlike the bioidentical alternatives used today, substances administered in the past (e.g. equine oestrogens, ethinyl estradiol) were associated with diverse adverse effects like thrombophilia, cardiovascular problems, breast and prostate cancer, as well as liver, adrenal gland and neural dysfunction (Griard 1978; Calderón 2009; Asscheman 2011).
The health risks attributed to estradiol doses high enough to suppress androgens have not been found in the parenteral or transdermal application of bioidentical estradiol. Thus it is unclear why those estradiol doses should be kept low in order to make the addition of androgen antagonists like CPA or spironolactone necessary.
In light of the latest discussions among experts (Seal 2012; Wierckx 2014), and current recommendations for hormonal gender affirmation treatment (WPATH 2011) — which are strongly based on the values and preferences of health consumers — trials that show positive outcomes in the case of MTF, such as feminisation, satisfactory sexual function, reduced gender dysphoria, and high quality of life must be re‐evaluated (e.g. Murad 2010).
In 2009, the overall quality of evidence relating to these outcomes was classified as low (Hembree 2017). In 2011, WPATH summarised: "There is a need for further research on the effects of hormone therapy without surgery, and without the goal of maximum physical feminisation or masculinisation" (WPATH 2011). It is necessary to determine whether subsequent trials have provided additional evidence for efficacy, or whether there is still a lack of evidence for these desired outcomes.
Thank you! I will read it later on, need to focus on school stuff now :(
 

Pls_NW-1

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I swear, if my skin doesnt get normal in like 3 years, I will go on bica anyway. My body produces what seems like 5x natural oil.
There is nothing to lose! I feel like bica is just a much stronger version next to finasteride but with a different mechanism and for actually, the same indication. Taking both, they work synergistically.
 

Gergely

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There is nothing to lose! I feel like bica is just a much stronger version next to finasteride but with a different mechanism and for actually, the same indication. Taking both, they work synergistically.
Whenever your bica arrives, consider taking half of it and wait an hour to take the other half. Just for the first day, to see if you have any adverse reactions.
 

Pls_NW-1

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Whenever your bica arrives, consider taking half of it and wait an hour to take the other half. Just for the first day, to see if you have any adverse reactions.
Oh okay! I will keep that in mind. I already researched about its interaction within lactose-intolerant patients... hope it wont be a big problem, as its based on lactose as well and i cant handle that very well.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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You said that you can't achieve regrowth without a full MTF. I gave examples of people who managed to do this. Two of them didn't even use estrogen to grow their hair back. Don't you think this is contrary to what you are claiming?
What scientific data are you interested in? Overgrowth on Bicalutamide is easily explained by the effects of ADT and the increase in estradiol
I may over-generalize at times to make certain points. There are rare cases of spontaneous hair regrowth and the folks you mention have never been verified in terms of their claims. We are all a bucket of different hormones and genes swirling around but if these AA's worked then why the lag in scientific documentation? Bica more so than CPA, MPA and spironolactone has a limited history of human use and most of it is involved with cancer research where yes, they might blow the roof off in terms of AA dosage because the goal is one of preventing immediate DEATH not to regrow hair for 60 years. If you want to be a human guinea pig like Madame Curie and Pierre, then yes, proceed. They benefited all mankind at extreme cost to themselves.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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You said that you can't achieve regrowth without a full MTF. I gave examples of people who managed to do this. Two of them didn't even use estrogen to grow their hair back. Don't you think this is contrary to what you are claiming?
What scientific data are you interested in? Overgrowth on Bicalutamide is easily explained by the effects of ADT and the increase in estradiol
I said that I had concluded that it was unlikely without exposure to the risk of significant breast growth and complete feminization in terms of restoring signficant patches of scalp with dormant follicles. Only estradiol and its metabolites appear to be able to do this at all and certainly, safely, given current concerns about things like bone density and loss of bone mass not to mention all of the crazy sides coming from CPA, spironolactone and Bica, and that's without delving into the suicide risks of using things save estradiol for regrowth.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I am pretty sure I will be able to take bica for 15-20 years within finasteride or duta. My only concern will be gyno, but I will do a surgery. Anothet thing which would be bad for me is, if I ever want randomly to have kids, what I actually dont want, but who knows what you will want in future, is, that I will have to stop bica while conceiving.
A minute ago you were filling out the forms for castration surgery, lol. 15 years is a step up from that:)
 

Pls_NW-1

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I am not going to repeat it, bones, mucles etc depend on AR activation and not on AR signaling. Bica acts as a corepressor and stops AR signaling but not activation. Activation gets actually increased in vitro because sex hormones get doubled or even tripled.
 

tato123

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I wrote this to a friend here on the forum and I will repost here it can help some users to understand some concepts.




Testosterone increases / stimulates / creates various body tissues in our entire body.

It is possible to show in the tissues of bald men a great presence of certain types of collagens and inflammatory processes But did it develop before or after the fall? continue , testosterona -DHT (think this DHT stimulates hair growth throughout the body, but it does not happen on the scalp the question is why? ) in scalp DHT start cascate inflamatory thicken the outer layer of the skin by the process of inflammatory fibrosis, and strangle the follicles .
I want you to notice that high levels of testosterone stimulate IGF-1, this can cause certain degrees of low "acromegaly" by changing your cranial and body structure, if you look at our anatomy you can see that we have no muscles in the frontal and upper scalp, note this article that I'll post now
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4639964/


You can see that it is connected with the tension exerted by our cranial box and by the muscular stretching and baldness in the male pattern.

Is so many ways , this sh*t is a big sh*t , baldness is Hydra 7 heads of the Greeks

Testosterone affects our bodies in infinite ways, so we see that infinite protocols work for some and not for others , because is more than DHT .





Having said that and knowing what I know, I know that estrogen increases the production of collagens that give quality health to specific skin types(collagen skin types), that testosterone does not check and does not maintain mainteince correctly most of the time, so the body we naturally transform T into E via aromatase for fertility (cels sertoli , cels leydig need this) , and all body need e2 .

However for some reason we lose receptors or create resistance in our E receptors or drop levels of E or maybe our testosterone drops a little bit and it ends up for any reason and our natural conversion to e2 drop, and this is not noticeable in the short term, but in a chronic state our body has physiological changes due to this lack of balance.

What I believe is that for XY the secret is not to block T entirely as TRANS methods as bridge did, he changed his entire endocrine system.

If he stops taking the medication, his life is probably over because he cannot return, he must have developed primary hypogonadism.

I don't think T is our villain, but the hormonal balance,I think the replacement of estrogens in low dose (bi-estro maybe) or stimulates LH for more conversion T -E2 men is essential if you want to maintain health, general condition, youth for health quality in general of the body, all the boys who take HRT if you notice it reach a perfect balance at a certain point of the treatment that is they look like beautiful men, I believe that the fabrics tissues in body still hold the marks of T and when E goes up it gives this appearance "Boy Band", only when they advance their body in the treatment they transform into women totally I believe that this point is where the fabrics tissues become chronicles in E without the presence of T.

I think the secret is the manipulation of the E with its T, and what I can tell you is that in several patients only E is not able to block the production of T, not even! Because this TRANS NEED USE AA , only E not suprimed T (sometimes yes) But I want you to note that progesterone is not always used in transitions I’ve seen complete transitions with AA + e2 and a full head. So it's a matter of adapting your body to "large" amounts of E and T without suppressing its axis maybe use some natural herb to influence LH/FSH at first maybe be a way.

Bicalutamide comes up against a lot of what I said, high testosterone levels influenced IGF-1, and thousands of other things, so bicalutamide is not a right shot in some cases .

I tried to explain as clearly as possible
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Do you seriously believe in this nonsense and are throwing a link to the infobusinessman?
I am done with you Almas. Best wishes in your journey. You are on a site that is way more business-like than Rob's and he is a gentleman who attempts to reconcile all of the literature in a way that is concise and convincing. People have to earn a living and his site is free and certainly worth a membership to support him. He answers essentially all email and does so politely and was one of the first mainstream folks to treat HRT as being a complete restoration possibility.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I wrote this to a friend here on the forum and I will repost here it can help some users to understand some concepts.




Testosterone increases / stimulates / creates various body tissues in our entire body.

It is possible to show in the tissues of bald men a great presence of certain types of collagens and inflammatory processes But did it develop before or after the fall? continue , testosterona -DHT (think this DHT stimulates hair growth throughout the body, but it does not happen on the scalp the question is why? ) in scalp DHT start cascate inflamatory thicken the outer layer of the skin by the process of inflammatory fibrosis, and strangle the follicles .
I want you to notice that high levels of testosterone stimulate IGF-1, this can cause certain degrees of low "acromegaly" by changing your cranial and body structure, if you look at our anatomy you can see that we have no muscles in the frontal and upper scalp, note this article that I'll post now
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4639964/


You can see that it is connected with the tension exerted by our cranial box and by the muscular stretching and baldness in the male pattern.

Is so many ways , this sh*t is a big sh*t , baldness is Hydra 7 heads of the Greeks

Testosterone affects our bodies in infinite ways, so we see that infinite protocols work for some and not for others , because is more than DHT .





Having said that and knowing what I know, I know that estrogen increases the production of collagens that give quality health to specific skin types(collagen skin types), that testosterone does not check and does not maintain mainteince correctly most of the time, so the body we naturally transform T into E via aromatase for fertility (cels sertoli , cels leydig need this) , and all body need e2 .

However for some reason we lose receptors or create resistance in our E receptors or drop levels of E or maybe our testosterone drops a little bit and it ends up for any reason and our natural conversion to e2 drop, and this is not noticeable in the short term, but in a chronic state our body has physiological changes due to this lack of balance.

What I believe is that for XY the secret is not to block T entirely as TRANS methods as bridge did, he changed his entire endocrine system.

If he stops taking the medication, his life is probably over because he cannot return, he must have developed primary hypogonadism.

I don't think T is our villain, but the hormonal balance,I think the replacement of estrogens in low dose (bi-estro maybe) or stimulates LH for more conversion T -E2 men is essential if you want to maintain health, general condition, youth for health quality in general of the body, all the boys who take HRT if you notice it reach a perfect balance at a certain point of the treatment that is they look like beautiful men, I believe that the fabrics tissues in body still hold the marks of T and when E goes up it gives this appearance "Boy Band", only when they advance their body in the treatment they transform into women totally I believe that this point is where the fabrics tissues become chronicles in E without the presence of T.

I think the secret is the manipulation of the E with its T, and what I can tell you is that in several patients only E is not able to block the production of T, not even! Because this TRANS NEED USE AA , only E not suprimed T (sometimes yes) But I want you to note that progesterone is not always used in transitions I’ve seen complete transitions with AA + e2 and a full head. So it's a matter of adapting your body to "large" amounts of E and T without suppressing its axis maybe use some natural herb to influence LH/FSH at first maybe be a way.

Bicalutamide comes up against a lot of what I said, high testosterone levels influenced IGF-1, and thousands of other things, so bicalutamide is not a right shot in some cases .

I tried to explain as clearly as possible
This is exactly why I decided not to try Bica, CPA and I ditched spironolactone because I want to show that at least for some, estradiol-only works just as well and much more safely as E is an endogenous hormone that both sexes produce.

My second thesis is that perhaps, mega doses of E2 only can work for virtually everyone for ten months or so, which is the approximate period of pregnancy up to giving birth when estrogen and P4 is often flushed from the system.
 

Almas

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I may over-generalize at times to make certain points. There are rare cases of spontaneous hair regrowth and the folks you mention have never been verified in terms of their claims. We are all a bucket of different hormones and genes swirling around but if these AA's worked then why the lag in scientific documentation? Bica more so than CPA, MPA and spironolactone has a limited history of human use and most of it is involved with cancer research where yes, they might blow the roof off in terms of AA dosage because the goal is one of preventing immediate DEATH not to regrow hair for 60 years. If you want to be a human guinea pig like Madame Curie and Pierre, then yes, proceed. They benefited all mankind at extreme cost to themselves.
Obviously, we will never have research because these drugs are not meant to treat hair loss.
 

tato123

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This is exactly why I decided not to try Bica, CPA and I ditched spironolactone because I want to show that at least for some, estradiol-only works just as well and much more safely as E is an endogenous hormone that both sexes produce.

My second thesis is that perhaps, mega doses of E2 only can work for virtually everyone for ten months or so, which is the approximate period of pregnancy up to giving birth when estrogen and P4 is often flushed from the system.
I really like your comments, they are empirical, full of experience and emotion, thanks Janey
 

Andi0501

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No, i was a member of his discord before it was deleted, i don't know how he is doing now but i hope he is doing well. I do vaugely remember the pics he posted though and his results from 0.5mg dutasteride, 50mg bica, 2mg estradiol and 5mg oral min were amazing given the extent of his hair loss before starting. He seemed to me to be a much better responder to oral min than i am, i don't know if that is because of estradiol or not.
View attachment 157664

Don't know what to do against this diffuse thinning...

I hope finasteride+bicalutamide will fix this ,_,

I might use minoxidil when the shedding of Androgenetic Alopecia stopped.

I will be bald in a few years if I dont do smt.
Let check your thyroid!
 

Pls_NW-1

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@tato123 Bicalutamide monotherapy (no LHRH agonist) does not alter high IGF-1 levels. When used with Tamoxifen it actually decreases IGF-1 by affecting the IGF-1 axis.

When using LHRH+Bicalutamide, Insulin resistance can occur due to high IGF-1 levels and thus lead to diabetes.

But we don't use LHRH agonists, nor do we castrate ourselves.
 
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