Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

franzliszt

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Enzalutamide 160mg daily.
at $5 a gram that's not too bad. How safe do you think making your own oral pill using using untested research chemicals from china is?
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Looks like he didn't grow anymore hair, maybe cause he didn't lose it. Here is a successful hair growth trany, wonder why it works so well for some but not others:

View attachment 102927
Because everyone improves except for the shed people from what I can derive from timelines. Hair that we have changes consistency so that doesn't have to be regrown. Based upon the latest theory of baldness, it makes sense because estrogen actually has to "heal" the dormant follicles while the ones already plugging along just get nicer and nicer.
 

Itsnoahkennedy

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E589421E-6CBE-4ED3-A0D7-59233128B4BA.jpeg

Month 9 after dropping estrogen.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Ketoconozole might or might not be effective for some of us as a med but it has got to be the worst shampoo on the planet and T-gel is no better leaving everything dull and lifeless. I barely have to wash my female hair but I try to use keto once a week or two. I know that @bridgeburn didn't wash his hair. It really does seem to strip "female" hair of body and life. With male hair, I had no choice because of all the oil and sebum and sweat and dermatitis plus odor, etc. I washed my hair every day and often twice.

Basically, in terms of current meds, I am leaving everything except for tons of estrogen via dermal patches and gel, and oral minoxidil. I haven't filled my duta or finasteride prescriptions in ages. I am being prescribed 100 mg progesterone but since that is sub marginal, I am using only ten times a month X 3 nightly. I am still taking 10 mg of MPA but I forget that one, too.

It's hard to explain but there's a feeling that I know what's working and it is the one-two punch of extremely high levels of estradiol plus 12.5 mg to 20 mg daily of oral minoxidil.

In terms of feedback on my Kirkland experience, I did put on an astonishing amount of weight, like 20 pounds in two weeks and now I have lost 15 of it back so I am assuming it was mostly bloat, which I might be more susceptible to now. Goddess knows, I don't want to take anything for granted but I am thinking that the combination of oral/parenteral estradiol plus copious amounts used topically plus oral minoxidil in excess of 10 mg or more daily, might be a pretty simply three tier stack that is more likely to work then all of these other things thrown together to see what sticks.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Ketoconozole might or might not be effective for some of us as a med but it has got to be the worst shampoo on the planet and T-gel is no better leaving everything dull and lifeless. I barely have to wash my female hair but I try to use keto once a week or two. I know that @bridgeburn didn't wash his hair. It really does seem to strip "female" hair of body and life. With male hair, I had no choice because of all the oil and sebum and sweat and dermatitis plus odor, etc. I washed my hair every day and often twice.

Basically, in terms of current meds, I am leaving everything except for tons of estrogen via dermal patches and gel, and oral minoxidil. I haven't filled my duta or finasteride prescriptions in ages. I am being prescribed 100 mg progesterone but since that is sub marginal, I am using only ten times a month X 3 nightly. I am still taking 10 mg of MPA but I forget that one, too.

It's hard to explain but there's a feeling that I know what's working and it is the one-two punch of extremely high levels of estradiol plus 12.5 mg to 20 mg daily of oral minoxidil. Plus, the derma-rolling with the 2.0mm seems sensational. It heals scar tissue so that it becomes fully integrated with the surrounding tissue and that seems to be how it might be effective with hair also.

In terms of feedback on my Kirkland experience, I did put on an astonishing amount of weight, like 20 pounds in two weeks and now I have lost 15 of it back so I am assuming it was mostly bloat, which I might be more susceptible to now. Goddess knows, I don't want to take anything for granted but I am thinking that the combination of oral/parenteral estradiol plus copious amounts used topically plus oral minoxidil in excess of 10 mg or more daily, might be a pretty simply three tier stack that is more likely to work then all of these other things thrown together to see what sticks. That way you have both systemic estrogen circulating and you have the localized effects from having estrogel used on the scalp.
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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I never planned on fully transitioning this was for hair.
But it looks like it is going in the corners.... I hope not for you. So crap, then. You are still on dutasteride and nothing else? Because you are doing what everyone hoped could be done, crossing back, the great experiment.

So is that why you posted all of these:

Because if so, you are one hell of a guy. I have read most of the thread but I don't remember if I read why you were going off meds. I thought that you looked/look very attractive and just assumed you were trans. Those pictures are very, very useful to the thread so thank you for that. I am kind of in awe of you talking pictures like that on the down-slide. It's hard enough for me to post still my crown and it is filling in and I am increasing dosages.

Why not oral minoxidil? Some are getting explosive growth from that.
 
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Itsnoahkennedy

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I’m currently diffusing in the front toward norwood 1 but I’m also recovering from a big Telogen Effluvium shed Thats been going on for some months now, it’s beginning to fill back in, I don’t like body hair so i dont like to mess with minoxidil.

I’ve always been the self proclaimed guinea pig in the science of Hormone altering drugs for hair regrowth to show the world that there’s other ways to reverse thinning for those of who finasteride/dutasteride mono therapy failed them, and i provided as much as i could to this discussion for all those who needed extensive proof and information.
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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I’m currently diffusing in the front toward norwood 1 but I’m also recovering from a big Telogen Effluvium shed Thats been going on for some months now, it’s beginning to fill back in, I don’t like body hair so i dont like to mess with minoxidil.

I’ve always been the self proclaimed guinea pig for the science of Hormone altering drugs for hair regrowth to show the world that there’s other ways to reverse thinning for those of who finasteride/dutasteride mono therapy failed them, and i provided as much as i could to this discussion for all those who needed extensive proof and information.
You know for about $500 t $1,000 you can make that not even an issue with laser removal. Hormones make a lot of our body hair go away but I don't like any anywhere, including my arms, which @bridgeburn struggled with and I figure if I see any pop up elsewhere, I will do that but had both arms done on Friday for $125. Sometimes you have to do touch-ups. Anyway, just a thought but that's why I pulled the trigger on oral minoxidil. It probably is making my beard scratchier but I can deal with that too. All pales before my tresses.
 

DogoDiLaurentiis

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So I have an opportunity to propose topical estrogen to my doctor who was more than willing to allow me to experiment with topical spironolactone after I more or less gave him a mini-proposal/presentation citing some studies I dug up one of which specifically relating to men and cystic hormonal acne (I was on it for a year, it did not work). Estrogen is a bit more of a risky option and he will take that into consideration when I ask, I need to know as much as I can in order to balance results and allay his concerns about mitigating complications.

If I ask him for topical estrogen, the guy is probably not going to give it to me if I don't have a distinct plan of action or an understanding of what product and dosage I should be using. I need to walk my doctor through a plan that gives him enough confidence to put the responsibility in my hands to do this. He is pretty forward thinking when it comes to hair treatments and has told me he would prescribe me prolactin inhibitors in the event that my prl was high specifically for hair loss.

Can you guys help me? I've been looking at my old pictures, I couldn't grow a beard for sh*t but my hair was extremely thick and frankly I looked better than I do now. I'm not trans, and I am very much looking to initially take a conservative approach to applying it to my hair, I know there will be systemic effects and some of them to an extent will be welcomed as they well have beneficial effects on my skin, collagen production and even insulin sensitivity which has gone DOWN since my estrogen has seemingly declined. That being said I will be looking to mitigate the effects of weight gain and booby development, as those are going to be less desirable side effects.

What product should I be looking at and what dosage if I'm starting out small?
 
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Abomination

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China.

Why is it a problem if it does block androgens in the heart? It should be beneficial since women are less likely to have heart disease.

AR can only upregulate so much, so just increase your dosage. I've never had side effects on RU. People hear some rumor about it, they get anxiety, and then they blame their anxiety symptoms on RU.

Ischemia was considered due RU usaged, not fun:

I don't think it's as simple as "just block the androgens in your heart to have the life expectancy of a woman", we aren't women.

There are no studies on upregulation, so we are just speculating. My speculation is that if you are going to increase the dodgy chinese compound ad infinitum, at some point you would just create a cascade effect of exponential upregulation, we are discussing this here:

 

Derelict

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Composing my own meds is a bridge too far for me as is using semi-experimental ones. I don't want to offend anyone but until and unless I see pictures, I don't believe anyone is growing hair unless they are using above 2 mg of estrogen and likely, it needs to be 4mg to 8 mg daily.

Transgender females generally have risk profiles in between the two sexes for sexually dimorphic illnesses so we are less susceptible to both breast cancer and prostate cancer than either cis-females or cis-males but we are more susceptible to breast cancer than are males and more to prostate cancer than are females, which is about what you would think. The more time on HRT meds, the more that we should resemble the target sex in our patterns but that is not something that can be made into more than a generalization.

2mg is plenty for hair loss, ikarus had amazing results on 2mg estradiol, 50mg bica and 5mg oral minoxidil.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Composing my own meds is a bridge too far for me as is using semi-experimental ones. I don't want to offend anyone but until and unless I see pictures, I don't believe anyone is growing hair unless they are using above 2 mg of estrogen and likely, it needs to be 4mg to 8 mg daily.

Transgender females generally have risk profiles in between the two sexes for sexually dimorphic illnesses so we are less susceptible to both breast cancer and prostate cancer than either cis-females or cis-males but we are more susceptible to breast cancer than are males and more to prostate cancer than are females, which is about what you would think. The more time on HRT meds, the more that we should resemble the target sex in our patterns but that is not something that can be made into more than a generalization.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I read till it says Topical spironolactone then stopped.
I agree with you although Dr. Lee is still selling it on here and I like him a lot but his stuff worked because it had a very high minoxidil percentage. Topical spironolactone is a dead-end as are virtually all topicals that I hear bandied about by different guys speculating. Estrogel appears to work two ways, one, systemically, and two, locally. When combined with oral minoxidil or topical minoxidil plus sulfasalizine, I believe that people can expect excellent results but nobody wants to do that. Everyone wants to re-invent the wheel. I went through meticulously the first 100 pages of the thread yesterday and I listed all of @bridgeburn's meds and there were two different basic protocols, both of which should work in my estimation either with or without an AA and they can be found on the previous page on the thread.
 
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pegasus2

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Ischemia was considered due RU usaged, not fun:

I don't think it's as simple as "just block the androgens in your heart to have the life expectancy of a woman", we aren't women.

There are no studies on upregulation, so we are just speculating. My speculation is that if you are going to increase the dodgy chinese compound ad infinitum, at some point you would just create a cascade effect of exponential upregulation, we are discussing this here:


We're not women, and the difference is that we have more androgens. That post you linked is quoting a troll, it's completely fabricated.

CB and RU are not "dodgy chinese compounds", they were both created in the US. The fear of using compounds bought from China on this board is unsubstantiated. Most name brand pharmaceuticals sold in the United States are manufactured in China. So let's just get rid of that red herring right now.

Now let's talk upregulation, I don't even need to click the link because what you just said is completely absurd, you can't have infinite upregulation. Upregulation happens through the increased production of receptors or the mutation of receptors which happens in cancer cells. The latter is highly unlikely in the scalp, and the former has a biological limit on the number of receptors that can be created. I do believe you will need to double the dose after 6-12 months in order to block an increased number of receptors, but after that you will be fine.
 

John Difool

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Absurdity is running strong on this forum and it's causing a lot of people to continue losing their hair because folks like @Abomination writing stupid posts.
 

franzliszt

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We're not women, and the difference is that we have more androgens. That post you linked is quoting a troll, it's completely fabricated.

CB and RU are not "dodgy chinese compounds", they were both created in the US. The fear of using compounds bought from China on this board is unsubstantiated. Most name brand pharmaceuticals sold in the United States are manufactured in China. So let's just get rid of that red herring right now.

Now let's talk upregulation, I don't even need to click the link because what you just said is completely absurd, you can't have infinite upregulation. Upregulation happens through the increased production of receptors or the mutation of receptors which happens in cancer cells. The latter is highly unlikely in the scalp, and the former has a biological limit on the number of receptors that can be created. I do believe you will need to double the dose after 6-12 months in order to block an increased number of receptors, but after that you will be fine
Does prolonged use of estradiol downregulate the androgen receptors or upregulate them? And can a high enough dosage of estradiol overcome the binding affinity of DHT? While on 50mg bica, and 10mg EV every 5 days, my hairloss only stopped after adding finasteride.
 
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