Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

GRme11

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I am just posting here again my blood tests that I have done until now, while on Oral finasteride, Topical finasteride, Topical minoxidil for informative purposes.

1)Before trying Topical Finasteride and Oral:My baseline Testosterone and DHT blood tests were(June 2019):

Testosterone:806(Normal:249-836) ng/dL
DHT:541(Normal:250-990)pg/mL
Free Testosterone:12.6(Normal:5.8-18)ng/dL
Iron:133(Normal:60-160)μg/dL
Ferritin:142(Normal:30-400)ng/mL
D3:20.6(Normal:20-50)ng/mL
Then I tested all these(July 2019):
Estradiol E2:22(Normal:<60)pg/ml
Progesterone:0.36(Normal:<0.2)ng/ml
FSH:5.8(Normal:1.5-12.4)iu/l
LH:4.9(Normal:1.7-8.6)iu/l
DHEA-S:332(Normal:211-492)μg/dl
Androstenedione:2.26(Normal:0.6-3.1)ng/ml
SHBG:63(Normal:10-80)nmol/l
Prolactin:7(Normal:4-15.2)ng/ml
TSH:2.76(Normal:0.27-4.7)μIU/ml
T4:7.08(Normal:5.1-14.1)μg/dl
T3:108(Normal:80-200)ng/dl
*I was using only Minoxidil by that time

2)I jumped into Topical Finasteride+Minoxidil in August 2019 and then I managed to test in October 2019 the following:

Estradiol E2:15(Normal:<60)
Testosterone:564(Normal:249-836)
DHT:302(Normal:250-990)
D3:18.9(Normal:20-50)->Deficiency

3)January 2020 I started taking oral finasteride 3 times per week for 3 weeks(0.5mg) and I was using as well Topical Finasteride+Minoxidil.Then at the end of January I got another test and the results were:
(I got a general blood test as well and I got some pretty low results)

RBC:3.9(Normal:4.7-6)
Hemoglobin:12.3(Normal:13.5-18)
Hematocrit:36.9(Normal:40-51.5)
Estradiol E2:20
Testosterone:644
Estrone E1:31.9(Normal:15-65) No Baseline Here!
DHT:298(Normal:250-990)

***Rare Test:IGF-1:145(Normal:105-346)ng/mL

4)I finally jumped into Oral Finasteride(Propecia Brand) in mid February.I started 0.5mg everyday and in April I move into 1mg daily,which is the dose I am using at the moment.I am also still using Topical Finasteride plus Minoxidil. 6 days ago(6/5/20) I managed to get a blood test and the results were:

RBC:3.8(Normal:4.7-6)
Hemoglobin:12.2(Normal:13.5-18)
Hematocrit:36.7(Normal:40-51.5)
Iron:71(Normal:60-160)
Ferritin:120.8(Normal:30-400)
D3:16.3(Normal:20-50)
B12:612(Normal:225-1000)
Estradiol E2:5(Almost Undetectable-Just for 1 unit)
Testosterone:465.7(Normal:249-836)
Free Testosterone:7.2(Normal:5.8-18)
SHBG:58.7(Normal:10-80)
Progesterone:0.2(Normal:<0.2)
Estrone E1:21(Normal:15-65)
DHT:313(Normal:250-990)


5) 2/6/20 (same Meds) :
T3: 67 ng/dL (74-195---Low)
T4:6 μg/dl (4.6-12)
TSH: 3.23 μIU/ml (0.27-4.7)
E2:9.5 pg/ml (<60)
Testosterone:427.70 ng/dl (249-836)
FSH:5.6 mIU/ml (1.5-12.4)
LH:3.3 mIU/ml (1.7-8.6)
PRL:5.8 ng/ml (4-15.2)
DHEA-S:177.4 μg/dl (211-492)
17-OHP:1.03 ng/ml (0.5-2.5)
Androstenedione:1.99 ng/ml (0.6-3.10)
3a-Diol-G (DHT Metabolite) : 1.3 ng/ml (3.4-22)
DHT:283 pg/ml (250-990)

6) 1/9/20 (same Meds-Wanted to check my Electrolytes and Aldosterone as well!)
Calcium:10 mg/dl (8.4-10.1)
Phosphorus:4.5 mg/dl (2.7-4.5)
Pottasium:4.6 mEq/L (3.5-5.1)
Sodium:143.8 mEq/L (137-150)
Chlorium:104.6 mEq/L (98.108)
+Magnesium which was Normal
T3:65 ng/dL (74-195----Still Low)
T4:6 μg/dl (4.6-12)
TSH:2.98 μIU/ml (0.27-4.7)
Aldosterone (Standing):28 ng/dl which is 280 pg/ml (4-31) Normal BUT High accordingly to the study that measured Aldosterone Levels in correlation with Androgenetic Alopecia.
E2:8.5 pg/ml(<60)
Testosterone:523 ng/dl (249-836)
DHT:383 pg/mL (250-990)
E3:0.1 ng/mL (<0.16)

*All these tested in morning hours as it should

I hope I can help a bit with these results. I am going to make a new thread for the other members to read as well. Thank you
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Can anyone explain to me why it’s not recommended to apply estrogel directly to your problem areas? I understand that you can’t prevent it from going systemic and that to get full effect you really want it to go systemic, but I assume you’d still end up with more estrogen in your blood directly where it’s being applied as opposed to rubbing it on my inner arm or stomach.
I do this and often, applying where I like and often focusing on one specfic area. It is liberating to feel at least some control over the HRT process and if efficacious, use of estrogel allows us this.

At worst, these are just different pathways for the ingestion of estrogen. The most efficient way to take estrogel and by five or more times efficient is application via genital skin. I have frankly used it everywhere and now I focus on scalp and face. I know the hope is that estrogen has localized effects but the evidence is sketchy on this. Anecdotally, I think that doing so might have resulted in more thorough breast development. In terms of my hair, I use estrogel at least once a day as a hair gel and I work it into the entire scalp since my thinning is more diffuse. I use much larger amounts on both the hairline and the crown and I am applying it to the neck regions whence hair proceed. I apply it all over my face including lips, nose, chin throat several times per day with a thin application rubbed in with my fingers. I also used it as recommended, "down there" and it seems to result in further feminization or estrogenization of the area, meaning inducing smallness, lack of robustness and an inter-sex aspect.
 
Last edited:

Abomination

Member
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I am just posting here again my blood tests that I have done until now, while on Oral finasteride, Topical finasteride, Topical minoxidil for informative purposes.

1)Before trying Topical Finasteride and Oral:My baseline Testosterone and DHT blood tests were(June 2019):

Testosterone:806(Normal:249-836) ng/dL
DHT:541(Normal:250-990)pg/mL
Free Testosterone:12.6(Normal:5.8-18)ng/dL
Iron:133(Normal:60-160)μg/dL
Ferritin:142(Normal:30-400)ng/mL
D3:20.6(Normal:20-50)ng/mL
Then I tested all these(July 2019):
Estradiol E2:22(Normal:<60)pg/ml
Progesterone:0.36(Normal:<0.2)ng/ml
FSH:5.8(Normal:1.5-12.4)iu/l
LH:4.9(Normal:1.7-8.6)iu/l
DHEA-S:332(Normal:211-492)μg/dl
Androstenedione:2.26(Normal:0.6-3.1)ng/ml
SHBG:63(Normal:10-80)nmol/l
Prolactin:7(Normal:4-15.2)ng/ml
TSH:2.76(Normal:0.27-4.7)μIU/ml
T4:7.08(Normal:5.1-14.1)μg/dl
T3:108(Normal:80-200)ng/dl
*I was using only Minoxidil by that time

2)I jumped into Topical Finasteride+Minoxidil in August 2019 and then I managed to test in October 2019 the following:

Estradiol E2:15(Normal:<60)
Testosterone:564(Normal:249-836)
DHT:302(Normal:250-990)
D3:18.9(Normal:20-50)->Deficiency

3)January 2020 I started taking oral finasteride 3 times per week for 3 weeks(0.5mg) and I was using as well Topical Finasteride+Minoxidil.Then at the end of January I got another test and the results were:
(I got a general blood test as well and I got some pretty low results)

RBC:3.9(Normal:4.7-6)
Hemoglobin:12.3(Normal:13.5-18)
Hematocrit:36.9(Normal:40-51.5)
Estradiol E2:20
Testosterone:644
Estrone E1:31.9(Normal:15-65) No Baseline Here!
DHT:298(Normal:250-990)

***Rare Test:IGF-1:145(Normal:105-346)ng/mL

4)I finally jumped into Oral Finasteride(Propecia Brand) in mid February.I started 0.5mg everyday and in April I move into 1mg daily,which is the dose I am using at the moment.I am also still using Topical Finasteride plus Minoxidil. 6 days ago(6/5/20) I managed to get a blood test and the results were:

RBC:3.8(Normal:4.7-6)
Hemoglobin:12.2(Normal:13.5-18)
Hematocrit:36.7(Normal:40-51.5)
Iron:71(Normal:60-160)
Ferritin:120.8(Normal:30-400)
D3:16.3(Normal:20-50)
B12:612(Normal:225-1000)
Estradiol E2:5(Almost Undetectable-Just for 1 unit)
Testosterone:465.7(Normal:249-836)
Free Testosterone:7.2(Normal:5.8-18)
SHBG:58.7(Normal:10-80)
Progesterone:0.2(Normal:<0.2)
Estrone E1:21(Normal:15-65)
DHT:313(Normal:250-990)


5) 2/6/20 (same Meds) :
T3: 67 ng/dL (74-195---Low)
T4:6 μg/dl (4.6-12)
TSH: 3.23 μIU/ml (0.27-4.7)
E2:9.5 pg/ml (<60)
Testosterone:427.70 ng/dl (249-836)
FSH:5.6 mIU/ml (1.5-12.4)
LH:3.3 mIU/ml (1.7-8.6)
PRL:5.8 ng/ml (4-15.2)
DHEA-S:177.4 μg/dl (211-492)
17-OHP:1.03 ng/ml (0.5-2.5)
Androstenedione:1.99 ng/ml (0.6-3.10)
3a-Diol-G (DHT Metabolite) : 1.3 ng/ml (3.4-22)
DHT:283 pg/ml (250-990)

6) 1/9/20 (same Meds-Wanted to check my Electrolytes and Aldosterone as well!)
Calcium:10 mg/dl (8.4-10.1)
Phosphorus:4.5 mg/dl (2.7-4.5)
Pottasium:4.6 mEq/L (3.5-5.1)
Sodium:143.8 mEq/L (137-150)
Chlorium:104.6 mEq/L (98.108)
+Magnesium which was Normal
T3:65 ng/dL (74-195----Still Low)
T4:6 μg/dl (4.6-12)
TSH:2.98 μIU/ml (0.27-4.7)
Aldosterone (Standing):28 ng/dl which is 280 pg/ml (4-31) Normal BUT High accordingly to the study that measured Aldosterone Levels in correlation with Androgenetic Alopecia.
E2:8.5 pg/ml(<60)
Testosterone:523 ng/dl (249-836)
DHT:383 pg/mL (250-990)
E3:0.1 ng/mL (<0.16)

*All these tested in morning hours as it should

I hope I can help a bit with these results. I am going to make a new thread for the other members to read as well. Thank you
Wow so your DHT has gone up 100 points from 2/6/20 to 1/9/20 . Looks like compared to baseline, topical vs oral doesn't make that much of a difference, at least in serum levels. We should all measure our scalp DHT and T too when we do these tests, otherwise we dont have the full picture.
 

Gergely

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My Regimen
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Wow so your DHT has gone up 100 points from 2/6/20 to 1/9/20 . Looks like compared to baseline, topical vs oral doesn't make that much of a difference, at least in serum levels. We should all measure our scalp DHT and T too when we do these tests, otherwise we dont have the full picture.
The place i went to for blood tests, didn't even know what E1, E3 was much less what DHT is. :D
 

Jacob Williams

Established Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
65
I do this and often, applying where I like and often focusing on one specfic area. It is liberating to feel at least some control over the HRT process and if efficacious, use of estrogel allows us this.

At worst, these are just different pathways for the ingestion of estrogen. The most efficient way to take estrogel and by five or more times efficient is application via genital skin. I have frankly used it everywhere and now I focus on scalp and face. I know the hope is that estrogen has localized effects but the evidence is sketchy on this. Anecdotally, I think that doing so might have resulted in more thorough breast development. In terms of my hair, I use estrogel at least once a day as a hair gel and I work it into the entire scalp since my thinning is more diffuse. I use much larger amounts on both the hairline and the crown and I am applying it to the neck regions whence hair proceed. I apply it all over my face including lips, nose, chin throat several times per day with a thin application rubbed in with my fingers. I also used it as recommended, "down there" and it seems to result in further feminization or estrogenization of the area, meaning inducing smallness, lack of robustness and an inter-sex aspect.
Wow you must use a crazy amount of estrogel each day. Any advice on how much to use if I’m combining it with Bicalutamide? I think I read 2-3 pumps in another thread where a guy had success regrowing hair with the goal of maintaining as much masculinity possible, but he was taking CPA.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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My Regimen
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The place i went to for blood tests, didn't even know what E1, E3 was much less what DHT is. :D
There's lab corp and then there's the other one quest but I was wondering if there would be an assay called something like HRT-Extended.
 
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JaneyElizabeth

Senior Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
1,170
Wow you must use a crazy amount of estrogel each day. Any advice on how much to use if I’m combining it with Bicalutamide? I think I read 2-3 pumps in another thread where a guy had success regrowing hair with the goal of maintaining as much masculinity possible, but he was taking CPA.
Estrogel is stored in fat muscles and released as needed so I have always taken a bio-feedback path. The mere massaging of it in different areas is healthy psychologically and in terms of skin-age calibrating from what I can tell.

I would use as little bica as needed but for hair goals, you do want to achieve adult female levels of estrogen and testosterone. That's not the case for breast growth or fat redistribution below the neck from what I have observed. I absolutely loooovvvve estrogel and I think that it is the fountain of beauty for skin and likely to have at least minor skin effects that are beneficial and for hair, maybe the major push for regeneration.

As I look in the mirror, my "guy" hair is really, really coming in. Different to how one might think, my hair took on significant structure right after using or beginning to use estrogen. This means that the "regrowth" has been largely independent of the frontal temporal lines and so there isn't really a feeling of my being able to look for the corners to fill in. It is basically all filling in and filling out, most likely in terms of strand diameter. I am not very worried anymore because the hair seems in control of itself. I will continue with the estrogel treatments since they are correlated with excellent results.
 
Last edited:

GRme11

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My Regimen
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70
Wow so your DHT has gone up 100 points from 2/6/20 to 1/9/20 . Looks like compared to baseline, topical vs oral doesn't make that much of a difference, at least in serum levels. We should all measure our scalp DHT and T too when we do these tests, otherwise we dont have the full picture.
I totally agree. These blood tests can be inaccurate, because hormones have many fluctuations. For example, DHT going up and down and that’s why after I added 3a-Diol-G, because it’s a stronger indicator, since it’s a major metabolite of DHT and so on. Although, I did all these to know what’s happening and how my body reacts and to check as well, all the other stuff that I read from threads,studies etc. Thanks.
 

Jacob Williams

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I’m about to photo dump a bunch of pictures of my current hair under different conditions. It’s been hard to capture the pattern of my hair loss in the past because it’s quite diffuse. I’d describe my hair as clumpy. I have a bunch of thick clumps that act like a canopy over the areas where hair is missing. In isolation most of the photos aside from my sides don’t look bad, but the photos are representative of what’s happening all over the top and lots of the back of my head. Again it’s just very hard to capture the extent of my hairloss with photos.
 

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Jacob Williams

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My hair feels and behaves significantly different from how it used to, and I’ve never had all these barren gaps before. I still have enough hair left to pass, but it’s continuing to regress even on an extreme regimen. I don’t understand why people think you need to be a NW6 to start taking antiandrogens or estrogen. If your hair is as important to you as it is to me, you should start as soon as it’s your last available option if things are still getting worse. Don’t let people gaslight you into believing you aren’t balding just because you can still cover it. It’s significantly harder to regrow hair than to maintain so the second you can’t cover it you might be sh*t out of luck. I started antiandrogens when my temples were just barely starting to show at the front and I had perfect density everywhere else and it’s still gotten significantly worse (again everything is relative, I know it’s still not nearly as bad as other people here). Please don’t wait until you’re at the stage that Bridgeburn was at when he started. I think and hope that I still stand a good chance at recovery but who knows with how resistant I’ve been to treatment thus far. It’s gonna suck if I need estrogen side effects just to maintain. If I’m gonna lose all my muscle mass and fertility I’d at least like to be able to style my hair like I could 6 months ago.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Why do all of you start with, or even use without estrogen, AA's? I assume it is due to the fear that estrogen is more femininizing than AA's but I am not sure about that.
 

Gergely

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Why do all of you start with, or even use without estrogen, AA's? I assume it is due to the fear that estrogen is more femininizing than AA's but I am not sure about that.
I don't think i would have developed further gyno if i stayed on spironolactone, bica is more "feminizing" than E2 and spironolactone combined.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I don't think i would have developed further gyno if i stayed on spironolactone, bica is more "feminizing" than E2 and spironolactone combined.
Interesting in that some have claimed that Bica is less impactful upon physical strength which I found spironolactone to cause, both in terms of fatigue and weakness.
 

Analogies

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Has anyone successfully had regrowth from increasing their estrogen levels without lowering their testosterone levels?
 

John Difool

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If you keep T up then you will need AA & 5ARi based on your DHT. Bica is good for that Expect gyno even with high T as E2 will find its way to the breasts tissues and Bica will increase it. However raising E2 in a range that brings results will lower your T. Check E2 monotherapy. There is no magic. In fact this very thread shows the outcome of raising E2 and using AA in the first few pages
 
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