Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

bridgeburn

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Trandsermal estrogen provides more stable levels, than oral; also this route of administration is considered to be the safest form of HRT, because of relatively low risk of hepatotoxicity. The only problem with gel is that it was initially intended for female type of skin, which is much thinner than men's, therefore full penetration can be problematic. From what I read, your dosage of gel is very low to achieve normal (or even low) female levels of estradiol. You might benefit from adding more estrogen to your regimen, then regrowth should appear a lot faster.
Good point, I never thought about the skin thickness. I've read many times that trans HRT makes skin thinner but I may not be on a high enough dose for that.

Also, when you take your Ethinyl E do you just swallow it? does it matter if its sublingual for effectiveness like the natural version?

What have they been?
by sides i meant what is actually normal and can be expected.
lower libido, c*m is mostly clear, alot of my chest hair fell out, gyno and big puffy nipples, much less acne and less body odor, more emotional..
 

ALightInTheDark

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Also, glad you figured out the Swiss Temples bullshit. Hair loss treatment is ANTIANDROGENS above ALL ELSE.

So Cots,one of greatest hair loss searcher is bullshit ? Nice one buddy !

Hair loss cure will never be a single magical silver bullet,if you expect Anti Androgens to cure you,you're right.
But also,don't forget about the nasty f*****g side effects,you know,the dick killer thing. Easy to point out incredible results but forget enormous side effects like this.
 

ALightInTheDark

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Show me one case where someone has clearly regained 2+ Norwoods and kept it using this protocol

2+ Norwood I don't recall but 1 Norwood without side effect and total maintenance there is plenty of in private forum.
Also,there is only 2 to 3 people who is using Seti at 1.5/2g a day,and it started 2 months ago (westonci is part of it.)
Most of them use it at 100 to 500mg/day.
Clinical trials are at 1.5/2g a day.
Not everbody can afford that,you may have forget this little detail : seti is a new and money dependent drug.

And not everybody dermaroll 1.5mm every week with PGE2 etc etc. We're not all rich,and people who are,have less time than us,so they can't properly do the protocol.

Also Seti in comparaison of Fevi or Pullmagen is weak :)

We have loads of examples of guys doing that with conventional antiandrogens.

And at what price ? Sexual side effects. No thanks,hair loss is already too much of a f*****g malediction to have another one.

Heck even finasteride + topical minoxidil allows many to do that.

You forget also one thing : not everyone is a good responder of fina and minoxidil,if it was the case, the sucess stories thread sould be full of NW1 ;)
Only few people manage to have astonashing results on big 3. Majority of people have just maintenance and for some it doesn't work.
 

DHTpolice

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Good point, I never thought about the skin thickness. I've read many times that trans HRT makes skin thinner but I may not be on a high enough dose for that.

Also, when you take your Ethinyl E do you just swallow it? does it matter if its sublingual for effectiveness like the natural version?

Yes, ethinyl estradiol in contraceptive pills usually mixed with antiandrogens and progestagens, and should be taken orally by swallowing. Estradiol valerate (Progynova) too. Sublingual route is recommended for estradiol hemihydrate (Estrofem).
 

bridgeburn

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2+ Norwood I don't recall but 1 Norwood without side effect and total maintenance there is plenty of in private forum.
Also,there is only 2 to 3 people who is using Seti at 1.5/2g a day,and it started 2 months ago (westonci is part of it.)
Most of them use it at 100 to 500mg/day.
Clinical trials are at 1.5/2g a day.
Not everbody can afford that,you may have forget this little detail : seti is a new and money dependent drug.

And not everybody dermaroll 1.5mm every week with PGE2 etc etc. We're not all rich,and people who are,have less time than us,so they can't properly do the protocol.

Also Seti in comparaison of Fevi or Pullmagen is weak :)



And at what price ? Sexual side effects. No thanks,hair loss is already too much of a f*****g malediction to have another one.



You forget also one thing : not everyone is a good responder of fina and minoxidil,if it was the case, the sucess stories thread sould be full of NW1 ;)
Only few people manage to have astonashing results on big 3. Majority of people have just maintenance and for some it doesn't work.
Westonci appeared to have some improvement with seti but nothing too dramatic, he wasn't using a 5ar inhibitor though. Swiss was using dutasteride with the prostaglandin protocol, which according to the theory androgens increase pgd2, so it makes sense that if you don't use a 5ar inhibitor, you would need a high enough dose to "outrun" the pgd2 production from androgens.
There are many who use finasteride and minoxidil and get results for a couple years but eventually lose ground again, I believe this is also what happened to Swiss, his last photo he posted in my opinion looked worse than the previous photo and he hasn't updated his blog in years, he also claimed to be close to his juvenile hairline but after never showed pics from enough distance to show it.
The only evidence for the prostaglandin method I've seen so far is from Swiss and Westconli but that doesn't satisfying prove it would cause long term healthy anagen hair growth.. Minoxidil if used alone also regrows hair, sometimes for months or years but it's well known that if you don't take drugs to alter your hormones, then genetics eventually catch up again.. So, how can we know that the same thing doesn't happen with the PGD2 theory?
Swiss even often recommended not using Keto shampoo because keto reduces Pge2. Lol

Swooping had some interesting viewpoints throughout this thread ---> https://www.baldtruthtaIk.com/threads/19018-Setipiprant/page11

I agree Hair is a multi angled approach.and maybe pdg2 inhibitors/ pge2 could be a part of a non-feminizing solution someday. but alone it is not the cure. PGD2 is not the only thing bad for hair an PGE2 is not the only thing good for hair. I doubt its the sole reason for balding. theres other negative growth factors too, Tgfb, dkk-1, oxidative stress, IFN-gamma, etc.
 

ALightInTheDark

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Westonci appeared to have some improvement with seti but nothing too dramatic, he wasn't using a 5ar inhibitor though. Swiss was using dutasteride with the prostaglandin protocol, which according to the theory androgens increase pgd2, so it makes sense that if you don't use a 5ar inhibitor, you would need a high enough dose to "outrun" the pgd2 production from androgens.
There are many who use finasteride and minoxidil and get results for a couple years but eventually lose ground again, I believe this is also what happened to Swiss, his last photo he posted in my opinion looked worse than the previous photo and he hasn't updated his blog in years, he also claimed to be close to his juvenile hairline but after never showed pics from enough distance to show it.
The only evidence for the prostaglandin method I've seen so far is from Swiss and Westconli but that doesn't satisfying prove it would cause long term healthy anagen hair growth.. Minoxidil if used alone also regrows hair, sometimes for months or years but it's well known that if you don't take drugs to alter your hormones, then genetics eventually catch up again.. So, how can we know that the same thing doesn't happen with the PGD2 theory?
Swiss even often recommended not using Keto shampoo because keto reduces Pge2. Lol

Swooping had some interesting viewpoints throughout this thread ---> https://www.baldtruthtaIk.com/threads/19018-Setipiprant/page11

I agree Hair is a multi angled approach.and maybe pdg2 inhibitors/ pge2 could be a part of a non-feminizing solution someday. but alone it is not the cure. PGD2 is not the only thing bad for hair an PGE2 is not the only thing good for hair. I doubt its the sole reason for balding. theres other negative growth factors too, Tgfb, dkk-1, oxidative stress, IFN-gamma, etc.

http://i58.tinypic.com/33ur9kk.jpg

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/textthread.cfm?catid=7&threadid=103580

It can't could be a part of it. It IS a part of it no matter what, it's proved.
And I never said alone it's the cure. That's why I always said that actually Seti + CB/RU is the best thing to do if you have money.
OC/TM + Enza if you want to take risks. Fevi + Darolutamide for 2019 and hopefully one day Pulmagen + Darolutamide.
For minoxidil,Hydralazine or minoxidil Sulfate should do the trick.

Next Big 3 would be Dermaneedling + Pulmagen/Darolutamide + Hydralazine/minoxidil Sulfate next years.
We need to end feminization/castration/sexual and brain probs sh*t.
 
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bridgeburn

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http://i58.tinypic.com/33ur9kk.jpg

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/textthread.cfm?catid=7&threadid=103580

It can't could be a part of it. It IS a part of it no matter what, it's proved.
And I never said alone it's the cure. That's why I always said that actually Seti + CB/RU is the best thing to do if you have money.
OC/TM + Enza if you want to take risks. Fevi + Darolutamide for 2019 and hopefully one day Pulmagen + Darolutamide.
For minoxidil,Hydralazine or minoxidil Sulfate should do the trick.

Next Big 3 would be Dermaneedling + Pulmangen/Darolutamide + Hydralazine/minoxidil Sulfate next years.
We need to end feminizasation/castration/sexual and brain probs sh*t.
oh, sorry if i attacked you. good luck with those experiments but I expect it to be a long, complicated, difficult, expensive journey.

what is special about darolutamide? its an anti androgen so what about the sides you wish to avoid?

hydralazine? does that work like minoxidil?

minoxidil sulfate is the active form of minoxidil. but ive read that is its unstable and will hydrolyze back into minoxidil in a few days. Maybe dry powder is stable?? IDK.
 

rupture

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This is a beautiful well-written post. I couldn't have said it better.

And it's so true. Sometimes I wish I could relive the last ten years of my life somehow with the guarantee of a full head of hair for that time. What would it be like to not hate the wind for revealing my secret, I can't even remember. I honestly like the way wind feels but I don't enjoy that simple pleasure because of this bullshit. How can anyone possibly think its funny?!!!!! :mad:
Never have i wanted something so badly. when I see on the news images of evil people like terrorists or nazi leaders who happen to have a full head of hair I get so f*****g infuriated and dream about peeling off their scalp with a knife.
f*** alopecia, Its so fucked up. People dont think of it serious at all. but depression is serious, and hairloss causes depression, Hahahaha. and in me it caused an obsession.
Good for you bro .As you know I'm on similar reg only I was losing hair 20 plus years and I'm seeing pigmented hair in temple growing down to native hairline and that has not been there for 15 yrs. I think estrogen activates/ interacts WNT pathway. I think you may have created the Anty DHT replacment thread lol
 

ALightInTheDark

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oh, sorry if i attacked you. good luck with those experiments but I expect it to be a long, complicated, difficult, expensive journey.

No I didn't take it like an attack haha ! Good luck to all of us. Nothing good come out of the easy way

I think estrogen activates/ interacts WNT pathway.

It activates FGF9 and have AA properties.

what is special about darolutamide? its an anti androgen so what about the sides you wish to avoid?
3% metabolites and doesn't cross BBB. Strong af too.

but ive read that is its unstable and will hydrolyze back into minoxidil in a few days. Maybe dry powder is stable?? IDK.

Yes it is,new fresh batch everyday should be made. Hydralazine works like minoxidil yes.
 

bridgeburn

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Good for you bro .As you know I'm on similar reg only I was losing hair 20 plus years and I'm seeing pigmented hair in temple growing down to native hairline and that has not been there for 15 yrs. I think estrogen activates/ interacts WNT pathway. I think you may have created the Anty DHT replacment thread lol
Hahahaha!!! If this is the replacement thread then I guess I should shove the side effects in my *** and increase the dose. 15 years, thats crazy, I wonder if there is a point of no return. Also, I should take screenshots in case this thread ever gets deleted.
 

bridgeburn

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A little update.
I've decided to take a break from Cypro. for a few reasons:
1. I don't want to build tolerance to it. (I don't know if this is possible but Im worried just in case)
2. I don't want to elevate prolactin too much. and Cypro increases the risk of developing prolactin producing tumors.
3. I miss drinking alcohol. Hahaha 

So since October 5th I started taking a reduced dose of 25mg CPA everyday and I increased the dose of E to 2.25mg from estrogel. I don't feel like my testosterone increased any with the lower dose of cypro and i still have all the other sides.

heres my monthly right side pic:
taken today, Nov. 10
P_20171110_094331_vHDR_Auto.jpg

my hair is getting longer, I might cut soon to make sure i can take honest pics.

heres last months pic.. P_20171010_181448_vHDR_Auto.jpg
and my baseline pic .. P_20170727_165503_vHDR_Auto.jpg

Heres a recent close up pic of the left temple:
Screenshot_20171030-092641.jpg

left temple has responded better. However it doesn't look as good from a distance or in other lighting. In some lighting it looks like a bald temple with a tiny smudge of dirt on it. I can honestly make it look alot better or worse depending on how i hold the camera. also im still finding tiny new hairs appearing which my camera cant see yet.

Since Nov. 2nd. I dropped cypro and increased Estrogel dose to 3mg of E a day. hopefully E alone will suppress my T.
Im waiting for oral minoxidil pills to arrive in the mail and also for Estrofem pills to arrive and will try those next.

After a month or two. I will restart cypro.
 

DHTpolice

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Maybe add a little of spironolactone for reassurence?
 
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yourworld001

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A little update.
I've decided to take a break from Cypro. for a few reasons:
1. I don't want to build tolerance to it. (I don't know if this is possible but Im worried just in case)
2. I don't want to elevate prolactin too much. and Cypro increases the risk of developing prolactin producing tumors.
3. I miss drinking alcohol. Hahaha 

So since October 5th I started taking a reduced dose of 25mg CPA everyday and I increased the dose of E to 2.25mg from estrogel. I don't feel like my testosterone increased any with the lower dose of cypro and i still have all the other sides.

heres my monthly right side pic:
taken today, Nov. 10
View attachment 69388
my hair is getting longer, I might cut soon to make sure i can take honest pics.

heres last months pic.. View attachment 69389
and my baseline pic .. View attachment 69390

Heres a recent close up pic of the left temple: View attachment 69391
left temple has responded better. However it doesn't look as good from a distance or in other lighting. In some lighting it looks like a bald temple with a tiny smudge of dirt on it. I can honestly make it look alot better or worse depending on how i hold the camera. also im still finding tiny new hairs appearing which my camera cant see yet.

Since Nov. 2nd. I dropped cypro and increased Estrogel dose to 3mg of E a day. hopefully E alone will suppress my T.
Im waiting for oral minoxidil pills to arrive in the mail and also for Estrofem pills to arrive and will try those next.

After a month or two. I will restart cypro.

Have you lost muscle mass being on Estrogel or started developing a womens body shape with fat redistribution?
 

bridgeburn

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Have you lost muscle mass being on Estrogel or started developing a womens body shape with fat redistribution?
I didn't have much muscle before so I'm not sure. I haven't noticed any loss of strength.
I've always been skinny, but i have a little more fat around the hips now. breasts are squishier but they don't look noticeably bigger.
 

yourworld001

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I didn't have much muscle before so I'm not sure. I haven't noticed any loss of strength.
I've always been skinny, but i have a little more fat around the hips now. breasts are squishier but they don't look noticeably bigger.

Has your c*** shrunk?
 

sisenegonan

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Have you started on oral minoxidil? What dosage plan are going to follow?

Also just curious, do you have a measure of how fast your hair grows? Like, I recently plucked out a white hair, and it was around 7cm long, and its been 6 months since I buzzed my head.
 

bridgeburn

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Have you started on oral minoxidil? What dosage plan are going to follow?

Also just curious, do you have a measure of how fast your hair grows? Like, I recently plucked out a white hair, and it was around 7cm long, and its been 6 months since I buzzed my head.
not yet, waiting for it to arrive. I checked tracking info and i should recieve it tommorow.
I dont want to suddenly switch from topical in case of shed, so at first I will use topical every other day and 5mg oral on the other days. Then i will switch to just oral 5mg everyday. and depending if theres side effects, might bump up to 10mg.

I haven't measured how fast my hair grows, but i think its been growing faster recently. i sometimes trim it with scissors.
 

ozan35

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Are you producing sperm? Is there any permanent side effect? Can you write a full treatment? Do you think you should just use androcur? Estrogen is a severe treatment. (for man)
 
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