Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[bridgeburn]

Curious, do you have opinion on why Clomid would be so bad for male hair?

I was banking on the fact that it raises E2, to be helpful, and it did seem to reduce overall shedding... but was not good at all for hairline.

Is it just the increase in T/DHT, or perhaps it displaces E (or has anti-e effect) in scalp? perhaps a combo of both?

It is a SERM. Blocks Estrogen receptors in a part of the brain. And is supposed to leave other receptors alone.. I would be cautious because I highly doubt anybody has tested what it could or might do to the estrogen receptors in the scalp.. because nobody cares and male pattern baldness is not considered a real medical condition.
Of course I'm just speculating. The SERM action may not even have a negative effect on scalp receptors.

But I KNOW absolutely for sure its the gonadotrophin effect that affects hair negatively. The brain detects current level of plasma sex hormones, T or E, and releases gonadotrophins to signal the Gonads to produce Sex hormones.. LH is the same hormone which "turns on" gonads in both men and women. Testicles after being turned on produce alot of T and a little E while ovaries produce alot E and a little T. yin and yang.
before Clomid may be level 10 T and level 1 E. and after may be level 100 T and level 10 E. which in turn can lead to more DHT, because the scalp has 5ar locally. If say the level of 5ar in the scalp was 15. then going from level 10 T to 100 T puts your scalp from level 10 DHT to level 15 DHT. and that 15 DHT is a greater level than the level 10 E gained from clomid. hope this makes sense.

Anything which increases the production of testosterone also increases the production of estrogen, unless it is increased by affecting the enzymes 5ar or aromatase. So yes, it increases E, but it also makes you overall more androgenic in proportion to the E that is produced.. Estradiol is increased during male puberty, Testosterone is produced during female puberty. What is more important than the level of androgens or estrogens is the ration between them.


cypro for example is an anti-gonadotrophin. It reduces LH. therefore it reduces the production of both T and E.. However, taking it increases the risk of estrogenic side effects like gyno despite the reduction in estrogen because it blocks the androgen receptor which causes the overall T/E ratio a little more to the E side.

 

[bridgeburn]

Mainly because the chances of hair loss on 20MG or lower is almost non-existent. There is a potential, but it depends on how your body can tolerate it. For me, the only side effects I got were dry skin and dry lips.

If Spironolactone does get rid of my acne (very mild but persistent acne), I would definitely cut out Accutane.

HRT totally erased my acne. now I seriously NEVER get acne. I was shocked.. f*** androgens, f*****g up my skin and hair.. That's the real cause of most acne

 

[bridgeburn]

OH wow, you think this way too

Found it, Lol. Page 91:

for me, even if I was doomed to be trapped alone on a deserted island for the rest of my life and never interact with anybody again; It would still bother me

 

[Ikarus]

HRT totally erased my acne. now I seriously NEVER get acne. I was shocked.. f*** androgens, f*****g up my skin and hair.. That's the real cause of most acne

That's another reason I might want to stop Accutane and just see if HRT will erase my acne.

An issue / main concern I have with Accutane is that after you finish it, the chances of it coming back if you were on a lower dose is higher. So, I could be doing that damage to my body for nothing.

 

[coco_304]

It is a SERM. Blocks Estrogen receptors in a part of the brain. And is supposed to leave other receptors alone.. I would be cautious because I highly doubt anybody has tested what it could or might do to the estrogen receptors in the scalp.. because nobody cares and male pattern baldness is not considered a real medical condition.
Of course I'm just speculating. The SERM action may not even have a negative effect on scalp receptors.

But I KNOW absolutely for sure its the gonadotrophin effect that affects hair negatively. The brain detects current level of plasma sex hormones, T or E, and releases gonadotrophins to signal the Gonads to produce Sex hormones.. LH is the same hormone which "turns on" gonads in both men and women. Testicles after being turned on produce alot of T and a little E while ovaries produce alot E and a little T. yin and yang.
before Clomid may be level 10 T and level 1 E. and after may be level 100 T and level 10 E. which in turn can lead to more DHT, because the scalp has 5ar locally. If say the level of 5ar in the scalp was 15. then going from level 10 T to 100 T puts your scalp from level 10 DHT to level 15 DHT. and that 15 DHT is a greater level than the level 10 E gained from clomid. hope this makes sense.

Anything which increases the production of testosterone also increases the production of estrogen, unless it is increased by affecting the enzymes 5ar or aromatase. So yes, it increases E, but it also makes you overall more androgenic in proportion to the E that is produced.. Estradiol is increased during male puberty, Testosterone is produced during female puberty. What is more important than the level of androgens or estrogens is the ration between them.


cypro for example is an anti-gonadotrophin. It reduces LH. therefore it reduces the production of both T and E.. However, taking it increases the risk of estrogenic side effects like gyno despite the reduction in estrogen because it blocks the androgen receptor which causes the overall T/E ratio a little more to the E side.

cypro reduce e?
cypro + e2 its a good regime?

 

[mryellowman]

cypro for example is an anti-gonadotrophin. It reduces LH. therefore it reduces the production of both T and E.. However, taking it increases the risk of estrogenic side effects like gyno despite the reduction in estrogen because it blocks the androgen receptor which causes the overall T/E ratio a little more to the E side.

Don't you think bicalutamide would be superior to cypro in this case?

 

[bridgeburn]

Don't you think bicalutamide would be superior to cypro in this case?

DHT has 50 times the affinity to the androgen receptor than bica. That is why I'm cautious with bica.. Bica does win even though its weak by outnumbering but still it could theoretically increase DHT by its gonadotrophin effect.. combining bica with dutasteride and/or estradiol, I think would be superior.
but unless you use it as part of an all out Mtf regimen, i believe cypro is a litle stronger with its antigonadotrophin effect.

 

[bridgeburn]

cypro reduce e?
cypro + e2 its a good regime?

yes and yes

 

[Moosey]

Mainly because the chances of hair loss on 20MG or lower is almost non-existent. There is a potential, but it depends on how your body can tolerate it. For me, the only side effects I got were dry skin and dry lips.

If Spironolactone does get rid of my acne (very mild but persistent acne), I would definitely cut out Accutane.

If you take accutane for acne even 10mg is going to work. You dont even get dry skin at that dose. And once the acne is gone, you can maintain at 5mg per day.
I know because i battled steroid acne for like 3 years. 10mg completely rekt all of my acne

 

[bridgeburn]

[QUOTE = "bridgeburn, post: 1770442, member: 130663"] debe tomar dutasteride, o al menos finasteride with bicalutimide. Bica aumenta la producción de testosterona, por lo que DHT también debería aumentar. sin embargo, bloquea el receptor de andrógenos para prevenir los efectos de los andrógenos. Aunque generalmente ganará bica, todavía hay competencia para los receptores. Puede mejorar el efecto de bica al tomar dutasteride con ella, lo que deja una disminución en la cantidad de T que se convierte en DHT, y más en la conversión de E .., por supuesto, hace que el riesgo de ginecología sea mayor.

El raloxifeno debe ser efectivo contra el ginecomastia. pero debes comenzar con él antes de que Gyno se desarrolle ... la efectividad para el cabello, solo usarlo realmente lo dirá. He escuchado anécdotas mixtas sobre si Ralox afecta negativamente al cabello o no. Aunque no tengo experiencia tomando ralox.

Comprenda que sus resultados pueden variar y hay riesgos para esto ... buena suerte [/ QUOTE]
So do you think that spironolactone could be a better antiandrogen than bicalutamide or flutamide? since the latter increase free testosterone

no, I think spironolactone is weak and much higher doses would be needed, which can be risky.
with spironolactone alone T will still be high andits a weak agonist. with bica alone T will be high however its a pure antagonist.

 

[bridgeburn]

@bridgeburn ; how is the affinity of spironolactone for the androgen receptors compared to testosterone and DHT? 400 mg spironolactone a day will outnumber testosterone and DHT in the body?

I don't know. you are already taking 400mg right? so, you tell me, how are the sides?

 

[Ikarus]

If you take accutane for acne even 10mg is going to work. You dont even get dry skin at that dose. And once the acne is gone, you can maintain at 5mg per day.
I know because i battled steroid acne for like 3 years. 10mg completely rekt all of my acne

Yes, even 5MG has been proven as effective. Although, dry skin is inevitable no matter the dose; the severity of dry skin won't be as bad with doses ranging from 5MG to 20MG. I went to 40MG. However, I had to stop them as my first blood test whilst on Accutane showed that my liver enzyme levels were too high (I believe it went to 140). And once I stopped it for two weeks, they went even higher (it went to 171). So, my Dermatologist concluded that it's because of all the supplements I'm taking alongside with Accutane - all of them combined was taking too much of a toll on my liver especially since I would take them all at the same time (I was taking around 5 different supplements daily which all contained higher doses, not including the Accutane).

 

[bridgeburn]

3 times a week. Mon, Wed, Fri (1 tablet only)
I am in a fix. Cypro is not available exclusively in my country so I have to take the diane route.
Diane is hard on my liver probably due to the EE.

3 times a week is f*****g you up?? are you on other drugs too? you may have a weak liver considering millions of women take EE in birth control almost everyday.

 

[BOLLYnorWOOD]

guys i Have some sad/bad news... i Actually had an appointment tomorrow for estrogen prescription. but Derm suddenly called me and he is not willing to prescribe me the E afterwards (after he discussed it with other specialists). and i cannot order It. because 2 months ago i ordered estrogen often from trustworthy pharmacies. but afterwards they got destroyed (i dunno why, they told me it is illegal or something).

the Derm only wants to prescribe 10 mg oral Min with cardiovascular check-ups. do you Guys think 10 mg oral min will Do great with spironolactone (a diuretic to counter unwanted side effects) and Dutas...?

 

[bridgeburn]

I really prefer the reduced libido on diane. My libido has returned after discontinuing it and it feels so frustrating to be horny all the time and not being able to focus.

The ancient philosopher Plato would agree:

"But as it is, I have encountered others for whom it was not so, especially Sophocles. I was once present when the poet was asked by someone, 'Sophocles,
how are you in sex? Can you still have intercourse with a woman?'
'Silence, man,' he said. 'Most joyfully did I escape it, as though I had
run away from a sort of frenzied and savage master.' I thought at the
time that he had spoken well and I still do. For, in every way, old age
brings great peace and freedom from such things. When the desires cease to strain and finally relax, then what Sophocles says comes to pass in every way; it is possible to be rid of very many mad masters. "

- Republic, 380 BC

 

[bridgeburn]

guys i Have some sad/bad news... i Actually had an appointment tomorrow for estrogen prescription. but Derm suddenly called me and he is not willing to prescribe me the E afterwards (after he discussed it with other specialists). and i cannot order It. because 2 months ago i ordered estrogen often from trustworthy pharmacies. but afterwards they got destroyed (i dunno why, they told me it is illegal or something).

the Derm only wants to prescribe 10 mg oral Min with cardiovascular check-ups. do you Guys think 10 mg oral min will Do great with spironolactone (a diuretic to counter unwanted side effects) and Dutas...?

f*** DoCtors!!!! this is why I didn't bother with them and thier cowardice liability protecting asses.. they think testosterone is required for men cause thats Normal. we have to be fuciing babied when it should be our decison as individuals with this fucked up disease called male pattern bullshit.. Let us use everything strong to fight effectively Androgenetic Alopecia! I did not agree to the terms and conditions of andrgens andit is utter cruelty to force anyone to.. we have the right to run on whichever hormone we feel bestt ..

goddamit, I knew paying for a doctor visit just for them to give me political bullshit andsay no is a waste of time and I wanted to change my doses at will.. tell them you wil cut off your balls if they don't give you then maybr they will give you.. they need to know the true impact of baldness and treat it seriously not as a f*****g joke, playing it safe. . when Depression is considered a real medical condotion and f*****g hairloss isn't wheb hairloss extremely makes men depressed. f*** the godamn world god f***

 

[Moosey]

Yes, even 5MG has been proven as effective. Although, dry skin is inevitable no matter the dose; the severity of dry skin won't be as bad with doses ranging from 5MG to 20MG. I went to 40MG. However, I had to stop them as my first blood test whilst on Accutane showed that my liver enzyme levels were too high (I believe it went to 140). And once I stopped it for two weeks, they went even higher (it went to 171). So, my Dermatologist concluded that it's because of all the supplements I'm taking alongside with Accutane - all of them combined was taking too much of a toll on my liver especially since I would take them all at the same time (I was taking around 5 different supplements daily which all contained higher doses, not including the Accutane).

Lol supplements dont drain your liver, medications and drugs do. What kind of supplements are you taking? I take like 12 supplements per day + 10mg accutane per day and my blood test results are fine.

If you are concernced about your liver, its better to take 5mg per day than 20mg 3 times a week.

guys i Have some sad/bad news... i Actually had an appointment tomorrow for estrogen prescription. but Derm suddenly called me and he is not willing to prescribe me the E afterwards (after he discussed it with other specialists). and i cannot order It. because 2 months ago i ordered estrogen often from trustworthy pharmacies. but afterwards they got destroyed (i dunno why, they told me it is illegal or something).

the Derm only wants to prescribe 10 mg oral Min with cardiovascular check-ups. do you Guys think 10 mg oral min will Do great with spironolactone (a diuretic to counter unwanted side effects) and Dutas...?

In my opinion minoxidil is absolutely sh*t. I dont recommend anyone using it

 

[Moosey]

@bridgeburn "they think testosterone is required for men cause thats Normal" What makes you think you dont need testosterone?

 

[bridgeburn]

@bridgeburn "they think testosterone is required for men cause thats Normal" What makes you think you dont need testosterone?

I feel great without it

 

[bridgeburn]

Off Topic Question;
I'm already taking 5% topical minoxidil.
If I also add 5mg of Oral minoxidil in conjunction with topical, do I need to take a diuretic?

Basically, is it necessary to add a diuretic if I'm only taking 5mg of oral minoxidil? lol

its not necessary per say.. but there is a risk of water retention, puffy darkness under eyes. it depends of course how every individual handles it. min isn't so good for skin, i think the estradiol helped me with it