EVERYONE Will Get Finasteride Side-Effects Eventually

[user394587]

Ofcourse! The same study you posted also has a "Safety Evaluation" within it.

With contents of the study clearly being innacurate, believing the rest of the efficacy stuff is just asking to be fooled twice.

Furthermore, I don't believe it's just a coincidence that there's a negligible amount of long term studies on Finasteride besides that one, to say something similar, when Finasteride has been available for over 2 decades.

I'm sure the lack of studies has nothing at all to do with there being zero financial incentive and the extreme difficulties in obtaining a relevant sample size for a study intended to span 10 or more years.

So to summarize:

1. You think most people get side effects from finasteride despite having zero evidence of this in a properly controlled environment (for the PFS related studies, read the limitation section in the studies if you don't want to hear it from me).
2. You think finasteride doesn't work over long time periods, despite having clear scientific evidence against this claim.
3. Any studies that show finasteride as being effective over long periods you don't trust because you think limited safety data has significant implications on the efficacy data.
4. You trust studies sponsored by the PFS foundation despite their study methodology being absolute garbage (read the limitation section in the studies if you don't want to hear it from me).
5. You think that every study that involves finasteride safety is secretly funded by big pharma to provide a favorable side effect profile if the funding source isn't disclosed, or even if the study claims it has no conflict of interest.
6. You're willing to rub pyrilutamide on your head after phase III clinical trials are over despite zero evidence that it can halt the balding process over long periods of time, and a safety profile that is being established by big pharma alone, which you have been extremely critical of when it comes to finasteride.
7. Any study that shows a reasonable side effect profile for finasteride you dismiss immediately because "you just know it's BS".
8. The one study that provides some indication of what the incidence of persistent erectile dysfunction is, the same and ONLY study that the PFS foundation cites on their website in their FAQ section about the incidence of PFS (https://www.pfsfoundation.org/frequently-asked-questions/), you dimiss because "you just know" it's higher than that.

I think at this point we probably don't have anything more to discuss, because it's clearly not going to go anywhere.

 

[Micky_007]

I'm sure the lack of studies has nothing at all to do with there being zero financial incentive and the extreme difficulties in obtaining a relevant sample size for a study intended to span 10 or more years.

So to summarize:

1. You think most people get side effects from finasteride despite having zero evidence of this in a properly controlled environment (for the PFS related studies, read the limitation section in the studies if you don't want to hear it from me).
2. You think finasteride doesn't work over long time periods, despite having clear scientific evidence against this claim.
3. Any studies that show finasteride as being effective over long periods you don't trust because you think limited safety data has significant implications on the efficacy data.
4. You trust studies sponsored by the PFS foundation despite their study methodology being absolute garbage (read the limitation section in the studies if you don't want to hear it from me).
5. You think that every study that involves finasteride safety is secretly funded by big pharma to provide a favorable side effect profile if the funding source isn't disclosed, or even if the study claims it has no conflict of interest.
6. You're willing to rub pyrilutamide on your head after phase III clinical trials are over despite zero evidence that it can halt the balding process over long periods of time, and a safety profile that is being established by big pharma alone, which you have been extremely critical of when it comes to finasteride.
7. Any study that shows a reasonable side effect profile for finasteride you dismiss immediately because "you just know it's BS".

I think at this point we probably don't have anything more to discuss, because it's clearly not going to go anywhere.

Pretty much everything you've listed, we have discussed and I have provided studies to prove my point.

The conclusions you've added at the end of each point are warped and false and you try to make it seem as if I along with others like @Pigeon didn't prove you wrong each time, which we did, every single time.

But you seem to forget very quickly, or it's just blatant disregard, like how you just chose to ignore the studies and information that doesn't fit your pro-Finasteride narrative.

 

[user394587]

Pretty much everything you've listed, we have discussed and I have provided studies to prove my point.

The conclusions you've added at the end of each point are warped and false and you try to make it seem as if I along with others like @Pigeon didn't prove you wrong each time, which I did.

But you seem to forget very quickly, or it's just blatant disregard, like how you just chose to ignore the studies and information that doesn't fit your pro-Finasteride narrative.

I didn't ignore any of the studies you posted. I went through their entire methodologies and criticized them for being what they are, heavily limited in scope and not at all informative of the average finasteride user.

I'm not even pro-finasteride, ffs. I think it's a direct detriment to your health, with the only positive benefit being hair maintenance. With that said, I do think it's the most effective thing we have right now that has a manageable side effect profile.

Jesus Christ.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

I didn't ignore any of the studies you posted. I went through their entire methodologies and criticized them for being what they are; trash.

I'm not even pro-finasteride, ffs. I think it's a direct detriment to your health, with the only positive benefit being hair maintenance. With that said, I do think it's the most effective thing we have right now that has manageable side effect profile.

Jesus Christ.

Just let the guy go bald, he has an answer for everything, if his solution is to do nothing while telling everyone finasteride only works for 2 years then that's his choice. At the end of the day its his own battle and if he believes that the progressive loss he is experiencing is sustainable by doing nothing then he obviously knows a lot more about hair loss then you or I.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

I have been on finasteride for almost 22years and my hair is virtually the same as when I started

For clarity, not that anyone is interested, I said my hair is ''virtually'' the same as when I started (virtually meaning nearly; almost)

peoples hair count will decline as we age regardless, but if somebody is too lazy to read the actual post and wants to keep using the term 100% at every opportunity that is up to them.

 

[kidcurry96]

Why is this? I also have the exact same observation. Some brands have worsened my hair and some others have done nearly "a miracle" (no shedding, strong hair, good scalp, and signs of improvement in the temples).

Although it can be stated that the main component is the same, there needs to be a difference necessarily for this to happen...

how long on finasteride?

 

[20YearsOnFin]

Why is this? I also have the exact same observation. Some brands have worsened my hair and some others have done nearly "a miracle" (no shedding, strong hair, good scalp, and signs of improvement in the temples).

Economics I Guess?.....most generics are made in India and were originally formulated and manufactured to be sold to the local market at a price that's affordable to people on incredibly low salaries, people who earn a 1$ a day still need medicines, Ive been on generics for most of my time treating hair loss so I know a few of them do work very well, but it usually means if the brand I am on is discontinued I have to try several brands of generic's before I can settle on one im happy with, as the rest just cause my hair to shed, and continue to miniaturize until cessation.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

Some brands have worsened my hair and some others have done nearly "a miracle" (no shedding, strong hair, good scalp, and signs of improvement in the temples).

I think we are lucky some what, as at least we know what the results should be like if the medicine is working properly for us, so know to try a different brand if we rapidly get worse results. It must be a nightmare though for guys who are just starting out, that don't realize this can be a factor and are watching their hair get worse on a treatment that's meant to be making it better.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

but rather wondered why is it that different brands with the same main component can have different results.

You won't be able to get an much of an official answer or a chemists answer to that as like you said officially they should all be the same. But you could surmise if you want, that its down to economical factors, quality control issues or perhaps just how your body biologically reacts to a particular formula. Ultimately you just have trust your own instincts when the results are a marked difference after a switch and make the necessary adjustments.

There is quite alot of information about subject of generics online if you are interested , and its an acknowledged issue that there can be problems with there efficacy.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

https://www.wolfhair.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Brand-Name-vs-Generic-Finasteride-Jan-Feb-2016.pdf

'Bottle Of Lies' Exposes The Dark Side Of The Generic-Drug Boom

A new book investigates the history of unsafe and deceptive practices by some generic-drug manufacturers, and explains why U.S. regulators struggle to keep up with a global industry.

www.npr.org

 

[Micky_007]

I didn't ignore any of the studies you posted. I went through their entire methodologies and criticized them for being what they are, heavily limited in scope and not at all informative of the average finasteride user.

I'm not even pro-finasteride, ffs. I think it's a direct detriment to your health, with the only positive benefit being hair maintenance. With that said, I do think it's the most effective thing we have right now that has a manageable side effect profile.

Jesus Christ.

You fail to realize that you can have all the double blind studies but the results can still be manipulated and falsified.

There is no financial incentive to be anti-Finasteride so even though some anti-Finasteride studies don't always have the most expensive studies, at least their doing it with honest money and are not like the pro-Finasteride studies that are funded by Big Pharma secretly to overstate efficacy and understate the side effect profile and rate.
I Literally showed you articles from Harvard University, CNN, Drugwatch.com, etc stating this.
They also stated that in the US, death by prescribed medication is the 4th leading cause of death. That obviously says a great deal about the safety and efficacy of treatments being that "pass" the FDA clinical trial process.
And if FDA is approving stuff like this clearly on a very regular basis, it's naive to believe they wouldn't have lowered standards and understated side effects of Finasteride and overesrated efficacy.

And if the FDA of all regulatory bodies are doing it but claim to be honest, do you really think all these smaller Pro-Finasteride studies can be trusted? Definitely not. Especially when theres so many other studies that show how dangerous Finasteride is.

We have provided many studies showing how even the FDA can be trusted to pass safe and efficacious drugs but rather befriend Big Pharma and also lower requirements for FDA approval to appease Big Pharma.

Then we have conflicts of interest with dermatologists or surgeons who prescribe Finasteride, also creating pro-Finasteride studies or talking pro-Finasteride. This is common on YouTube as well as with studies.
The hairloss industry is a business to both doctors, dermatologists, hair surgeons and Big Pharma and telling people 1 of only 2 FDA approved treatments (Finasteride) is dangerous, it would obviously scare away a large % of their patients which makes up a large portion of their salaries.

Furthermore, the study which recruited people who had sides on Finasteride still proves an excellent point about just how many people which have Finasteride sides, end up having those sides long term/permanently.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

 

[user394587]

You fail to realize that you can have all the double blind studies but the results can still be manipulated and falsified.

There is no financial incentive to be anti-Finasteride so even though some anti-Finasteride studies don't always have the most expensive studies, at least their doing with honest money and are not like the pro-Finasteride studies that are funded Big Pharma to overstate efficacy and understate the side effect profile and rate.
Literally showed you articles from Harvard University, CNN, Drugwatch.com, etc stating this.
They also stated that in the US, death by prescribed medication is the 4th leading cause of death. That obviously says a great deal about the safety and efficacy of treatments being that "pass" the FDA clinical trial process.
And if FDA is approving stuff like this clearly on a very regular basis, it's naive to believe they wouldn't have done they wouldn't lowered standards and understated side effects of Finasteride and overesrated efficacy.

And if the FDA of all regulatory bodies are doing it but claim to be honest, do you really think all these smaller Pro-Finasteride studies can be trusted? Definitely not. Especially when theres so many other studies that show how dangerous Finasteride is.

We have provided many studies showing how even the FDA can be trusted to pass safe and efficacious drugs but rather befriend Big Pharma and also lower requirements for FDA approval to appease Big Pharma.

Then we have conflicts of interest with dermatologists or surgeons who prescribe Finasteride, also creating pro-Finasteride studies or talking pro-Finasteride. This is common on YouTube as well as with studies.

Furthermore, the study which recruited people who had sides on Finasteride still proves an excellent point about just how many people which have Finasteride sides, end up having those sides long term/permanently.

I'm not going to beat a dead horse repeatedly here. This has gone on long enough. At this point, anyone who stumbles across this dumpster fire of a thread can read through the posts here and decide for themselves what's reasonable.

 

[Micky_007]

Just let the guy go bald, he has an answer for everything, if his solution is to do nothing while telling everyone finasteride only works for 2 years then that's his choice. At the end of the day its his own battle and if he believes that the progressive loss he is experiencing is sustainable by doing nothing then he obviously knows a lot more about hair loss then you or I.

You obviously have reading problems because I literally said Finasteride made my hair far worse when I was on it, so if anything, staying on Finasteride would have probably made me go bald by reflex hyperandrogenicity and upregulation of the AR probably being the side effect of Finasteride.

Funny enough I actually achieve far better results without taking any treatment compared to when I was on Finasteride.

Yet you want to imply not being on Finasteride is going to make me bald. LOL, go try to fool some newbie kid with that line. That scare tactic doesn't work on people like me who are well versed on the topic who knows that's total BS. There many many many people who go bald and have far worse hair whilst on anti-androgens like Finasteride, heck even my hair went far worse when I stopped Finasteride.

Luckily I stopped that poison (Finasteride) and my hair has recovered by around 80% after about a year.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

Yet you want to imply not being on Finasteride is going to make me bald

Nope I never said that, having genetic male pattern hair loss is going to make you go bald

Hair loss is a progressive condition, if you are happy to let things playout and are happy with the idea of your hair slowly and progressively declining every day for the next couple of decades then that is your choice.

The goal of any long term hair loss prevention regimen is too maintain as much of your hair as you can, I have never suggested to anyone How they should do that, or what treatments they ''HAVE'' to use. That is entirely for them to decide for themselves based on what regimen works for them and what gives them the success they require.

All I am doing is commenting on what I have used and what I have done for the last 27years to stop my hair loss progressing to its natural norwood pattern.

What you do or not do is of no concern of mine, my only concern is when you make comments suggesting treatment's only work for a couple of years at best, this is misleading to readers and irrespective on whether i have 27 years of personal hair maintenance experience or not what you are saying is clearly false.

Anyway I wish you all the best on your hair loss journey, and if you want, let me know in 10 years how you got on.

 

[Micky_007]

Nope I never said that, having genetic male pattern hair loss is going to make you go bald

Hair loss is a progressive condition, if you are happy to let things playout and are happy with the idea of your hair slowly and progressively declining every day for the next couple of decades then that is your choice.

The goal of any long term hair loss prevention regimen is too maintain as much of your hair as you can, I have never suggested to anyone How they should do that, or what treatments they ''HAVE'' to use. That is entirely for them to decide for themselves based on what regimen works for them and what gives them the success they require.

All I am doing is commenting on what I have used and what I have done for the last 27years to stop my hair loss progressing to its natural norwood pattern.

What you do or not do is of no concern of mine, my only concern is when you make comments suggesting treatment's only work for a couple of years at best, this is misleading to readers and irrespective on whether i have 27 years of personal hair maintenance experience or not what you are saying is clearly false.

Anyway I wish you all the best on your hair loss journey, and if you want, let me know in 10 years how you got on.

Glad we have come to this conclusion. I will be starting Minoxidil + Microneedling most probably within the next 6 months, so that's an effective treatment for many, myself included, then I most likely will use Pyrilutamide in 2023, if it's trial results are good and it's released then, but if not I still wouldn't touch any other anti-androgen.

Thank you for the well wishes and I wish you the best on your hairloss journey as well.

I look forward to contacting you in 10 years as a NW1, as I feel confident within such timelines that there will be sufficient treatments available to halt hairloss and provide better regrowth than all current treatments which include the current surgical routes.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

Glad we have come to this conclusion. I will be starting Minoxidil + Microneedling most probably within the next 6 months, so that's an effective treatment for many, myself included, then I most likely will use Pyrilutamide in 2023, if it's trial results are good and it's released then, but if not I still wouldn't touch any other anti-androgen.

Thank you for the well wishes and I wish you the best on your hairloss journey as well.

I look forward to contacting you in 10 years as a NW1, as I feel confident within such timelines that there will be sufficient treatments available to halt hairloss and provide better regrowth than all current treatments which include the current surgical routes.

Ok cool, thanks for the update,

 

[Merckilled]

I have created this account to report my story. I know it is another anecdote and might not sway opinions but I would like to share it. I have been lurking here for a while now and have read both sides of the argument.

Around November 2019 I stumbled on Kevin Mann and MPMD channels. At the time even Derek didn't seem too concerned about finasteride. They painted a picture that all sides are rare, temporary and most probably nocebo. I had a close friend who took it many years ago and had been dealing with depression ever since but I dismiss it his experience as probably unrelated. I read tressless and understood that nocebo is very real and then even read the propecia help forum and thought these people are crazy. They must be very unhealthy and overweight. I am a gym rat and take meticulous care of my diet and health this would never happen to me. I even consulted my dermatologist friend who has been taking it for a few years with no sides according to him. He encouraged me to start I decided to start treatment for the new year and went to my family doctor and he agreed to give me a script for a few weeks and referred to a derm for the rest who prescribed the rest. They both mentioned side effects but said it was transient and only affected less than 2% of people. Pharmacists are so busy they just hand you the med and mention briefly sides like lowered sperm quality. Of course I didn't care, at that time my mind was fully made up and was convinced 'DHT is a trash hormone'. Still, I had a little seed of doubt in my heart and wanted to play safe, so I asked a compounding pharmacist I knew to make it into a topical solution. I used it for a total of 3 weeks.

Within those 3 weeks all hell broke loose. My nipples start itching and burning by the 2nd week and by the beginning of the 3rd week I had an even worse side effect. When I was young I dealt with an autoimmune in one specific tiny area that turns the skin white. It was restricted to my ball area and faded in my teenager years all good. The finasteride somehow reactivate it and my ball was now burning and skin depigmented. I immediately stopped. Read this LINK and I understand that 5AR or DHT seems to have a protective effect on auto-immune disease. It seems to the reason females are more prone to them due to lack of protective androgens.

After discontinuation, my breasts continued to be swelled. I didnt not get gyno but the shape of my chest has changed drastically to look more droopy like an old female despite me exercising daily with a strict diet. The white spot continued to burn but subsided after a month however still de-pigmented. I thought the worse was over and I dodged the libido bullet. In fact, my sex drive was much higher than usual during and right after the finasteride. I was very wrong because my real problems would start a few months down the line. One day I woke up with a dead penis. No more morning wood no sex drive. Even masturbating which I used to do daily many times was no longer enjoyable. Worse, my penis atrophied immediately. It started to retract as I walk to sit. Flaccid size has gone to nothing while my erect length is at least 1.5 inches shorter and lost girth as well. Keep in my mind I had an above average penis over 7' which is in line with OP theories.

Over the years other side effect kicked in. Weight gain around midsection, Constipation, Complete loss of sexual desire, Nail problems, Dry skin, Social anxiety (I used to be very introverted). Those side effects rotate but I still maintain a healthy lifestyle and an exercise regimen but it is much harder. The way my penis looks makes me experience depersonalization and suicidal thoughts. I have completely stopped checking on it.

So far I have spent around $7,000 in multiple therapies. PRP (to the penis), Shockwave, mind therapies and many supplements. Some areas are slowly improving although to date my penis remains non-functional but hoping for improvement one day.

I thought I had good medical knowledge when I signed up for finasteride but in reality I was very ignorant and misinformed. I didn't understand how important the 5ARs that I am blocking are and their role beyond creating DHT. I thought if anything topical wouldn't go systemic (wrong). I wish I had read the studies that Pigeon linked. This is why his work here is very important. The sad part is my hair loss wasn't even that bad and was doing well with dermarolling. I was NW2 at 34 and well settled with a gf. Now my life is a mix of anxiety and doom and gloom but I am trying to be positive. I am an unreported statistic, the prescribing dermatologist has no idea. I have informed my family doctor who is clueless and visited countless urologists who couldn't help. I am not going to be reported as a victim that's how the system works and it is not like I can sue anyone.

I am not sure how many guys will get side effects. My gut feeling is that it is much higher than Merck claims. Maybe a certain genotype is more prone to getting them. Maybe some bodies aren't that reliant on 5AR but that doesn't make sense to me. I cannot really explain how people go 10-20 years on this medication when I was decimated in few weeks. It is hard not to hold resentment in my position. In my opinion, a risk-benefit analysis makes sense for serious conditions not cosmetic. I agreed to low risk of TRANSIENT side effects not permanent life altering ones. And my story is not that unique you can find much worse online. The drug should not be approved by the FDA

 

[20YearsOnFin]

My gut feeling is that it is much higher than Merck claims.

FYI Merck no longer produce any products containing finasteride, so I take it they feel like they have walked away from any further issues.

 

[Micky_007]

I have created this account to report my story. I know it is another anecdote and might not sway opinions but I would like to share it. I have been lurking here for a while now and have read both sides of the argument.

Around November 2019 I stumbled on Kevin Mann and MPMD channels. At the time even Derek didn't seem too concerned about finasteride. They painted a picture that all sides are rare, temporary and most probably nocebo. I had a close friend who took it many years ago and had been dealing with depression ever since but I dismiss it his experience as probably unrelated. I read the tressless and understood that nocebo is very real and then even read the propecia help forum and thought these people are crazy. They must be very unhealthy and overweight. I am a gym rat and take meticulous care of my diet and health this would never happen to me. I even consulted my dermatologist friend who has been taking it for a few years with no sides according to him. He encouraged me to start I decided to start treatment for the new year and went to my family doctor and he agreed to give me a script for a few weeks and referred to a derm for the rest who prescribed the rest. They both mentioned side effects but said it was transient and only affected less than 2% of people. Pharmacists are so busy they just hand you the med and mention briefly sides like lowered sperm quality. Of course I didn't care, at that time my mind was fully made up and was convinced 'DHT is a trash hormone'. I still a little seed of doubt in my heart and wanted to play safe, so I asked a compounding pharmacist I knew to make it into a topical solution. I used it for a total of 3 weeks.

Within those 3 weeks all hell broke loose. My nipples start itching and burning by the 2nd week and by the beginning of the 3rd week I had an even worse side effect. When I was young I dealt with an autoimmune in one specific tiny area that turns the skin white. It was restricted to my ball area and faded in my teenager years all good. The finasteride somehow reactivate it and my ball was now burning and skin depigmented. I immediately stopped. Read this LINK and I understand that 5AR or DHT seems to have a protective effect on auto-immune disease. It seems to the reason females are more prone to them due to lack of protective androgens.

After discontinuation, my breasts continued to be swelled. I didnt not get gyno but the shape of my chest has changed drastically to look more droopy like an old female despite me exercising daily with a strict diet. The white spot continued to burn but subsided after a month however still de-pigmented. I thought the worse was over and I dodged the libido bullet. In fact, my sex drive was much higher than usual during and right after the finasteride. I was very wrong because my real problems would start a few months down the line. One day I woke up with a dead penis. No more morning wood no sex drive. Even masturbating which I used to do daily many times was no longer enjoyable. Worse, my penis atrophied immediately. It started to retract as I walk to sit. Flaccid size has gone to nothing while my erect length is at least 1.5 inches shorter and lost girth as well. Keep in my mind I had an above average penis over 7' which is in line with OP theories.

Over the years other side effect kicked in. Weight gain around midsection, Constipation, Complete loss of sexual desire, Nail problems, Dry skin, Social anxiety (I used to be very introverted). Those side effects rotate but I still maintain a healthy lifestyle and an exercise regimen but it is much harder. The way my penis looks makes me experience depersonalization and suicidal thoughts. I have completely stopped checking on it.

So far I have spent around $7,000 in multiple therapies. PRP (to the penis), Shockwave, mind therapies and many supplements. Some areas are slowly improving although to date my penis remains non-functional but hoping for improvement one day.

I thought I had good medical knowledge when I signed up for finasteride but in reality I was very ignorant and misinformed. I didn't understand how important the 5ARs that I am blocking are and their role beyond creating DHT. I thought if anything topical wouldn't go systemic (wrong). I wish I had read the studies that Pigeon linked. This is why his work here is very important. The sad part is my hair loss wasn't even that bad and was doing well with dermarolling. I was NW2 at 34 and well settled with a gf. Now my life is a mix of anxiety and doom and gloom but I am trying to be positive. I am an unreported statistic, the prescribing dermatologist has no idea. I have informed my family doctor who is clueless and visited countless urologists who couldn't help. I am not going to be reported as a victim that's how the system works and it is not like I can sue anyone.

I am not sure how many guys will get side effects. My gut feeling is that it is much higher than Merck claims. Maybe a certain genotype is more prone to getting them. Maybe some bodies aren't that reliant on 5AR but that doesn't make sense to me. I cannot really explain how people go 10-20 years on this medication when I was decimated in few weeks. It is hard not to hold resentment in my position. In my opinion, a risk-benefit analysis makes sense for serious conditions not cosmetic. I agree to low risk of TRANSIENT side effects not permanent life altering ones. And my story is not that unique you can find much worse online. The drug should not be approved by the FDA

Thanks for sharing your experience. Sorry this happened to you as well as many many many others here and all over the world. 100% agree with you.