EVERYONE Will Get Finasteride Side-Effects Eventually

[Norwoody]

Hemingway has a point. DHT is actually really beneficial. If you can stop your hair loss with a treatment that can avoid messing too much with DHT, why not? IMO the goal for anyone in the early stages should be to lean more towards treatments that avoid systemically messing with your hormones. The body isn't just producing all this DHT for nothing. Obviously, you can still get away with blocking a good amount of it and not having it affect your daily life, particularly if it's only type IIAR, or if used topically. My point is that, the ultimate cure would not change your hormones. I realize that is hypothetical and unrealistic, but I totally understand the rationale of not wanting to block DHT if you don't have to. The only major benefit to blocking it is potentially more hair or shrinking the prostate. There are numerous potential side effects though. Now for some it is worth the hair, for some it is not. Some people appear to be fine on these drugs and some people are not. But I have no specific desire to avoid DHT in and of itself.

This brings me to my next point. With finasteride, I did not even have any debilitating side effects. Actually, I got hyperandrogenicity from it. But I stuck with it for quite a while because it's part of the over-hyped "big 3". It still baffles me that the first main treatment that is promoted is systemically blocking DHT and using a topical stimulant. Why not go the other way around? I did better on a topical called fluridil and oral minoxidil than I did on oral finasteride and topical minoxidil. I am not saying that it is going to be superior for everyone, and obviously there are risks of side effects with oral minoxidil. My point is that I do agree with a few people here that the systemic inhibition route is dogmatically spread on these forums. Now, I am not saying that "the big 3" is ineffective and laden with side effects. What I am saying is, there are better ways of getting desired results. The first go-to should not be copied and pasted from another random person, no matter what kind of results or side effects they had.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

My scalp is awful by itself, i have seborrheic dermatitis and applying anything makes me itchy as hell.

Try avoiding any mass produced shampoos for starters if you can. the chemicals in most shampoos are way too irritating if you already have sebderm.

 

[nicoandgello]

Try avoiding any mass produced shampoos for starters if you can. the chemicals in most shampoos are way too irritating if you already have sebderm.

I use nizoral and ACV bar alternately, because if i use only nizoral it makes it worse actually.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

I use nizoral and ACV bar alternately, because if i use only nizoral it makes it worse actually.

I still use Nizoral maybe once a month or whenever I need to calm my scalp down fast, but for daily washing I don't let any soap, shampoo or sls product near my scalp or face. its the biggest thing I learnt for controlling sebderm, (for me anyway)

 

[JohnSmith21]

Problem is low dose oral fina has the same effect as high dose oral fina so it's not safer. And yes we need studies about topical duta, so far a couple of guys on here who had side effects from oral and even topical fina do not have sides from topical duta.

Topical duta definitely has a lot of promise. I’m just not ready to try something that will either be ineffective , or go systemic. The fact that it has to get into a “sweet spot” in the scalp where it isn’t systemic but is still having benefits seems hard to achieve

 

[JohnSmith21]

Hemingway has a point. DHT is actually really beneficial. If you can stop your hair loss with a treatment that can avoid messing too much with DHT, why not? IMO the goal for anyone in the early stages should be to lean more towards treatments that avoid systemically messing with your hormones. The body isn't just producing all this DHT for nothing. Obviously, you can still get away with blocking a good amount of it and not having it affect your daily life, particularly if it's only type IIAR, or if used topically. My point is that, the ultimate cure would not change your hormones. I realize that is hypothetical and unrealistic, but I totally understand the rationale of not wanting to block DHT if you don't have to. The only major benefit to blocking it is potentially more hair or shrinking the prostate. There are numerous potential side effects though. Now for some it is worth the hair, for some it is not. Some people appear to be fine on these drugs and some people are not. But I have no specific desire to avoid DHT in and of itself.

This brings me to my next point. With finasteride, I did not even have any debilitating side effects. Actually, I got hyperandrogenicity from it. But I stuck with it for quite a while because it's part of the over-hyped "big 3". It still baffles me that the first main treatment that is promoted is systemically blocking DHT and using a topical stimulant. Why not go the other way around? I did better on a topical called fluridil and oral minoxidil than I did on oral finasteride and topical minoxidil. I am not saying that it is going to be superior for everyone, and obviously there are risks of side effects with oral minoxidil. My point is that I do agree with a few people here that the systemic inhibition route is dogmatically spread on these forums. Now, I am not saying that "the big 3" is ineffective and laden with side effects. What I am saying is, there are better ways of getting desired results. The first go-to should not be copied and pasted from another random person, no matter what kind of results or side effects they had.

The issue with this idea is that finasteride is a pause button for most people. If you start with bs and lose more hair, and end up on finasteride anyway, your gonna regret not starting early. Personally finasteride didn’t really give me any regrowth, just Maintance. I’d be pissed if I waited an extra year trying something potentially useless

 

[20YearsOnFin]

For alot of people a regime that uses once or twice daily applications of topicals would never be a option, you have to be a certain type of person to commit to that throughout your entire 20's, 30's and 40's

 

[Norwoody]

The issue with this idea is that finasteride is a pause button for most people. If you start with bs and lose more hair, and end up on finasteride anyway, your gonna regret not starting early. Personally finasteride didn’t really give me any regrowth, just Maintance. I’d be pissed if I waited an extra year trying something potentially useless

Well I saw noticeable regrowth with just a few months on oral minoxidil and I did not on nearly 2 years on finasteride. Why did I start on finasteride? Obviously, because everyone just says to hop on finasteride as the first line of defense, so that's what I did, and it was a waste. Hopping on finasteride should not be the one-size-fits all approach that it has become. For some people, yes. But a lot of other people really should be more shrewd in their decision to make sure it's the best decision that can be made in the present moment.

 

[nicoandgello]

Well I saw noticeable regrowth with just a few months on oral minoxidil and I did not on nearly 2 years on finasteride. Why did I start on finasteride? Obviously, because everyone just says to hop on finasteride as the first line of defense, so that's what I did, and it was a waste. Hopping on finasteride should not be the one-size-fits all approach that it has become. For some people, yes. But a lot of other people really should be more shrewd in their decision to make sure it's the best decision that can be made in the present moment.

Good for you man, but i think that using AA or 5AR inhibitor is one size fits all treatment when it comes to androgenic alopecia. Oral minoxidil is great growth stimulant but it wont stop follicles from miniaturisation.

 

[Norwoody]

"Just hop on finasteride bro!" is likely the first thing you'll hear. It does work for quite a few people. But for many others, they could do better. I'll say that there are probably even a few people who should hop on dutasteride, depending on their situation. The problem is that there is a dogmatic mindset of "hair loss first line of defense = finasteride". First, you have to establish what kind of hair loss is it? For how long? Where is the hair loss located? What kind of medications and changes in lifestyle have you experienced? If available, what have your hormones been like? What's the situation of your scalp like? What do the shed hairs look like? Family history? Etc., etc. The answers to those questions might actually show you that there may be better alternatives.

 

[nicoandgello]

"Just hop on finasteride bro!" is likely the first thing you'll hear. It does work for quite a few people. But for many others, they could do better. I'll say that there are probably even a few people who should hop on dutasteride, depending on their situation. The problem is that there is a dogmatic mindset of "hair loss first line of defense = finasteride". First, you have to establish what kind of hair loss is it? For how long? Where is the hair loss located? What kind of medications and changes in lifestyle have you experienced? If available, what have your hormones been like? What's the situation of your scalp like? What do the shed hairs look like? Family history? Etc., etc. The answers to those questions might actually show you that there may be better alternatives.

Agree, some people can maintain and see regrowth using zix or saw palmetto. Some people will lose hair even on hrt. Finasteride is definitely not a cure and people treat it like a candy.

 

[Norwoody]

Good for you man, but i think that using AA or 5AR inhibitor is one size fits all treatment when it comes to androgenic alopecia. Oral minoxidil is great growth stimulant but it wont stop follicles from miniaturisation.

Your follicles are either growing or shrinking. So actually stimulants do prevent miniaturization. That being said, the pathway that they do it is indirect. It obviously isn't defending against DHT, but it's like having such a powerful offense that you don't need to have a strong defense to win the battle against loss. Estrogen is technically a stimulant, but guess what, it's also an AA. Of course the most sure way to attack the problem is from all angles (boosting both defense and offense). But there are consequences to either. I see many men suffering from inadequate systemic DHT when they could be addressing the issue from an alternate route like topical 5ARIs, RU/ other AAs, estrogen, needling, castor oil, etc.

 

[Norwoody]

Agree, some people can maintain and see regrowth using zix or saw palmetto. Some people will lose hair even on hrt. Finasteride is definitely not a cure and people treat it like a candy.

Exactly. That's what I mean. If you can use SP and only decrease your DHT by 30% systemically, and maintain your hair on it without side effects, that's huge and you've learned a lot about your body.

I think that there is also a lack of long term planning. For example, you can titrate upwards - start by figuring out what stops the shedding, say someone finds that SP + topical minoxidil does that. But they have a goal of regrowth. So maybe for a while they add some other treatments until they get desired regrowth. Then back down to what they know maintains their hair. If your hair loss is aggressive, maybe you start off with a high dose of dutasteride and gradually titrate downwards. If someone is a hyper responder to finasteride, perhaps they can maintain on CB alone. Everyone is different and a lot of times side effects can probably be avoided by systematically figuring out the minimal effective dosage and maximal effective treatment.

 

[Norwoody]

There's just so many factors that an individual may need to address - AR sensitivity, AR upregulation, ER downregulation, lack of aromatase, epitestosterone, PGE2/PGD2, etc. And finasteride doesn't really directly address any of those. I'm not saying it's a bad treatment. What I am saying is that many roads lead to Rome and often times people are only choosing the path that is most treaded instead of finding a better way.

 

[sonictemples]

Topical duta actually seems more sketchy to me then low dose oral finasteride. That’s another thing that seems promising , but there isn’t enough evidence for. Also I’d be worried about the duta going systemic , despite the molecules being bigger. or I’d be worried it wasn’t doing anything at all. I believe sonic temples is also on oral finasteride but I’m not sure

I am not on oral fina. It goes systemic to a degree but you can prevent accumulation by appyling it once a week

 

[nicoandgello]

I am not on oral fina. It goes systemic to a degree but you can prevent accumulation by appyling it once a week

Isn't the whole point of using 5AR inhibitor to accumulate and block DHT. I don't see how using topical once a week could help. Do you have any study or anecdotal evidence of it being worth it?

 

[JohnSmith21]

Well I saw noticeable regrowth with just a few months on oral minoxidil and I did not on nearly 2 years on finasteride. Why did I start on finasteride? Obviously, because everyone just says to hop on finasteride as the first line of defense, so that's what I did, and it was a waste. Hopping on finasteride should not be the one-size-fits all approach that it has become. For some people, yes. But a lot of other people really should be more shrewd in their decision to make sure it's the best decision that can be made in the present moment.

Finasteride stops further loss. It isn’t a regrowth tool. Minoxidil is used for regrowth. That’s why you had that experience. Oral minoxidil also has more sides effects and it’s much more dangerous then finasteride.

 

[JohnSmith21]

The reason why so many people suggest finasteride, and the reason why it’s a one size fits all approach, is because it sadly is the only proven effective treatment in the last 20 years. Does it suck to alter hormones to keep hair? Of course. Can people get sides? Of course. Is the risk of sides low, and do they go away when you stop? Yes. So it’s up to you. If things like zix really worked it would be more mainstream by doctors and companies. The fact that you have to make it yourself , and the concept has been around for like 20 years is proof of its ineffectiveness. Hair loss is a big market, and people hate taking finasteride (myself included), so if zix really worked companies would be eager to patent a formula and market it as an alternative to fins sexual sides and mins ineffectiveness/ bloating problems. Why do you think Nutrafol is a multi million dollar company ? Cuz this sh*t sells. Believe me. Zix has been around since early 2000s. If it ACTUALLY made a significant difference people would be studying and selling it.

 

[sonictemples]

Isn't the whole point of using 5AR inhibitor to accumulate and block DHT. I don't see how using topical once a week could help. Do you have any study or anecdotal evidence of it being worth it?

It builds up in scalp faster. We have multiple blood tests and one biopsy.

 

[JohnSmith21]

Personally I think oral minoxidil’s blood pressure and heart sides, along with the fact that it can bloat you and destroy collagen, makes it an absurd long term solution to hair loss, cuz it can cause different cosmetic issues AND legitimately dangerous real health issues. If your pro oral min and anti finasteride, then I’m sorry your definition of dangerous is suspect. If I couldn’t handle finasteride due to sides, I certainly would not go on oral min. I’d explore transplant routes.