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There are literally no reports online claiming the US has anywhere near the best healthcare in the world, normally doesn't even make the top 10.
EVERYONE Will Get Finasteride Side-Effects Eventually
- Thread starter hemingway_the_mercenary
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There are literally no reports online claiming the US has anywhere near the best healthcare in the world, normally doesn't even make the top 10.
Even the FDA isn't reliable or safe I mentioned this multiple times. I've posted already multiple articles about this from Harvard, Drugwatch.com, CNN, and other highly reputable sources.
Serious Risks And Few New Benefits From FDA-Approved Drugs | Health Affairs Blog
Let's look at the Food and Drug Administration’s failure to protect the 170 million Americans who take prescription drugs from adverse reactions that are killing more than 2,400 people every week. Annually, prescription drugs cause over 81 million adverse reactions and result in 2.7 million...
www.healthaffairs.org
Misplaced Trust: Why FDA Approval Doesn’t Guarantee Drug Safety
Americans trust that drugs approved by the FDA are safe, but this is not always the case. We hear from advocate Kim Witczak, who lost her husband in 2003.
www.drugwatch.com
"The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is supposed to protect Americans from harmful drugs. But in reality, FDA-approval does not guarantee safety. Critics say Big Pharma funds FDA reviews of new drugs, creating a conflict of interest. The agency is too focused on approving drugs to appease Big Pharma and it lacks the proper authority and funding to protect the public"
Like I always say, Big Pharma secretly funds trials. It's pretty obvious the FDA can't be trusted as well as those pro-Finasteride studies which can easily be secretly funded by Big Pharma, especially when theres so many studies that prove completely opposite results showing how bad Finasteride truly can be.
Even Merck themselves admit not knowing what the long term effects are for younger men in their official FDA approval letter:
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I was taking the piss.
Why are you comparing to the US when I've never praised the US regulatory bodies? Both the UK and the US regulatory bodies are corrupt. It's a money rigged system. I know both are crap.
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hallelujah, we finally got there, if you know all of that, then you should realize the only opinion in the world you should trust is your own.
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yet you only seem to swear by a very small minorities that share a similar agenda.
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I didn't get that? I don't swear by anything , My views are my own, i don't share other peoples views on most things and I don't have an agenda.
apart from that you are right
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My main view on finasteride ED side effects, is this, when I started taking it in 2000, it was know that it can cause ED, the pamphlet said it, doctors were saying it and the forums were saying it, in spite of this I still took it, that was my decision that I made almost 22 years ago, back then It was self prescribed by myself, but my position is still the same now as it was then, had I gotten ED from it, that wouldn't have made me anti-finasteride, I would have been annoyed yes, felt foolish yes, but ultimately it was my choice to take a drug that has a know side effect of ED.
Fast forward almost 22years and people are still talking about the same thing, if people in the US want to blame the FDA or anybody else then its up to them, But like I said, when I took It I was fully aware of the ED issues and blaming anyone else would just make me a hypocrite.
This is my own personal view and opinion, based on my own morals and values if it differs from yours I don't care.
Nobody wants anyone to get sick or suffer from treating hair loss, so if people want to fight to stop this getting prescribed to people who are not aware of these issues then i am all for it, but I can't argue against my own personal experience on the drug and nobody should keep pushing me to do so.
Fast forward almost 22years and people are still talking about the same thing, if people in the US want to blame the FDA or anybody else then its up to them, But like I said, when I took It I was fully aware of the ED issues and blaming anyone else would just make me a hypocrite.
This is my own personal view and opinion, based on my own morals and values if it differs from yours I don't care.
Nobody wants anyone to get sick or suffer from treating hair loss, so if people want to fight to stop this getting prescribed to people who are not aware of these issues then i am all for it, but I can't argue against my own personal experience on the drug and nobody should keep pushing me to do so.
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We ultimately agree on this final point and it is the reason we need to make sure voices are heard and things are changed.
What I disagree with is your obfuscating of key points. You are taking your own experience of having a medication self-prescribed and applying it to everyone. In essence you are blaming the patients for taking risks but finasteride is a medication prescribed by a doctor, yes it is for vanity but it doesn't change the fact that a prescribing doctor examines the pros and cons and gives it to a patient. I see a couple of things being challenged: first the true % of affected people which seems higher than initial Merck studies and the degree of long-term impact. The early finasteride warnings involved transient erection problems and lowered semen which subsided upon stoppage OR when medication continued. This was straight from Merck and it was the information many doctors were operating under and many still are.
This has been updated since but it is not enough as in my opinion ( based on the current research) that the risks outweight the benefits considering it is not a life-threatening medical condition being treated. In a way, you are actually arguing our position. In the end we agree so I don't see the point of your smaller fallacious arguments here. I have no idea what you mean by taking personal responsibility. Do you think a culprit should not be blamed? Should fingers not be pointed to a criminal? Should we all look at ourselves ommm'ing not go after wrong doings that affected our lives? Should we not try to warn others? Another example of absolutely illogical thinking and victim blaming from your part but I understand, it is really easy to dismiss things when you don't yourself experience them. It is called lack of empathy which most proponent of finasteride exhibit from my experience maybe they need to rebalance those neurosteroids...
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I mean people should should take responsibility for themselves because at the end of the day in this world you are the only one you can rely on,
at 34 you need to decide if the cure is worse than the cause, is a Norwood 2 so bad at 34 that you would need to risk taking a drug with a 25 year history of causing ED?
Yes. kind of, im not blaming them but finasteride has been a know to cause serious ED for 25 years, why take it then complain about ED?.
I not arguing any position just sharing my experience.
In my case I have spent the last 20+ years travelling around the world, im not saying that to prove anything, but it just means the only person I trust to look after myself and my family is myself because often there is nobody else around me in that situation to do so, I don't have the comfort blanket or safety net of regulation, or a government to keep me safe, so that's the way my reasoning has developed if that comes across as a lack of empathy to somebody that lives in the apparent safety of the west, then that was not my intention, but it is purely just a consequence of my circumstance.
Yes by all means, but people have been posting on the internet for 20+ years about finasteride ED and it doesn't seam to be reducing the number of people willing to start it.
I would be interested to see the side effect data from places like the UK, with the amount its being prescribed and how easy it has become to obtain since 2014, forums should be rammed with people from the UK with side effects.
At bare minimum in the uk, you just fill out an 8 point questionnaire online and it gets prescribed. Nobody's prescription will get rejected unless you answer a question wrong. Many countries in the world its available over the counter without a prescription.
Outside of the US, in many countries the involvement of a Dr. in the prescribing processes is either non visible non existent.
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Funny how you have quoted everything but ignored the crux of the argument: the pamphlet has changed considerably since inception and the level of risks challenged by recent research and slowly accumulating to an unacceptable level. Many people were prescribed this without being aware of the possibility of long-term or permanent epi-genetic damage myself included. Forums like this one and others you will get the pro-side who say it is all nocebo and deny any PFS data. The risks are many times downplayed and dismissed.
You are rendering the argument completely unintelligible responding in this point-by-point fashion like a teenager on his first exposure of the internet. And yes, whether you admit it or not, you are involved in an argument and a side. You can have opinions but they can be wrong and rebutted. Only difference in your stance is that you don't deny the long-term effects but everything else you wrote is pointless.
Good for your that you have travelled but yet again another irrelevant point while also making assumptions about others and judging them. I am surprised you are as old as you say because you truly lack intellectual maturity.
You are rendering the argument completely unintelligible responding in this point-by-point fashion like a teenager on his first exposure of the internet. And yes, whether you admit it or not, you are involved in an argument and a side. You can have opinions but they can be wrong and rebutted. Only difference in your stance is that you don't deny the long-term effects but everything else you wrote is pointless.
Good for your that you have travelled but yet again another irrelevant point while also making assumptions about others and judging them. I am surprised you are as old as you say because you truly lack intellectual maturity.
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Also ED is the tip of the iceberg the list is much longer and more life altering. It starts with ED progress into mental and physical degeneration and ends with suicide. Your whole argument falls apart when you minimize the impact to simple ED which was supposed to be transient not permanent. Patients need to be made aware of all of the risks. I truly believe you are either trolling or arguing in bad faith.
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Try reading it then.
Im fairly sure I have been using the internet a lot longer than you have.
a bit of both
look' why can you buy finasteride in the UK by filling out an 8 point questionnaire without seeing a doctor , and why can you buy it in Spain without a prescription, the population of Europe is 746.4 million, but the representation of people complaining of side effects from those countries is disproportionately low on any forum ive visited over the last 20 years?
Why is nobody in the UK trying sue the online pharmacy's if they are all suffering from side effects?
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I repeat:
I disagree about what you said about the UK. The UK does not have a high standard when it comes to their medical system.
The UK is the same country that is also allowing drugs/treatment to be administered to people, WITHOUT having completed the clinical trials process as long as the company/doctor doesn't advertise claims of its efficacy.
That just says it all.
I can understand fast tracking the clinical trial process like some Asian countries are doing like Japan but at least they still require clinical trials before administering to people the treatment/drug. But, when you skip the trial process + don't allow the company/doctor to advertise the treatment is literally like saying "if it fails we don't want to take the blame because technically we didn't say it works".
It's actually ludicrous.
Also, who said people from the UK aren't online reporting their side effects on Finasteride? There's lots of people who have been from all over the world reporting their side effects on Finasteride on all major hairloss forums.
Again, we even had a poll on this very forum which is one of the most popular hairloss forums on the internet and we had a majority of people who voted that they had side effects on Finasteride.
The reason why people aren't sueing from the UK, is the same reason people aren't sueing from other countries, people don't have the time and money to do it, it's a too lengthy and time consuming process. That doesn't mean no one in the UK is experiencing sides, because obviously that isn't true.
For example, I got sides on Propecia but I'm not sueing the company, by your logic that means I probably don't have sides purely because I didn't open a lawsuit. Also, I'm pretty sure no one who is anti-Finasteride here that experienced sides is part of the current lawsuit against Propecia, yet they are obviously experiencing sides. So your reasoning does not make sense.
But besides that, there's already a group sueing to have Propecia removed from the market as we speak.
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its disproportionately people from the US, the Europe Market and the global market is huge compared to the US.
My question still stand's In the US people are blaming their Dr.s or the FDA, but why is nobody suing the pharmacies in the UK for finasteride side effects?
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Because you got it prescribed by a doctor, if its as dangerous as you say, then why are the controls on finasteride 1mg so lax in parts of Europe where as the controls on other drugs are so tight. There is no way the drug would be available in the uk if the amount of people you say are effected by permanent sides complained, in the Uk you cannot even buy cough medicine anymore because its considered dangerous.
The USA is 5 times bigger than the UK so of course there would be more people from the US. And I'm not sure where you are getting this assumption that there's less people from Europe that are reporting this stuff on the internet. You don't know the location of 99.999% of the users online.
Also, people rarely report this stuff on official places where the report can be registered as a statistic. It's just too long and tedious to do. Most people won't even know where to register their side effects on Finasteride to appear as a statistic. People find it 10X easier to simply post about it on the internet like ok hairloss forums or websites.
I haven't reported sides on Finasteride on any official website, and neither have any of the people on this website and several other forums and hairloss websites that I have spoken to. People don't know how and where to register such complaints to appear as statistics.
It's probably under 0.0001% of people who get sides on Finasteride that even go the extra mile to register their side effects as a statistic.
Also, law suits are usually carried within the same country as the company being sued, the last law suit was against Merck which is a US company.
The current lawsuit, how do you know that no one from the group sueing to have Propecia removed from the market isn't from the UK?
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Europe is twice the size of the US.
Non of this is relevant, if its causing the level of side effect that you are quoting, finasteride would have tighter restrictions in a country where even cough medicine is banned.
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Why is something like Oral Diclofenac banned in UK , ''due to the small risk of heart problems'' but finasteride, one of the most poisonous drugs on the planet is still available?
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There are many people from the UK in the propecia help forum. One of the main guys doing podcasts and such is British.
anyways, there isnt much point engaging with 20yearsonfin, he is being obtuse. He agrees on the risk of the drug but blames the victim as if the risk of permanent effects was a given. As if any sane person would make that gamble for hair. The rest of his arguments are simply him obfuscating with US vs Europe irrelevancies. The point is this drug is not a simple aspirin, it is an especially damaging drug for men and should probably never have been on the market. I would argue it is probably one of the most damaging drugs a man can take which is what some of your European countries like France are recognizing (added to the list of the most dangerous drug).
anyways, there isnt much point engaging with 20yearsonfin, he is being obtuse. He agrees on the risk of the drug but blames the victim as if the risk of permanent effects was a given. As if any sane person would make that gamble for hair. The rest of his arguments are simply him obfuscating with US vs Europe irrelevancies. The point is this drug is not a simple aspirin, it is an especially damaging drug for men and should probably never have been on the market. I would argue it is probably one of the most damaging drugs a man can take which is what some of your European countries like France are recognizing (added to the list of the most dangerous drug).