Do Non-responders Just Have Really High Dht ?

[sunchyme1]

Yes. Finasteride sides are a continuum. The people who lose 10 or 20 percent have no idea.

yeah f*** that.

i wana be like joe rogan or kelly slater. id say those guys feel f*****g amazing. their bald as f*** but must feel great for their age.

 

[DoctorHouse]

Doctor how old r u? hows your weight and energy levels compared to 11 years ago? sex drive? mood?

I started Propecia at 39. I am same weight as I was at that age and actually less body fat now. Energy levels are about the same. Libido is still high. Mood is more positive than it was then. No brain fog.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

yeah f*** that.

i wana be like joe rogan or kelly slater. id say those guys feel f*****g amazing. their bald as f*** but must feel great for their age.

I do too but I doubt it's viable. You need so many assets to pull off the bald look that it's better to hold onto hair.

 

[sunchyme1]

@hairblues what do u think of guys like kelly slater and joe rogan? does the whole masculine thing make up for lack of hair?

would you have dated guys like this if you were younger? or prefer a fullhead not quite so fit and manly?

 

[winnyblues]

@hairblues what do u think of guys like kelly slater and joe rogan? does the whole masculine thing make up for lack of hair?

would you have dated guys like this if you were younger? or prefer a fullhead not quite so fit and manly?

You sound really, really young. Lots of assumptions and clearly not a lot of experience.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

You sound really, really young. Lots of assumptions and clearly not a lot of experience.

Why not offer a clarification rather than a couple insults?

 

[hairblues]

@hairblues what do u think of guys like kelly slater and joe rogan? does the whole masculine thing make up for lack of hair?

would you have dated guys like this if you were younger? or prefer a fullhead not quite so fit and manly?

If i were younger? LOL Joe Rogan is older than me.

 

[jetlife1]

I am not saying its horrible. My point was it's no cure and it does not stop hair loss in its track like some people believe. And some people can go below baseline on it. Another poster on here went to Dr Bauman and he claims finasteride can lose its effectiveness and he recommends them switch to dutasteride.

Always interesting talking to long term users on this forum lol

So I just looked at your previous threads on your profile, and was wondering what happened to the baby hairs on your juvenile hairline over your long term use of Propecia that you mentioned in this old thread: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...uvenile-hairline-area-microscopic-pics.41808/

I have baby hairs on my NW0 territory that seem to be getting thicker with every hair cycle since starting finasteride.

 

[sunchyme1]

If i were younger? LOL Joe Rogan is older than me.

lol i meant as mid 40s girl do you find these guys attractive? or would you prefer hair over masculinity?

 

[DoctorHouse]

Always interesting talking to long term users on this forum lol

So I just looked at your previous threads on your profile, and was wondering what happened to the baby hairs on your juvenile hairline over your long term use of Propecia that you mentioned in this old thread: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...uvenile-hairline-area-microscopic-pics.41808/

I have baby hairs on my NW0 territory that seem to be getting thicker with every hair cycle since starting finasteride.

Lost them later. Never amounted to anything.

 

[sunchyme1]

You sound really, really young. Lots of assumptions and clearly not a lot of experience.

lol wtf

ive plenty of experience just not as a bald guy. and its f*****g scary to be approaching that. im trying to be positive about it when it happens.

 

[hairblues]

lol wtf

ive plenty of experience just not as a bald guy. and its f*****g scary to be approaching that. im trying to be positive about it when it happens.

there baldness in my opinion did not detract form looks--i think that is better way for me to say it.

 

[afferd]

I cant remember what it is called but there is something else beside DHT they talk about with women and hair loss in scalp (not iron although that too) it starts with an A i think...but i always wondered if THAT fucks up womens hair--why would it not be a possible cause for mens hair loss as well.
Sorry i cant think of what it was in more detail but it was something also genetic and i think it was hormonal.
It was to explain why some women don't respond to spironolactone (our anti DHT oral med).

Also there is some argument about a hybrid of male hair loss and Areata...I read a derma pathologist from Australia paper on it..its been quoted in medical text books also as a possible cause--BUT no one has done studies on it.

It's so frustrating how medical community does not do more studies on hair loss.
Its like where is the medical curiosity even?

@hairblues - Interesting - f you wouldn't mind racking your brain for words beginning with the letter "a" - I'd be interested in reading a bit more.

 

[afferd]

It makes sense logically that those with higher dht would be better responders. This is because dht levels don't dictate whether a person is bald or not. I believe that there is a dht threshold and if above this, a person starts to bald. So if a person is balding, they would need to lower their dht below this level. This means that this threshold can be anywhere below this person's current level. There are simply more numbers below a high number than there is a low number.

Also, since dht is lowered by a percentage by finasteride, a higher base level would be more of a drastic change in dht level.

It would be interesting to find out if side effects are more common if one goes below the minimum level of dht needed for sexual function or if even drastic changes cause side effects as well. By this I mean going from like 85ng/mL to like 30ng/mL. 30 is still above the minimum commonly cited level of acceptable dht but this is still a huge change in what this hypothetical person's dht once was. Would this huge drop cause side effects? Or are side effects more common in those with moderate dht levels since they would experience a huge drop and potentially below the minimum level? Or do those with low base dht experience more side effects because they were low to begin with?

Interesting - but I kind of view it the other way around. My baseline DHT levels are so high that taking finasteride/dutasteride hardly makes a dent and that's why I haven't really had any sides (and why I'm still losing ground).

I think I'm going to put together a thread just on test results (or maybe start collecting results from here and then share them).

Do you have any before and after DHT results?

 

[hairblues]

@hairblues - Interesting - f you wouldn't mind racking your brain for words beginning with the letter "a" - I'd be interested in reading a bit more.

this quote explains some of the differences between male/female hair loss sorry if I misunderstood it, i read all this stuff a while ago.

from Bernstein medical.
Adding to this complexity, in women, the enzyme aromatase is responsible for the formation of the female hormones, estrone and estradiol, counteract the action of DHT. Women have higher levels of aromatase than men, especially at the frontal hairline. It is this presence of aromatase which may help explain why hair loss in women looks so different than in men, particularly with respect to the preservation of the frontal hairline. It may also explain why women have a poor response to the drug finasteride (Propecia), a medication widely used to treat hair loss in men that works by blocking the formation of DHT.

this is also an interesting article/study
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/studies/research-studies/aromatase-estrogen-role-hair-growth/


There are medications that are aromatase inhibitors that can cause hair loss or make women with FPHL worse,
The A inhibitors i think are mostly taken to prevent breast cancer and do that by slowing down estrogen synthesis i think....which leads to hair loss.

 

[Alk]

Always interesting talking to long term users on this forum lol

So I just looked at your previous threads on your profile, and was wondering what happened to the baby hairs on your juvenile hairline over your long term use of Propecia that you mentioned in this old thread: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...uvenile-hairline-area-microscopic-pics.41808/

I have baby hairs on my NW0 territory that seem to be getting thicker with every hair cycle since starting finasteride.

Little hairs on ur nw0 territory? Do you have pics of your hairline before and after finasteride u can share

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I'm not sure if it's the aromatase per se that helps hair, rather it's the estrogen that aromatase increases.

Body fat cells produce aromatase, which converts testosterone to estrogen. It's why some bodybuilders advise against steroids in fat people.

It is all confusing.

 

[afferd]

@Switzer - don't think I've met you here before, hi! Just read both the studys - feel free to send more my way.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18363752/

Makes absolute sense that the younger you start the better the long term results, but I wonder if the <26 year old's in the study would have increased DHT levels later in life (say 10 years) compared to a 36 year old in the study (when controlled for the DHT reduction of finasteride).​

i.e. I wonder if starting finasteride at a younger age slows down the acceleration of DHT later in life?​

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3969676/

Another interesting study, but why the hell would they use a subjective measure of how pileous (hairy) a subject feels instead of just counting physical hairs in particular areas. Also they didn't evaluate the hormonal difference between Group A and B. Seems like quite a flawed study.​

You'd think if you're going to look at 45 subjects over 7 years it might be a good idea to do some basic blood tests and count a few hairs...interesting nevertheless.​

As for myself, I don't have a lot of body hair and I continue to lose my hair after 1,5 years on finasteride.

Did you ever get any DHT test results during the 1.5 yrs that you wouldn't mind sharing?

 

[afferd]

I have 438 and it kind of works for me, but I cannot say if the things are linked.

really low dht , but not the positive effect . great !

If my calculations are correct...

____________________________________________________

Roberto_72           438   pmol/L   =   0.12   pg/ml
____________________________________________________

michel sapin LOW     477   pmol/L   =   0.13   pg/ml
michel sapin HIGH   2056   pmol/L   =   0.56   pg/ml

France LOW          1468   pmol/L   =   0.40   pg/ml
France HIGH         5066   pmol/L   =   1.38   pg/ml
____________________________________________________

afferd LOW          3988   pmol/L   =   1.09   pg/ml
afferd HIGH         6509   pmol/L   =   1.77   pg/ml

Canada LOW           860   pmol/L   =   0.23   pg/ml
Canada HIGH         3406   pmol/L   =   0.93   pg/ml
____________________________________________________

David_MPN HIGH      1000   pmol/L   =   0.27   pg/ml

Australia LOW        400   pmol/L   =   0.11   pg/ml
Australia HIGH      2500   pmol/L   =   0.68   pg/ml
____________________________________________________

Samson123 LOW       1200   pmol/L   =   0.33   pg/ml

U.S. LOW            1300   pmol/L   =   0.35   pg/ml
U.S. HIGH           6700   pmol/L   =   1.83   pg/ml
____________________________________________________

You guys are killing it!!!​

I just can't believe you're getting your DHT that low (or can't believe mine is that high).

 

[Samson123]

At about a year on 1.25 mg my DHT was 12 on a reference range of 13-67, don't remember the unit measurements. I only experienced accelerated hairloss/miniaturization all over my head.