2young2retire
Experienced Member
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fred the troll lol/
Detumescence Therapy of Human Scalp for Natural Hair Regrowth
- Thread starter benjt
- Start date
Don't write it off too quick. There might be something to this.
I'll be checking out the studies in the mean time
There is, and will never be a cure for male pattern baldness without genetic engineering.
isishearmyplea
Experienced Member
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- 42
pfft they are just longer hair. if you get a buzz cut again sometime soon we d love to see your improvements.
bushbush
Established Member
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It isn't always necessary to go to the level of the gene to tackle disease pathogenesis or phenotypic traits. Most people would consider a hypothetical repeat application drug that normalised expressed protein levels (i.e. PDG2) an effective 'cure'.
The 'study' this 'detumescence therapy' nonsense is based on reads more like a poor undergraduate biology essay. Just count the number of spelling mistakes and grammatical errors.
I guess I'll put my $0.02 in as my first post here! I did start doing scalp massage about 1 month ago. This study is actually what prompted me to start doing it. I do 10 mins in the morning, and 10 mins at night. As far as what kind of massage—none of that relaxing barely touching stuff. I use quite a bit of pressure, and use both hands to press the scalp together to the point where it lifts slightly off the skull.
As far as hair growth is concerned, I'm seeing less and less of my scalp, which is great. I don't know if this is attributed to scalp massage or not though, because I'm also using minoxidil. BUT what I will say is that I've been using minoxidil for a year, and I've only been losing more hair. It has only been recently that I've started to see a little progress; so it's possible that scalp massage is actually helping. Or at the very least, the increase in blood flow to the scalp is helping the minoxidil to do its job better.
The only thing that I'm absolutely sure of is that vigorously massaging my scalp has made it feel MUCH better. The skin feels a little looser and not quite so thick. And that weird "stinging" or uncomfortable sensation is totally gone. I'm gonna do it for a full 6 months and see what happens. So far I have no reason to stop (it's free!).
I'll post some pics if I start to see a more noticeable difference!!!
Good luck to all!
As far as hair growth is concerned, I'm seeing less and less of my scalp, which is great. I don't know if this is attributed to scalp massage or not though, because I'm also using minoxidil. BUT what I will say is that I've been using minoxidil for a year, and I've only been losing more hair. It has only been recently that I've started to see a little progress; so it's possible that scalp massage is actually helping. Or at the very least, the increase in blood flow to the scalp is helping the minoxidil to do its job better.
The only thing that I'm absolutely sure of is that vigorously massaging my scalp has made it feel MUCH better. The skin feels a little looser and not quite so thick. And that weird "stinging" or uncomfortable sensation is totally gone. I'm gonna do it for a full 6 months and see what happens. So far I have no reason to stop (it's free!).
I'll post some pics if I start to see a more noticeable difference!!!
Good luck to all!Yeah, there's definitely a little soreness while I'm doing the massage. But it goes away shortly after. But keeping my hair is definitely worth 20 mins and a little soreness in the fingers!
Besides, I figure that with the constant exercise, my fingers will get used to it after a while.
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A photo of Tom Haguerty
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OIWfJ5-HDzo/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAACw/5aGfDvi31fM/photo.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OIWfJ5-HDzo/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAACw/5aGfDvi31fM/photo.jpg
2young2retire
Experienced Member
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fred even if hairloss wont kill us then you will.
Except that it is not.
A cure in my view, does not need repeatable, nor dependable solutions.
bushbush
Established Member
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In your opinion.
The term 'cure' is subjective.
If we go into semantics, the dictionary definition of a cure: "to relieve (a person or animal) of the symptoms of a disease or condition." It matters not if repeated treatments are required.
It is not an opinion.
The definition of cure is a little ambiguous. A cure is not a temporary relief. Permanent relief is the implied abstract.
A PGD2 disruptor does not differ from any other topical. A relapse will consummate on discontinuation. It does not cure, it treats.
This is ****ing awesome. I dont think its "longer hair effect."
bushbush
Established Member
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I'm afraid it is.
Precisely.
Again, to talk in hypotheticals: If a topical was to re-grow hair to a norwood 1 state, it does not matter if it needs to be re-applied more often than the responsible protein or receptor replenishes. If symptoms are gone, that qualifies as a functional cure, repeatable or not.
Patients can be cured of cancer but still carry the genes that put them at risk in the first place. The expressed products of a gene can matter more than the gene itself.
Do you consider insulin a cure then?
Hi,
I'm following this forum since a long time. I'm doing DT and wanted to post my ideas, after the reading of S. Foote interesting thesis.
We still don't know what that is, under our skin, that makes our scalps unpinchable and unkneatable.
In my opinion (this is how it feels like, when I try to pinch my skin) there are at least two reasons.
- swelling: I have a very swollen scalp at the ridge at the middle front of my scalp. It is hard to pinch it. 10 min after starting the DT session its getting easier and easier. But the next day it is swollen again (although the whole condition of my scalp is much better than a year ago when I started with DT and is much less swollen) I'm tending to the opinion, that this is Lymphedema. You can do a test: Press hard with one finger the scalp at your forehead (where your hair starts). After 20 sek you release, and you can feel a small crater that is filling with the fluid slowly again. I think the impossibility of lifting the skin at the front ridge of our heads is something simillar to the "Stemmer's Sign"-test
- hard tissue: At the middle back of my head (vertex and the area between forehead and vertex) my Scalp is now less thick than at the beginning of DT a year ago. And I feel, that underneath the thin layers of skin, there is some hard tissue, that I'm able to break through a massage. Once it is broken, I can pinch my scalp easily. And the stiffness of my scalp is not coming back the day after (as the swelling described above in the forehead). I think, that this could be fibrotic tissue (that is already documented in some studies). Some are arguing that this is calcification. But the imprtant thing is: You can break this up - And now I'm able to pinch & knead most of my scalp with the fingers of only one hand - only except 2 cm along the ridge in the middle top. But I'm working my way up and is incomparable to one year ago, when I wasn't able to pinch the scalp at the top at all.
So it seems to me, that there is more, than one reason, why our scalp feels so thick, swollen and inflammed. I'm describing the effects that I observe. I don't describe the reasons, which can be elevated DHT, inflammation etc. Please read this interesting thesis:
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/89751-A-Review-of-male pattern baldness-Research
In my understanding male pattern baldness is a desease that speedups itself. i.e. chronic inflammation > fibrosis > leads to more chronic inflammation.
The described observation fits exactly in this pattern. chronic inflammation leads to more lymph fluids in the scalp, but if they are trapped there (through fibrosis and stiff tissue) they build up a pressure that lead to inflammation and to the forming of scar tissue again. (This is the reason why you make lymph massage BEFORE operations to reduce the lymph fluid pressure which could lead to scarring)
So it seems to me, that chronic inflammation / fibrosis / increased lymph fluid pressure in scalp is a vicious cycle that speeds up itself!
I think, that massage could be a way to break through this feedback cycle.
Since I started DT a year ago, my scalp is less swollen (although I still have the described problem above), my scalp doesn't itch anymore, I have less ekzema and less inflammation. But we still have a Problem:
If we massage hard and destroy the fobrotic tissue we lead to small acute inflammation and to the creation of new tissue. This is good. But of course this also leads to an increase of lymph fluids to wash this waste away. But if this happens in an already swollen tissue we also increase the lymph pressure which is counterproductive, as described above and in the thesis of S Foote, that I linked.
So the question is. Is there a better way to massage?
In a perfect world I would first try to massage the high pressure of the lymphomatic fluids away, before I massage the fibrotic tissue which then leads to more lymph fluids again. Of course this is impossible, as we can't do the one without the other.
But it is not by accident, that most of us start DT by pinching the sides and are working their way up during DT.
This is, what I'm doing since one week. And it helps me. I'm massagin my lymph nodes first. All of them in the face with lightly circle movements.
http://www.nashvillemassagebodyworkreiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/lymphatic.png
After that, I try tp "push" down the fluids underneath the skin down my forehead and at the sides. I'm pressing really hard. After doing this a few times the ridge at my forehead is less swollen. You can do the test with the finger-press that I described above. The crater isn't as deep after you "pushed" the lymph fluids away from the swollen area.
Now I wait a bit and start with DT. And here the "miracle" comes. Suddenly it is very easy to pinch the part of my ridge at my forehead! Well - it is no miracle. It just makes perfect sense, that it is easier to pinch skin, that is not full of lymph fluids.
Perhaps this method can help to make faster steps in having a healthy, fully pinchable, kneatable scalp without inflammation! But don't excpect hair to grow immediately. First we need a healthy scalp. Then - some years later, perhaps - hair could come back...
I'm following this forum since a long time. I'm doing DT and wanted to post my ideas, after the reading of S. Foote interesting thesis.
We still don't know what that is, under our skin, that makes our scalps unpinchable and unkneatable.
In my opinion (this is how it feels like, when I try to pinch my skin) there are at least two reasons.
- swelling: I have a very swollen scalp at the ridge at the middle front of my scalp. It is hard to pinch it. 10 min after starting the DT session its getting easier and easier. But the next day it is swollen again (although the whole condition of my scalp is much better than a year ago when I started with DT and is much less swollen) I'm tending to the opinion, that this is Lymphedema. You can do a test: Press hard with one finger the scalp at your forehead (where your hair starts). After 20 sek you release, and you can feel a small crater that is filling with the fluid slowly again. I think the impossibility of lifting the skin at the front ridge of our heads is something simillar to the "Stemmer's Sign"-test
- hard tissue: At the middle back of my head (vertex and the area between forehead and vertex) my Scalp is now less thick than at the beginning of DT a year ago. And I feel, that underneath the thin layers of skin, there is some hard tissue, that I'm able to break through a massage. Once it is broken, I can pinch my scalp easily. And the stiffness of my scalp is not coming back the day after (as the swelling described above in the forehead). I think, that this could be fibrotic tissue (that is already documented in some studies). Some are arguing that this is calcification. But the imprtant thing is: You can break this up - And now I'm able to pinch & knead most of my scalp with the fingers of only one hand - only except 2 cm along the ridge in the middle top. But I'm working my way up and is incomparable to one year ago, when I wasn't able to pinch the scalp at the top at all.
So it seems to me, that there is more, than one reason, why our scalp feels so thick, swollen and inflammed. I'm describing the effects that I observe. I don't describe the reasons, which can be elevated DHT, inflammation etc. Please read this interesting thesis:
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/89751-A-Review-of-male pattern baldness-Research
In my understanding male pattern baldness is a desease that speedups itself. i.e. chronic inflammation > fibrosis > leads to more chronic inflammation.
The described observation fits exactly in this pattern. chronic inflammation leads to more lymph fluids in the scalp, but if they are trapped there (through fibrosis and stiff tissue) they build up a pressure that lead to inflammation and to the forming of scar tissue again. (This is the reason why you make lymph massage BEFORE operations to reduce the lymph fluid pressure which could lead to scarring)
So it seems to me, that chronic inflammation / fibrosis / increased lymph fluid pressure in scalp is a vicious cycle that speeds up itself!
I think, that massage could be a way to break through this feedback cycle.
Since I started DT a year ago, my scalp is less swollen (although I still have the described problem above), my scalp doesn't itch anymore, I have less ekzema and less inflammation. But we still have a Problem:
If we massage hard and destroy the fobrotic tissue we lead to small acute inflammation and to the creation of new tissue. This is good. But of course this also leads to an increase of lymph fluids to wash this waste away. But if this happens in an already swollen tissue we also increase the lymph pressure which is counterproductive, as described above and in the thesis of S Foote, that I linked.
So the question is. Is there a better way to massage?
In a perfect world I would first try to massage the high pressure of the lymphomatic fluids away, before I massage the fibrotic tissue which then leads to more lymph fluids again. Of course this is impossible, as we can't do the one without the other.
But it is not by accident, that most of us start DT by pinching the sides and are working their way up during DT.
This is, what I'm doing since one week. And it helps me. I'm massagin my lymph nodes first. All of them in the face with lightly circle movements.
http://www.nashvillemassagebodyworkreiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/lymphatic.png
After that, I try tp "push" down the fluids underneath the skin down my forehead and at the sides. I'm pressing really hard. After doing this a few times the ridge at my forehead is less swollen. You can do the test with the finger-press that I described above. The crater isn't as deep after you "pushed" the lymph fluids away from the swollen area.
Now I wait a bit and start with DT. And here the "miracle" comes. Suddenly it is very easy to pinch the part of my ridge at my forehead! Well - it is no miracle. It just makes perfect sense, that it is easier to pinch skin, that is not full of lymph fluids.
Perhaps this method can help to make faster steps in having a healthy, fully pinchable, kneatable scalp without inflammation! But don't excpect hair to grow immediately. First we need a healthy scalp. Then - some years later, perhaps - hair could come back...
haircatcher
New Member
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- 0
Hi,
Last edited:
Here's my story with DT therapy.
I started back in September of 2014. My hairline was decent, but my scalp always itched and was hard as rock. I knew something was wrong with my scalp, so started massaging everyday. However, one thing I noticed was, every time I massage my scalp, loads of hair would fall out during/after the session. I started losing a lot... I mean a lot of hair everywhere. Frontal, temporal, back, and side, pretty much everywhere!
Fast forward it to today, 4 months of treatment, my hairline is in the worst state it's ever been. My side and back have thinned a lot. On a good note, my scalp does not itch anymore. Until 3rd month, my scalp flaked a lot, but that is gone as well now. Shedding has not stopped and I am still losing ground everyday. Maybe increased blood flow to scalp is pushing away the miniaturized hairs like it happens with other effective hair loss treatments like finasteride and minoxidil. I feel devastated now, but I will continue with the session. If anybody has any insight on what I experienced, please share and give me some recommendation as what I need to do to stop/minimize shedding. I am doing ~20 minute session every morning and night at the moment.
I started back in September of 2014. My hairline was decent, but my scalp always itched and was hard as rock. I knew something was wrong with my scalp, so started massaging everyday. However, one thing I noticed was, every time I massage my scalp, loads of hair would fall out during/after the session. I started losing a lot... I mean a lot of hair everywhere. Frontal, temporal, back, and side, pretty much everywhere!
Fast forward it to today, 4 months of treatment, my hairline is in the worst state it's ever been. My side and back have thinned a lot. On a good note, my scalp does not itch anymore. Until 3rd month, my scalp flaked a lot, but that is gone as well now. Shedding has not stopped and I am still losing ground everyday. Maybe increased blood flow to scalp is pushing away the miniaturized hairs like it happens with other effective hair loss treatments like finasteride and minoxidil. I feel devastated now, but I will continue with the session. If anybody has any insight on what I experienced, please share and give me some recommendation as what I need to do to stop/minimize shedding. I am doing ~20 minute session every morning and night at the moment.