Copper Peptides Vs Minoxidil

[ShedMaster]

That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard....
Of course it's minoxidil....it's like I will tell you that propecia doesn't maintain the situation and that you could have been at the same hair condition without your treatments...that it is sometimes "stops" and "continues". It sounds like minoxidil didn't help you guys so you made some theory about it. Minoxidil and Finasteride are the two biggest meds we have tonday. Too bad they're not enough, but obviously they work for some people and in my case I owe minoxidil "my life" hehehe...

Eliazush, I don't think you quite understand what he is attempting to tell you. You need to understand the fundamental process of what each drug accomplishes. He is not telling you that minoxidil doesn't work.

 

[eliazush]

Read again what he had written....

 

[Bryan]

Eliazush, I don't think you quite understand what he is attempting to tell you. You need to understand the fundamental process of what each drug accomplishes. He is not telling you that minoxidil doesn't work.

It sounds like YOU understood what I said, but Eliazush didn't. Even after I've been discussing these same issues for literally years on this and other forums! :wink:

Bryan

 

[michael barry]

Eliazush,

I tested Crinagen on my left wrist and Revivogen on my right wrist many months ago for about 2 and a half months. Revivogen, as an anti-androgen should, decreased my right wrist hair a good bit. Crinagen didn't do squat except make my left wrist reddish (inflammaed). If your going to use an anti-androgen topical at night................Id go with revivogen, I honestly think its much better man.


On minoxidil vs. Peptides...................copper sends a signal to the skin to remodel itself, its a good anti-inflammatory, it helps drain the lymphatic nodes in the skin of metabolic wastes, upregulates VEGF and promotes new capillary formation, and has superoxide dismutase acitivity which make it a quite powerful antioxidant.

minoxidil ups VEGF and promotes bigger capillaries also. It opens potassium channels which are probably used for singnalling within hair cells themselves. The propylene glycol in minoxidil might make the skin of your scalp peel a little and redden after extended use. Dr. Pickart think they work much better together than either alone.

However, as inflammation around the follicle seems to be quite important in the male pattern baldness process, using peptides might more directly counter the bad things happening in your scalp and hair more directly. Thus many posters who are knowledgeable (like Bryan and many others) believe long term they may be much more beneficial as 3,4,5,10 years pass by.

A regimine of finasteride, revivogen at night, and tricomin after the morning shower is probably a pretty darn good one by the way. If you added minoxidil after you get home from work in the afternoon ..............................................I think you could be satisfied that youre definitely giving it the ol' college try. If you continue to bald quickly doing all this, it might be time to whip out the clippers.

 

[Felk]

Hmm... i love the idea of peptides - good for your hair, and no side effects. I just wish mine could be applied to my entire scalp... i use proxiphen, and thats far too expensive to use anywhere apart from the main thinning areas.

I love sampling things, I'll probably get some tricomin and folligen just to see what they're like. It's terrible - does anyone else just get curious and buy small amounts of different things to try them out? I've going to import some RU45881 from China, and possibly use it instead of finasteride, or just with it. Ive got a bottle of Lee's minoxidil coming, and I don't think I'm going to even use minoxidil at this point in time!

Oh well, there's no hope for me... :hairy:

 

[Goingat20]

haha felk, im the same i always get the urge to try a product out, recently ive added a whole heep of products to my regime. How much will the RU cost you? Im thinking of it myself... Cheers man

 

[mvpsoft]

You can get the benefits of Proxiphen while minimizing the cost. I use the liquid (you have to specifically request it) and use it at night. It dries fast and doesn't have a bad smell, so it doesn't mess up my pillow and my wife doesn't mind it. I'd hate to see what she would say if I tried that with Revivogen, which is the messiest stuff this side of maple syrup.

In the morning I use Folligen, spironolactone and regular minoxidil, leaving about ten minutes between the applications of spironolactone and minoxidil. And I take finasteride every day. I buy generic 5 mg finasteride and cut the pills in quarters, Folligen is much cheaper than Tricomin, Proxiphen lasts two months for me because you get twice as much liquid as you do cream, any generic minoxidil will do fine, and spironolactone is fairly cheap. I also use Nizoral shampoo 3x weekly and Nano shampoo 2-3x weekly. But a bottle of each lasts 6-12 months. So I've got about as full a regimen as is possible to maintain, yet it is affordable.

Has it worked? Well, my hair loss has pretty much stopped for two years now, and I've gotten some regrowth. My brother is five years younger than me, and he has lost much more hair than I have. A few months ago one of my nephews asked me how I maintain "a full head of hair" when his uncle (my brother) and his dad (my brother-in-law) have lost most of their hair.

 

[rockinreel]

folligen

I know for a fact that you can't stop either propecia or minoxidil. I tried stopping each at different times and my hair started falling out, so both are very important. My issue is I haven't gotten back to that full head of hair that I once had with those two treatments. If I had stuck with it from the early stages 6 years ago, I'd be happy.

You can only barely tell I'm thinning, unless my hair is wet or I spike my hair. I've seens added folligen and notice my hair really thickened, in already thick areas and around the hairline. My bangs are really thick b/c of adding folligen, noting propecia started it tall, I've just noticed folligen seemed to speed up the process.

So, in order to attack the thin spot in the back, I'm thinking of adding revivogen.

I think my hair is definitely thicker every where, and the middle to forefront top that isn't thinning is thicker than it was when I was 18. (I'm 39 now). Has anyone else experienced this? So, all the stuff works, but very slowly where you want it to work. I can't believe I'm going to add yet a fourth treatment.

thoughts?
rockn

 

[Felk]

You can get the benefits of Proxiphen while minimizing the cost. I use the liquid (you have to specifically request it) and use it at night. It dries fast and doesn't have a bad smell, so it doesn't mess up my pillow and my wife doesn't mind it. I'd hate to see what she would say if I tried that with Revivogen, which is the messiest stuff this side of maple syrup.

In the morning I use Folligen, spironolactone and regular minoxidil, leaving about ten minutes between the applications of spironolactone and minoxidil. And I take finasteride every day. I buy generic 5 mg finasteride and cut the pills in quarters, Folligen is much cheaper than Tricomin, Proxiphen lasts two months for me because you get twice as much liquid as you do cream, any generic minoxidil will do fine, and spironolactone is fairly cheap. I also use Nizoral shampoo 3x weekly and Nano shampoo 2-3x weekly. But a bottle of each lasts 6-12 months. So I've got about as full a regimen as is possible to maintain, yet it is affordable.

Has it worked? Well, my hair loss has pretty much stopped for two years now, and I've gotten some regrowth. My brother is five years younger than me, and he has lost much more hair than I have. A few months ago one of my nephews asked me how I maintain "a full head of hair" when his uncle (my brother) and his dad (my brother-in-law) have lost most of their hair.

Hey there. What about the proxiphen liquid version being so much weaker though at once a day? Apparently twice a day liquid is still weaker than once a day with the cream.

 

[mvpsoft]

If more of it reaches the scalp rather than sticking to the hair, then it's more effective, even though it's weaker.

 

[chromedomefear]

What is the most recommended copper peptide, and what is the proper way to use/apply it?

And when you guys are stating that you are also using folligen and revivogen (rockinreel, for example with adding folligen), is it the shampoo or some other product?

 

[rockinreel]

Chromedomefear,
Most copper peptide users use either folligen or tricomin. Folligen is much more potent and one bottle lasts much longer than a month. And Folligen is a third the price of tricomin. Folligen comes in three forms, liquid spray, lotion, cream.

BTW, I didn't just start Folligen. I've been using it for 9 months or more. I was already on propecia and minoxidil for a very long time. Folligen thickened my hair extensively where it wasn't really thinning, and provided a lot of growth in the front, but just some growth in the rear. Point being, it helped very noticably.

One thing you will learn on this site is that most people are on here b/c they need to add something to their regime or need info. Most people responding haven't used products long enough to know what works the best. I'm on this site again, b/c (i'm happy with my stop loss and regrowth), but i'd like to thicken my rear thin spot so I can spike my hair. I'll give it a shot with adding Revivogen, if it doesn't work, I stop using it, b/c I know the other three work well (finpecia, minoxidil, folligen).

rockinreel

 

[Felk]

Hey rockinreel, do you use folligen full strength or dilute it? Also, do you use it every day?

One thing that appeals to me about folligen (aside from it's obvious cheapness ) is Dr Pickart's recommendation to use it only every other day, you see.

 

[CCS]

is folligen cream much better than folligen liquid spray? I'm thinking about my hair line here. I'm thinking of using a 1/3 dilution for my whole male pattern baldness area, and a 1/2 or 75% dilution for my thin areas, and either 100% or the cream for my hairline.

is prox-N weak because it is not a ceam?

is prox-N the only source of multiple SOD's? Would grapeseed extract in minoxidil have an SOD effect?

I read Bryan's post that minoxidil just lengthens hair at a given point in time but does to stop the dying process. I heard that minoxidil is like NO, and that it protects blood vessels some, and that it has some of the anti-scaring properties that aminexil claims to have.

 

[mvpsoft]

I read Bryan's post that minoxidil just lengthens hair at a given point in time but does to stop the dying process.

Where did anyone say that? Minoxidil causes new hair to grow but does not address the balding process, i.e., the factors that cause balding to occur. It simply offsets that process with new hair growth. Finasteride addesses the balding process itself. spironolactone addresses the balding process itself. Copper peptides appear to address the balding process itself to some extent. Minoxidil doesn't.

 

[JWM]

rockinreel

Are you using Folligen spray or cream? Also, how long do you wait to apply Folligen after minoxidil?

 

[CCS]

I'm just paraphrasing what I thought he mean't, not quoting him exactly. he did state that minoxidil does not interfer with the funtamental cause of hair loss.

 

[jay2K6]

Some people say tricomin is better than folligen others say the opposite?!?!? Which one is better?

 

[ShedMaster]

Some people say tricomin is better than folligen others say the opposite?!?!? Which one is better?

folligen

 

[CCS]

tricomin was the first to be invented. it has 3 amino acids in it, which were supposed to be best for hair loss. It is the only copper peptide that was tested in FDA phaseII trials. However, the product on the market is diluted compared what was tested, making the concentration experimental. It costs alot more than folligen.

Folligen is made from soy protein instead of isolated amino acids, so it is much cheaper. Soy has more arginine than meat protein, giving it a good amino acid profile, but not the profile of tricomin. Folligen is very concentrated and can be diluted and used every other day to last months on a $25 bottle. People say tricomin feels better. But tricomin is so expensive you could buy prox-N and folligen for the price of tricomin.

If you make your own copper peptides, you might be able to use them liberally on your whole head for a low price. But since I have access to pH paper and NaOH and HCl and most people don't, it is much safer for me to do that since I can make the perfect pH. I think pH 7.5 is ideal for complex formation.