Bayer Prolactin Receptor Antibody For Male And Female Pattern Hair Loss

[pegasus2]

Right! That's why I keep droning on about looking for alternative ways to attack the PRL angle. It's very plausible that this thing will be far beyond most of our price ranges, in other words it may as well not exist, even if it is the cure.

SMI-6 may work at a high enough dose, but I am not comfortable taking it at such doses. One thing people can hope for is that they proceed with development on that for cancer, and prove safety in humans. Other than that the best bet is something downstream of prolactin. To be honest I don't think there is much chance at all for getting a cheap molecule that will mimic the results of HMI-115 anytime soon. It will take many years to even find out how blocking the prolactin receptor grows hair. What would seem to be the likely candidates may not be able to be targeted with anything other than expensive peptides/antibodies or gene therapy. I'm afraid your best bet is to get a second job and save up for HMI-115 or a hair transplant

 

[LoWS]

If this works, i think this might be the first time in history a mAB will be used for a cosmetic treatment. @pegasus2 can you please tell why mAB is so expensive to manufacturing and is there a way to reduce production cost?

 

[RolfLeeBuckler]

Why they don’t start Phase II in US? They got the FDA permission und February!

 

[pegasus2]

If this works, i think this might be the first time in history a mAB will be used for a cosmetic treatment. @pegasus2 can you please tell why mAB is so expensive to manufacturing and is there a way to reduce production cost?

It takes a lot more time than synthesizing small molecules. Most of the cost is in the initial set up and profit margins. Most mAbs are more advanced and difficult to develop, they are more targeted, and generally have no effective competition, so they have substantial profit margins. They certainly have a lot of room for pricing flexibility, but they need to recoup the cost of their investment in developing the drug. That is more expensive than the production when scaled up. Don't expect them to sell it for less than what they can get away with. If they sold it for $2,000 they would probably need 10 million customers to make the same profit they would make selling it at $50,000 with just 100,000 customers, and when insurance is paying for the endo treatment there is absolutely no incentive to reduce the price.

 

[trialAcc]

Yeah, we should spread the word on Tressles and whatever other forums.

Well, the fact that there is a mass market for it doesn't mean they'll sell at a mass market price. Perhaps it can't even be produced at a mass market cost. If the price for existing antibody treatments is 100k, like trialAcc says, it could be comparable and if the price is 100k, for a lot of people, myself included, it may as well be 100 billion, that's completely out of my price range. I could sell everything I own and still be short.

So I disagree with the idea that we shouldn't worry about the price until we have the results, because what good are spectacular results if you can't ever have them. We can be sitting here with baited breath until next summer and then find out all the subjects regrew hair and then you gotta come up with 100k - so what good did it do us at that point that we know HMI is the cure? If this thing is gonna work for us, we either need to know it will be affordable or find some other drug to target the PRL angle with, because, again, if this thing is a cure, but costs 100k, for me, that's no different than there being no cure, because my finances simply cannot stretch that far, not even close, and I'm sure the same is true for a lot of people.

It's not going to cost 100k, that would be insane. Think 20-40k is a reasonable estimate though.

 

[pegasus2]

It's not going to cost 100k, that would be insane. Think 20-40k is a reasonable estimate though.

I think he means 100k a year. 40k is 80k a year, so the two numbers aren't that far off. If it's going to be marketed as a 12 month treatment then that will be different, I think the price will have to be lower then.

 

[HMI 115 IS THE CURE dude]

By the way, I actually paid closer attention to this picture for the first time, we've been saying the monkeys retained their gains after treatment was discontinued, but these monkeys actually GAINED hair after treatment was discontinued. The monkey below (which is a female, right?) actually gains hair between 2 yrs without treatment and 4 years without treatment!!! How the f do you explain that???

We've been saying maybe the gains are retained because the Androgenetic Alopecia cascade takes a long time once it starts, but you actually are regrowing hair while the cascade is slowly happening? I suppose it's possible.

Even the monkey above seems to have gained thickness in some areas between yr 2 and 4 without, although he lost ground in other areas.

from the trichogram i think the pictures at 2 year without treatment show the best density . The 28 week picture is odd in that the trichogram looks incredible but the monkeys scalp still seems bald. I wonder if they used a consistent region of the scalp for that measurement

 

[JohnDoe5]

I do not have a lot of faith in Bayer's Prolactin Receptor Antibody tech to treat hair loss. I don't understand what all of the hype is all about. It's easier to regrow hair in Maquaques than in humans.

 

[FilthyFrancis]

It's easier to regrow hair in Maquaques than in humans.

Source?

 

[pegasus2]

It's easier to regrow hair in Maquaques than in humans.

It's actually not. We've been over this in the thread.

 

[trialAcc]

I think he means 100k a year. 40k is 80k a year, so the two numbers aren't that far off. If it's going to be marketed as a 12 month treatment then that will be different, I think the price will have to be lower then.

It is going to be a 12 month treatment based on the macaques. They were not fully cured and the researchers made the comment that they did not begin to see a plateau in results at the 6 month mark.

 

[corkmeister]

I do not have a lot of faith in Bayer's Prolactin Receptor Antibody tech to treat hair loss. I don't understand what all of the hype is all about. It's easier to regrow hair in Maquaques than in humans.

Solid argument bro

 

[RolfLeeBuckler]

WHY THEY DID NOT START PHASE II TRIAL IN US AFTER GETTING FDA PERMISSION???

Hope Medicine Announces US FDA Clearance for Phase II Clinical Trial of A First-in-class Monoclonal Antibody, HMI-115, in Androgen Alopecia

/PRNewswire/ -- Hope Medicine Inc. ('HopeMed'), a clinical stage innovative biopharmaceutical company, has recently announced that U.S. Food and Drug...

www.prnewswire.com

 

[trialAcc]

I do not have a lot of faith in Bayer's Prolactin Receptor Antibody tech to treat hair loss. I don't understand what all of the hype is all about. It's easier to regrow hair in Maquaques than in humans.

Although it is apparently more difficult to spell the word macaques then humans.

The macaque model seems to be basically interchangeable with humans for androgen related hairloss. If you could provide a single example of a drug that was successfully tested on them vs failed humans I'd love to see it.

 

[pegasus2]

It is going to be a 12 month treatment based on the macaques. They were not fully cured and the researchers made the comment that they did not begin to see a plateau in results at the 6 month mark.

Possibly. I think they will market it as a 6 month treatment, and if you want more results then double up. Many people will be happy with the 6 month results, and those who can afford it go for a year

 

[HMI 115 IS THE CURE dude]

Possibly. I think they will market it as a 6 month treatment, and if you want more results then double up. Many people will be happy with the 6 month results, and those who can afford it go for a year

can you look more into this molecule called LFA 102? i think it has really good group buy potential. It passed phase 1 studies for prostate cancer and its also a monoclonal antibody

"FA102, a humanized monoclonal antibody (mAb) that binds to and inhibits the PRLR, has exhibited promising preclinical antitumor activity."

here is the phase 1 study :

Phase I Study of the Prolactin Receptor Antagonist LFA102 in Metastatic Breast and Castration-Resistant Prostate Cancer - PubMed

Treatment with LFA102 was safe and well tolerated, but did not show antitumor activity as monotherapy at the doses tested.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

also this study confirms that PRL antibody is safe to use the side effects seemed tolerable .

 

[Solid_Snake]

I would definitely take out 100k to cure baldness. Sign me the f*** up.

Prolly not getting another house no time soon anyway.

 

[Dimitri001]

can you look more into this molecule called LFA 102? i think it has really good group buy potential. It passed phase 1 studies for prostate cancer and its also a monoclonal antibody

"FA102, a humanized monoclonal antibody (mAb) that binds to and inhibits the PRLR, has exhibited promising preclinical antitumor activity."

here is the phase 1 study :

Phase I Study of the Prolactin Receptor Antagonist LFA102 in Metastatic Breast and Castration-Resistant Prostate Cancer - PubMed

Treatment with LFA102 was safe and well tolerated, but did not show antitumor activity as monotherapy at the doses tested.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

also this study confirms that PRL antibody is safe to use the side effects seemed tolerable .

Very interesting! So if there's a competing antibody maybe competition could bring the price down?

It's also interesting that both DHT and PRL are involved in both Androgenetic Alopecia and prostate cancer.

I do not have a lot of faith in Bayer's Prolactin Receptor Antibody tech to treat hair loss. I don't understand what all of the hype is all about. It's easier to regrow hair in Maquaques than in humans.

Come on, guys, obvious troll. Let's, for once, not take the bait.

 

[Dimitri001]

SMI-6 may work at a high enough dose, but I am not comfortable taking it at such doses. One thing people can hope for is that they proceed with development on that for cancer, and prove safety in humans. Other than that the best bet is something downstream of prolactin. To be honest I don't think there is much chance at all for getting a cheap molecule that will mimic the results of HMI-115 anytime soon. It will take many years to even find out how blocking the prolactin receptor grows hair. What would seem to be the likely candidates may not be able to be targeted with anything other than expensive peptides/antibodies or gene therapy. I'm afraid your best bet is to get a second job and save up for HMI-115 or a hair transplant

Why are you not comfortable with SMI-6 at high doses, given that an antibody is, presumably, safe? Because of impurity?

Yes, perhaps something downstream would be cheaper, in fact, didn't we mention something like that in the thread a while ago, whatever became of that?

Although, as you say, we don't know what it is downstream that causes the regrowth, but perhaps we can speculate or, hell, just try at random if there aren't too many downstream effects. I mean, may as well if we're gonna be priced out of HMI.

But, you say "what would seem to be the likely candidates", so you know already what the downstream effects are and which might be the ones doing the work?

 

[JohnDoe5]

Although it is apparently more difficult to spell the word macaques then humans.

The macaque model seems to be basically interchangeable with humans for androgen related hairloss. If you could provide a single example of a drug that was successfully tested on them vs failed humans I'd love to see it.

So you're the house grammar police. Thank goodness you're here to correct us every time one of us makes a typo.

That aside, hair growth in macaques and humans is not interchangeable. I live in Portland, Oregon and I used to have convos with a researcher named Hideo Uno, who ran the local Primate facility in nearby Beaverton. We used to talk on the phone quite a bit. You might want to google Hideo Uno to learn who he is. It was from him that I got the info that it's easier to regrow hair on macaques than on humans. I respect his opinion on this issue more than a respect some grammar-cop know-nothing on the internet.

In fact, it's easier to regrow hair on a macaque than a human.