3 month hair growth results without using minoxidil or propecia(GREAT RESULTS)

Micky_007

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Finasteride reduces DHT in the body systemically. Blocking DHT systemically causes loads of problems. Which is why people will opt to chose Breezula or Pyrilutamide Because it doesn't go systemic so no side effects.


Using Finasteride is like a woman blocking most of her estrogen and increasing test a bit too. Obviously blocking the gender specific sex hormone is going to have some sort of ramifications. To what degree is going to be individual though, and it doesn't surprise me that some men report suffering genital shrinkage after blocking more than 70% of their DHT for a long time (and also increasing E).

I definitely do think money will be an issue for some people (not everyone ofcourse), you must remember than America has one of the strongest currencies in the world. Majority of the world has a far weaker currency, so even $100 is too much for some people. Many people out of America and even some in America won't afford $100pm for their hair.

Especially with Covid and recessions and financial distress many people now more than ever don't have the luxury of spending that much money on their hair.

But even Pre-Covid many people, especially those not in America (or similar strength currency countries) would not be able to have $100 left over after expenses for their hair.
 

Haironnu

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More than 13k lawsuit for Prilosec and it's still the most used proton-pump inhibitor.
Keep crying over propecia, people will keep using it, cause nobody gives a crap about what you say
what were the lawsuits against prilosec for? I more or less have to start using that drug too, I suffer from reflux and got minor ulcer
 

arnob

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Finasteride reduces DHT in the body systemically. Blocking DHT systemically causes loads of problems. Which is why people will opt to chose Breezula or Pyrilutamide Because it doesn't go systemic so no side effects.


Using Finasteride is like a woman blocking most of her estrogen and increasing test a bit too. Obviously blocking the gender specific sex hormone is going to have some sort of ramifications. To what degree is going to be individual though, and it doesn't surprise me that some men report suffering genital shrinkage after blocking more than 70% of their DHT for a long time (and also increasing E).

I definitely do think money will be an issue for some people (not everyone ofcourse), you must remember than America has one of the strongest currencies in the world. Majority of the world has a far weaker currency, so even $100 is too much for some people. Many people out of America and even some in America won't afford $100pm for their hair.

Especially with Covid and recessions and financial distress many people now more than ever don't have the luxury of spending that much money on their hair.

But even Pre-Covid many people, especially those not in America (or similar strength currency countries) would not be able to have $100 left over after expenses for their hair.
is finasteride tht bad really I have been using for 5 days so far and havent felt any different but it does scare me stories like this
 

TDE97

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is finasteride tht bad really I have been using for 5 days so far and havent felt any different but it does scare me stories like this

Everyone reacts differently. Some can go 10 years with no issue, while others experience side effects within a week or two.

Just keep in check if sides still persist.
 

Micky_007

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is finasteride tht bad really I have been using for 5 days so far and havent felt any different but it does scare me stories like this

The side effects of Finasteride are real and affect a large amount of people, not everyone, but a far larger amount than what Finasteride or the FDA have falsely advertised, evidently. For some people, as more and more people are speaking out now, the side effects, more often than are advertised, are permanent for lots of people.

As TDE97 mentioned, you could continue treatment and just look out for sides then stop soon as you notice any. But for some people, even when they stop at the 1st instance of side effects, it's sometimes too late to reverse the sides.

I'll post several studies as proof if you need me to.
 
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arnob

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The side effects of Finasteride are real and affect a large amount of people, not everyone, but a far larger amount than what Finasteride or the FDA have falsely advertised, evidently. For some people, as more and more people are speaking out now, the side effects also more often than advertised permanent for some people.

As TDE97 mentioned, you could continue treatment and just look out for sides then stop soon as you notice any. But for some people, even when they stop at the 1st instance of side effects, it's sometimes too late to reverse the sides.

I'll post a several studies as proof.
Thanks brother I know it wasnt your attention but im now im absolutely petrified of it lol, I just dont know what to do for my hair (pics in my thread) lots recommended finasteride thats why I went with it my thinning down of hair is slow and I thought finasteride was the answer but its becoming more apparent it aint
 

arnob

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Everyone reacts differently. Some can go 10 years with no issue, while others experience side effects within a week or two.

Just keep in check if sides still persist.
Thanks man I started with 1mg and goign to work my way down if i notice anything the only thing I noticed so far is the right side of my ribs hurts a bit but cant be down to finasteride surely
 

Micky_007

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Thanks brother I know it wasnt your attention but im now im absolutely petrified of it lol, I just dont know what to do for my hair (pics in my thread) lots recommended finasteride thats why I went with it my thinning down of hair is slow and I thought finasteride was the answer but its becoming more apparent it aint

I completely understand your situation bro. Sometimes we get too emotionally vulnerable due to our hairloss/thinning that we just want to jump onto what's advertised as the best but as you know, often the media is corrupt. I've decided to use safer alternative options like Ketoconazole 2% Shampoo every alternate day instead.

It supposedly blocks DHT locally on he scalp without the side effects of Finasteride. So I'm definitely going to be trialing that until better treatments like Breezula or Kintors Drug Pyrilutamide become available that are the no side effect version of Finasteride.

If the Ketoconazole can just buy me time without any further thinning/hairloss I'd be happy. I'm not expecting any miracles with Ketoconazole like major regrowth, even if it's just 10% thickening of existing hairs as well that's good enough for now.

TH16 is something I'm really looking forward to using, it's a natural topical which apparently performed better than 5% Minoxidil. It should be released in Q1 of 2021.
 

KHURMA

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Guys, does anyone trying the Ketoconazole 2% cream and Bi Estro Estriol+Estradiol cream here?
 

TDE97

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Guys, does anyone trying the Ketoconazole 2% cream and Bi Estro Estriol+Estradiol cream here?

Plan to soon. Im only using keto cream 2% atm. Its very hard to get bi estro.

You can ask Norwoody and deathdiss for opinion on biestro
 

Norwoody

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Been on bi-estro about a month, first couple weeks I was doing once a day, tolerated it fine, past 2 weeks I've been doing twice a week and still no sides to report. I notice a slight improvement in the vellus hairs so far, but slight increase in shedding. So we'll see what happens in about 2 more months on it.
 

TDE97

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Been on bi-estro about a month, first couple weeks I was doing once a day, tolerated it fine, past 2 weeks I've been doing twice a week and still no sides to report. I notice a slight improvement in the vellus hairs so far, but slight increase in shedding. So we'll see what happens in about 2 more months on it.

Do you plan to make your own thread?
 

Nebula74

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Thanks brother I know it wasnt your attention but im now im absolutely petrified of it lol, I just dont know what to do for my hair (pics in my thread) lots recommended finasteride thats why I went with it my thinning down of hair is slow and I thought finasteride was the answer but its becoming more apparent it aint
Lol Finasteride is by far the best answer that we have available for hair loss at the moment.

Of course, be cautious on it, but remember that forums like these have a huge selection bias, where people who successfully use Finasteride eventually go on with their lives, and people who get sides or dislike the drug are more likely to use forums, as they're looking for other ways to stop hair loss.

Of course blocking 70% of your DHT isn't desirable,but realistically, it is unlikely to have much of an effect on a fully developed male, it's potency is most useful during puberty and foetal development. After this, adequate testosterone levels can cover for the drop in DHT that occurs upon the usage of Finasteride. This is proven by the fact that dutasteride, which nukes DHT levels by 95% is FDA approved. If DHT was that important, over 1 million people wouldn't be using dutasteride worldwide.

I'm inclined to believe that most of the sexual sides that occur with usage of Finasteride are due to the increase in estrogen levels that occur, but that's a 10-15% increase at most, so in some people, it can push estrogen levels over the edge.

But at the end of the day, time is of the essence in the fight against hair loss, and Finasteride works the best to maintain what you have. If your hair loss is agresssive, you don't have the time to wait for other maintenance drugs like Breezula, because they will not help with regrowth either, just keeping what you have.

Of course it sucks that Finasteride works in such a shotgun way, but the important thing is that it works.

In the clinical trials (which are the best way to analyse the efficacy of a drug, not through reading forums like some people believe.) Finasteride stopped hair loss in 80% of men. No other treatments available right now have been proven to do such a thing.

Of course if you're concerned about side, then you can quit using it, but the reality of the situation is, despite how forums make it look, it's very improbable you will develop noticeable sides.

If Finasteride was such poison, and if there was some better treatment available do you really think that celebs like Donald trump, Wayne Rooney and Ashton kutcher would risk using it. Of course not lol.

Anyway, good luck in the fight against hair loss, wish you the best.

Just don't get turned off from one of the only two treatments that have been proven to work because of what people said on an internet forum. That would be a shame. You should judge by your own experience with the drug and the clinical data. Of course anecdotal reports are somewhat useful, but next to the two things I just mentioned, they should be taken with a grain of salt
 

arnob

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Lol Finasteride is by far the best answer that we have available for hair loss at the moment.

Of course, be cautious on it, but remember that forums like these have a huge selection bias, where people who successfully use Finasteride eventually go on with their lives, and people who get sides or dislike the drug are more likely to use forums, as they're looking for other ways to stop hair loss.

Of course blocking 70% of your DHT isn't desirable,but realistically, it is unlikely to have much of an effect on a fully developed male, it's potency is most useful during puberty and foetal development. After this, adequate testosterone levels can cover for the drop in DHT that occurs upon the usage of Finasteride. This is proven by the fact that dutasteride, which nukes DHT levels by 95% is FDA approved. If DHT was that important, over 1 million people wouldn't be using dutasteride worldwide.

I'm inclined to believe that most of the sexual sides that occur with usage of Finasteride are due to the increase in estrogen levels that occur, but that's a 10-15% increase at most, so in some people, it can push estrogen levels over the edge.

But at the end of the day, time is of the essence in the fight against hair loss, and Finasteride works the best to maintain what you have. If your hair loss is agresssive, you don't have the time to wait for other maintenance drugs like Breezula, because they will not help with regrowth either, just keeping what you have.

Of course it sucks that Finasteride works in such a shotgun way, but the important thing is that it works.

In the clinical trials (which are the best way to analyse the efficacy of a drug, not through reading forums like some people believe.) Finasteride stopped hair loss in 80% of men. No other treatments available right now have been proven to do such a thing.

Of course if you're concerned about side, then you can quit using it, but the reality of the situation is, despite how forums make it look, it's very improbable you will develop noticeable sides.

If Finasteride was such poison, and if there was some better treatment available do you really think that celebs like Donald trump, Wayne Rooney and Ashton kutcher would risk using it. Of course not lol.

Anyway, good luck in the fight against hair loss, wish you the best.

Just don't get turned off from one of the only two treatments that have been proven to work because of what people said on an internet forum. That would be a shame. You should judge by your own experience with the drug and the clinical data. Of course anecdotal reports are somewhat useful, but next to the two things I just mentioned, they should be taken with a grain of salt
Thanks brother that is true the internet does highlight the worst quite a lot
 

Micky_007

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Lol Finasteride is by far the best answer that we have available for hair loss at the moment.

Of course, be cautious on it, but remember that forums like these have a huge selection bias, where people who successfully use Finasteride eventually go on with their lives, and people who get sides or dislike the drug are more likely to use forums, as they're looking for other ways to stop hair loss.

Of course blocking 70% of your DHT isn't desirable,but realistically, it is unlikely to have much of an effect on a fully developed male, it's potency is most useful during puberty and foetal development. After this, adequate testosterone levels can cover for the drop in DHT that occurs upon the usage of Finasteride. This is proven by the fact that dutasteride, which nukes DHT levels by 95% is FDA approved. If DHT was that important, over 1 million people wouldn't be using dutasteride worldwide.

I'm inclined to believe that most of the sexual sides that occur with usage of Finasteride are due to the increase in estrogen levels that occur, but that's a 10-15% increase at most, so in some people, it can push estrogen levels over the edge.

But at the end of the day, time is of the essence in the fight against hair loss, and Finasteride works the best to maintain what you have. If your hair loss is agresssive, you don't have the time to wait for other maintenance drugs like Breezula, because they will not help with regrowth either, just keeping what you have.

Of course it sucks that Finasteride works in such a shotgun way, but the important thing is that it works.

In the clinical trials (which are the best way to analyse the efficacy of a drug, not through reading forums like some people believe.) Finasteride stopped hair loss in 80% of men. No other treatments available right now have been proven to do such a thing.

Of course if you're concerned about side, then you can quit using it, but the reality of the situation is, despite how forums make it look, it's very improbable you will develop noticeable sides.

If Finasteride was such poison, and if there was some better treatment available do you really think that celebs like Donald trump, Wayne Rooney and Ashton kutcher would risk using it. Of course not lol.

Anyway, good luck in the fight against hair loss, wish you the best.

Just don't get turned off from one of the only two treatments that have been proven to work because of what people said on an internet forum. That would be a shame. You should judge by your own experience with the drug and the clinical data. Of course anecdotal reports are somewhat useful, but next to the two things I just mentioned, they should be taken with a grain of salt

Finasteride definitely doesn't work for 80% of men and it has been proven in several real studies not just anecdotal reports that Finasteride has far worse side effects than previously advertised.

If your basis for effectiveness is based on the percentage of DHT blocked, with 70% DHT blocked by Finasteride and 95% DHT blocked by Dutasteride, then everyone should just hop onto Dustasteride and it should eliminate hairloss. Which isn't the case for a reason. People had 30 years to do this and if Dustadteride or Finasteride even provided remotely near 80% hairloss stoppage for 70% DHT blockage by Finasteride or significantly higher hairloss stoppage for 95% DHT blockage by Dustasteride, you wouldn't have almost every county working on better hair loss solutions and people from every country claiming the current treatments are ineffective. The numbers don't add up.

Also, did you seriously just use Donald Trump, Wayne Rooney and Ashton Kutcher as examples? LOL.

Literally every person on the planet picks on Donald Trumps "hair". It's pretty obvious he's wearing a wig to like 99.9% of the population on earth. So I have no idea why he would even be advising Finasteride. It's calculated that Donald Trump says 23.8 lies per day and there's a reason why he has been voted out of office and labeled as the worst American president. So believing anything Donald Trump says is foolish. Of course a man pretending to have hair instead of a wig will use Finasteride as an alibi as to why their "hair" has maintained.

Then we have Wayne Rooney who literally went bald in his very early 20's and everyone knows because he stated it himself openly that he went for a Hair Transplant at 25 years old and with the money he had, several touch ups are to be expected over the years. So if Finasteride really worked, he wouldn't have been bald in the first place. With the money he had even before he got to Manchester United and being in the public eye, his hair would have obviously been of major concern and he would have obviously been on FDA approved stuff like Finasteride, but it evidently didn't stop his hairloss because he went bald.

As for Ashton Kutcher, he wasn't even on Finasteride. He apparently used Dutasteride, but people have said it did not look like he had any hairloss to begin with because we've all seen him act in several movies and TV shows and series from the time he was young and he has always had a full head of hair with no visible hairloss. So take everything you read with a pinch of salt.

Also, the statement regarding that people who use Finasteride and don't get sides don't use forums and go about their normal lives off the internet is false. People who use Finasteride or Dutasteride have first experienced a substantial amount of hairloss to guide them to use hairloss treatments in the first place. This notion you mentioned of people using Finasteride and not experiencing sides and going about their lives off the internet is a huge misconception.


The reason is because Finasteride doesn't just work the instant you take it. It takes several months to work, usually at the very least 6 months but more commonly between you 8 months to a year for a noticeable difference (when and if any).
During this time the large majority of Finasteride users experience several long sheds which to any sane person would cause a lot of worry and will result in people visiting hair loss forums. It just makes logical sense as is human nature. The sheds while using Finasteride are notoriously brutal for the majority of Finasteride users regardless of whether you get side effects or not and are actually standard for Finasteride users. So it will cause the majority of users to go online and read and post about their experiences. So writing off what you read online completely isn't a good idea. But should be kept in the back of your mind as a safety precaution.

Secondly, the reason I dont believe 80% of hairloss is stopped in men, is because the only studies that claim this are the same studies that just so happen to leave out just how much of side effects their drugs really cause and how much higher the side effects rate are. Omitting information is just as bad as corruption.
So it speaks a lot about the integrity of the companies that produce Finasteride such as Merck. These are major scars.

Also, Finasteride is not the best hairloss treatment. It's one of the only FDA approved treatments for Hairloss. Theres a huge difference. People state that they don't use it because they like it but because of lack of other FDA approved treatments, which is what the uniformed usually look for - approved treatments - which is the only reason Finasteride has more users than other hairloss treatments.

We're also finding that it's often the case that off-label treatments are more effective than approved treatments with less side effects too.

An example in the hairloss industry is Ketoconazole Shampoo which is in the Big 3 for Hairloss treatment yet has no significant studies proving the link between how it blocks DHT but its said that it somehow manages to locally block DHT without the side effects of Finasteride.

Another example, is how the Ivermectin Drug for COVID-19 is having far better results as a treatment for Covid than current approved Covid vaccines. So yeah take these FDA approved things and FDA data with a pinch of salt too.

Also, just because someone is fully developed doesn't mean blocking of DHT will be less dangerous. As mentioned here, blocking 70% of the most potent male hormone for any period especially prolonged periods systemically, will logically cause a lot of bad side effects. I'll provide studies.
 
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Micky_007

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"More than 1,100 Propecia-related lawsuits filed across the U.S. against Merck were consolidated before Judge Cogan in so-called multidistrict litigation (MDL). Merck agreed to settle most of them last year for $4.3 million, to be divided among the plaintiffs. Prior to the settlement, plaintiffs’ lawyers cited internal company communications to allege that in revisions to the drug’s original label, Merck understated the number of men who experienced sexual symptoms in clinical trials, and how long those symptoms lasted. Merck settled before responding to the allegation in court."


If you want to get into technicalities regarding the definition of a settlement, if Merk or Propecia actually won, they wouldn't have made a settlement and paid people out even $1. But here they are paying $4.3 MILLION dollars. You can say it's technically not a "win" but for most, I see it as a loss for Propecia.

Furthermore, Merck intentionally leaving out the other side effects on Finasteride was not a small thing as forgetting. They knew well what these side effects were bu left them out because they knew it would negatively affect sales. These are major major major problems because you can't just get away with that without paying people to keep quiet, paying scientists and FDA to keep quiet and also secretly funding "independent" studies because there's so many studies that contradict these "independent studies" that portray Finasteride in a less harmful light.

"
The sealed document also cites a 2016 sworn deposition in which a plaintiffs’ lawyer asked former Merck marketing vice president Paul Howes: “So you knew internally that if these sexual adverse events were prolonged or lengthened or never went away, that that would be something that would impact sales in a negative way. Right?”

“Yes,” Howes said.

Howes, who held that marketing job from 1998 until 2001, declined to comment for this article.


SALES DOWNER: In a 2016 deposition Reuters reviewed, former Merck marketing executive Paul Howes testified about the business risk posed by Propecia’s possible side effects."


No you're wrong again, there's actually a plethora of studies that show Finasteride is actually way worse, I'll cite you more stuff:

"The rate of sexual dysfunction was “significantly higher” in men who took finasteride compared to men who took the placebo, according to the study’s authors.

Impotence occurred in *15.8 percent* of finasteride users while 6.3 percent of placebo users reported the issue. The study’s authors published the results in the November 1996 issue of Canadian Medical Association Journal.

Also in 1996, a much larger observational cohort study published in British Journal of Urology used prescription-event monitoring to gather information on 14,772 patients. ED was the *most frequently reported side effect with finasteride*. It was also the most common reason for stopping the medication.

*Persistent Erectile Dysfunction* :

In March 2017, a Northwestern Medicine study found that some men who took finasteride suffered persistent erectile dysfunction in which they were not able to have normal erections for months or years after stopping the medication.

Out of 11,909 men who took finasteride or dutasteride, 1.4 percent developed persistent erectile dysfunction that continued for an average of about 1,350 days after stopping treatment, according to the study. "Young men who had more than 205 days of exposure to the drug had nearly five times higher risk of persistent erectile dysfunction than men with shorter exposure.*

Researchers published their findings in the open access journal PeerJ. "

" *Loss of Libido* :

Another side effect reported with Propecia use is a reduced interest in sex. In fact, *loss of libido was the most common sexual side effect reported in a 2011 study of finasteride users* published in the Journal of Sexual Medicine.

Researchers from the George Washington University School of Medicine interviewed 71 patients who experienced sexual side effects after using finasteride. The researchers found that *94 percent of men experienced a decline in libido.*

“Such significant and undesirable complications in relation to sexual function produce a well-documented negative impact on quality of life.”

Source: August 2003 review in International Journal of Impotence Research"

"*Problems Continue After Drug Use Stops* :

Following the early drug trials, both Merck and the FDA assured men that the sexual complications would resolve once they stopped taking the drug, but later evidence would prove the contrary.

"*The preapproval trials were not especially reliable, as the information was drawn from a relatively small patient group treated for only six months to one year, and follow-up procedures were unclear.*

*More recent investigations show the drug’s sexual side effects can persist even after a man stops taking the drug. In some cases, the complications are irreversible."*

" The man stopped taking the drug about a month later, and while some side effects disappeared, his sexual function never returned to normal. In a follow-up 11 years later, he still suffered from erectile dysfunction and loss of libido. The researchers published their study in the Journal of Sexual Medicine.

In 2011, George Washington University urologist Michael S. Irwig and his colleague Swapna Kolukula published their assessment of 71 finasteride patients who reported long-term sexual side effects that persisted after discontinuation of the drug.

The selected group of patients (young men between the ages of 21 and 46) took a survey that revealed a wide range of sexual side effects that arose after Propecia use, including problems with erectile function, arousal, sexual desire, orgasm and orgasm satisfaction.

The men had taken the drug for an average of 28 months. The sexual side effects continued for an average of 40 months after the men stopped taking the drug.

Upon following up with 54 of these patients one year later, Irwig discovered that *96 percent of the men were still suffering from the sexual dysfunctions* they initially reported. None of the men reported sexual, psychiatric or medical complaints before taking finasteride.

“The argument that the benefits of these drugs outweigh the risks is slowly eroding in the face of new emerging scientific evidence from preclinical and clinical studies.”

June 2014 study in Korean Journal of Urology

A 2014 review in Korean Journal of Urology found at least four previous studies that reported “persistent or irreversible” sexual side effects. The authors said the studies reported “negative emotional toll and reduced quality of life” for the men affected.

“The argument that the benefits of these drugs outweigh the risks is slowly eroding in the face of new emerging scientific evidence from preclinical and clinical studies,” the authors wrote.

Men who suffered long-term sexual dysfunction after taking Propecia have filed lawsuits against Merck that accuse the company of failing to warn users of the risk.

*Sexual Dysfunction and Suicidal Thoughts* :

Researchers have also found an increased risk of depressive symptoms and suicidal thoughts among men who suffered sexual side effects of Propecia. Irwig reported the connection in a 2012 study in the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry.

Irwig looked at 61 former finasteride users who experienced sexual dysfunction for three months or longer after they quit the medication. He compared them to a control group of 29 men who had male pattern hair loss but who had never used the drug.

He found that *44 percent of the former Propecia patients experienced suicidal thoughts* compared to just 3 percent of men who never used the drug.

*The rate of depressive symptoms was 75 percent in the men who had used finasteride* and 10 percent in the control group. Sixty-four percent of the former finasteride users suffered moderate or severe depressive symptoms. None of the men in the control group experienced the same issues."

" FDA Warns of Additional Problems and Risks
When evidence conflicted with Merck’s original assertion that the sexual side effects of Propecia would stop once treatment ends, the FDA required the manufacturer to revise the drug’s safety label accordingly.
 
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