wont use finasteride... what should I start with?

[Zen2Bald]

If anything, I'm impressed by the safety measures taken in the fluridil study...the whole point being, what is the effect of fluridil when absorbed into the skin? Luckily Eucapil seems to have taken that danger into account and water renders fluridil void, which discounts it from ever being a systemic threat...

...and isopropyl alcohol? It's called rubbing alcohol for a reason. It's used in skin care products all over the place, and I really believe we would have heard more about it if it were potentially a real problem. I'm not going to sniff or drink it, and I think we'd have watched a 20/20 episode about it long ago if it was a real threat.

Well most people dont put isopropyl alcohol on their scalp EVERY day for life. That is the difference. Also I'm not sure that there are not that many cosmetic products that use it. I did an extensive search and only found 2 (both were from 1992 or earlier and gave no indication that they were sitll being sold).

I know they say that they *somehow* modified fluridil so that it would break down in water, but I wish that they would explain this a bit more. Perhaps I will email them.

Really the main thing I dont like is that the study was supervised by an interpharma employee. There is really no excuse for that.


I will probably end up ordering it soon...but these lingering questions do bother me.

 

[bluesmiley]

Yeah, I don't have a great explanation for why an Interpharma employee would supervise the study, but I do have a possible explanation...
- the study wasn't meant to be as comprehensive and stringent (and consequently, as expensive) as an FDA study, and for Eucapil's purposes, why NOT have an employee there making sure that the more modest study was conducted professionally?

Of course there's always the potential for foul-play, but I guess it comes down to whether you believe foul-play actually happened. I don't really know, but I could definitely see why a company would want to have some level of supervision over a smaller study not subject to an FDA level of scrutiny.

Really, I decided to purchase Eucapil because the study seems solid, even if an Interpharma did supervise it, and I've read more positive testimonials about it than negative ones. Could be a crapshoot, I know, but don't expect ANY NEW topical to have an FDA style study conducted on it in quite a long time, if ever, for reasons I outlined earlier in this thread.

 

[viperfish]

I think the fact that the study was published in "Dermatology Surgey" says miles about it. Whether or not an interpharma employee was there to supervise the study I really don't think makes that big of a difference. I don't think there is any way the study would have been published in this prestigious journal if it was somehow "flawed". There was also 4 medical doctors and 1 phd working on this study and I'm sure that even if an interpharma employee was there that all 5 of these educated guys would have been ok with swaying the results some. The only cases where I have seen isopropyl alcohol to be a problem is where the alcohol was actually inhaled over a lengthy period of time and not through dermal absorption. I think the biggest concern is whether the alcohol will cause irritation or not on the scalp and whether one will be able to tolerate it.

 

[jimmystanley]

viper.....have you considerd using apple vinegar on your scalp? i just bought some and am excited to try using some tonight!

 

[bluesmiley]

viper.....have you considerd using apple vinegar on your scalp? i just bought some and am excited to try using some tonight!

I've found that apple vinegar actually aggravates my scalp over time and causes an increased shed. Plus, the smell is way too strong. When I was using that as the foundation of my regimen, I had to convince people that I was the foreman of a local apple orchard. Some chicks thought that was cool, but they still couldn't get past the smell. Plus the shed, my god the shed!!!

 

[jimmystanley]

ah brutal man...that was my next hope for seborrhea derm...

 

[MiddleAgedManiac]

SEb Derm

I got my Seb. Derm. in check using nizoral 2X per week (let it sit 5 min) and no hot water rinses. I also use the suds on my beard and mustache area...works excellent. On certain areas of my face I use the creme mixed with pure vit-e oil. to keep the scaling down. I used to have it bad, but it has been kept in check for 6 years.

 

[bluesmiley]

Hah, Jimmy, I actually thought you were lauching a sarcastic barb at Viper with your apple vinegar comment...had no idea it's good for the scalp. ;P

Try tea tree oil shampoos (Paul Mitchell makes a good one) alternated with Nizoral...love the tea tree oil.

 

[Zen2Bald]

Very good points everyone.

After considerable thought, I'm ordering it right now.

 

[Demlotcrew]

Go on Zen you know you want to!

8)

 

[doggfather]

Zen,
I have two boxes of Fluridil I will sell for $100 or one for $50 if you live in the US. email me at doggfatherjunk@yahoo.com if you are interested

 

[jimmystanley]

haha bluesmiley...ya, i was being serious about the vinegar. i've heard a lot of good things about it...enough to make me try it. i'm also going to start using my own zix solution...just thought it might appeal to viper for his irratation

 

[viperfish]

Well kinda got bad news. My scalp is real itchy today and burns slightly. I don't think I'm gonna be able to tolerate the stuff. I did not think it would bother my scalp, but it seems to be doing a wonderful job at it. Pretty mad about this and I think I might have flushed $160 bucks down the drain. I emailed menspharma to see if I can send it back, but I'm sure that they don't have a money back guarantee. I see they now offer eucapil in 1,2, and 3 month supplies. I would have bought the 1 month supply if it was available about two weeks ago to try it out. I'm gonna try and stick it out with the eucapil for another week to see if I adjust to it. However, I might have a couple of boxes to sell if someone was interested. :x

 

[Zen2Bald]

That sux. I wonder why they didn't think of this before hand??
The study says that it was non-irritating... seems a little bizarre.

" Two percent and 4% fluridil in isopropanol was applied to the forearm skin of human volunteers, where it proved nonirritating and devoid of sensitization potential in both the induction and challenge phase [Sovak et al., 2002a]."

Although this isn't the scalp...

I found the full PDF of the fluridil studies (15 pages) if anyone can host it, let me know via PM and I will send it.


Viper I PMed ya.

 

[bluesmiley]

Viper, do you use Folligen at all?
Maybe I just have a tolerant scalp, but I use Folligen/Reviogen/Eucapil/Nizoral as recommended with not even a hint of scalp irritation...
That really sucks if it's hurting your scalp though.

 

[viperfish]

That sux. I wonder why they didn't think of this before hand??
The study says that it was non-irritating... seems a little bizarre.

" Two percent and 4% fluridil in isopropanol was applied to the forearm skin of human volunteers, where it proved nonirritating and devoid of sensitization potential in both the induction and challenge phase [Sovak et al., 2002a]."

Although this isn't the scalp...

I found the full PDF of the fluridil studies (15 pages) if anyone can host it, let me know via PM and I will send it.



Viper I PMed ya.

In the study they mention that it is non-irritating like you said. However, I have heard a few people say they could not tolerate it. That is the only bad remark I have heard on the stuff.

 

[viperfish]

Viper, do you use Folligen at all?
Maybe I just have a tolerant scalp, but I use Folligen/Reviogen/Eucapil/Nizoral as recommended with not even a hint of scalp irritation...
That really sucks if it's hurting your scalp though.

Yeah maybe I should order some cu peptides (folligen or american crew) and see if that helps some.

 

[Demlotcrew]

Man that suxs!

Its been week for me and nothing, no scratching. Dude if you sell the stuff i might be interested in it.

Andrew

 

[Demlotcrew]

Try the nutrogena healthy scalp shampoo i was talking about its very good.

Andrew

 

[bluesmiley]

Yeah, I think I attribute my scalp health on rotating tea tree oil shampoo with Nizoral, and using Folligen at least 4 times a week. I did have periodic itching when I wasn't using tea tree oil shampoo or Folligen, but not since.