With Haircloning Available - Could You Reach A Unlimited Density With Multiply Hairtransplants?

[randolf_faust]

theoretical question (please no discussion if would reasonable or not - thats not the point of the question):


imagine hairfolicle cloning is real and a guy would be willing ot undergo an unilimited number of hairtransplants: what would be the maximum density he could reach per cm^2 ? in theory...

for comparison:


dense packing is like 100-120 hairs per cm^2

natural hair density for men is around 200 to 260 hairs per cm^2

pre teenage boys can have up to 400 hairs per cm^2

for girls and women i couldnt find anything about their natural density but i would be interested how high the number is there.

source:

https://www.prohairclinic.com/en/high-density-implantation-dense-packing-hair-transplant
https://www.quora.com/How-many-hairs-per-square-centimeter-do-humans-have-in-the-scalp



could you reach a density of 400 hairs per cm^2 in various sessions? or even more? is there even a limit?

 

[Dus]

What's the point of this? By that time you'd have reached an age where that density looks unnatural anyway. Remember, this sh*t isn't reversible once it's there.

 

[randolf_faust]

What's the point of this? By that time you'd have reached an age where that density looks unnatural anyway. Remember, this sh*t isn't reversible once it's there.

its not about if its reasonable or not - my question is theoretical nature

is the limited donor hair supply the only limiting factor that is currently holding us back regarding density?

could you - in theory and given hair cloning is available - reach a unlimited density with multiple hairtransplants?

 

[Me Vs DiffuseThinning]

What's the point of this? By that time you'd have reached an age where that density looks unnatural anyway. Remember, this sh*t isn't reversible once it's there.

Wrong. You can reverse it. Just do a FUE and extract follicles from your hair.

 

[Pot Noodle]

I think scar tissue and scar tethering would limit it.

 

[Mandar kumthekar]

No,unlimited could not be possible because to feed those follicles would need too much blood. Guy could reach natural density as per his vascularization.

 

[kiwipilu]

I think scar tissue and scar tethering would limit it.

Some burned victims have hair transplant, some people with scarring alopecia still have hair transplants, people who got a FUT procedure go for FUE to hide the scar and the list goes on..
I don't know what people fear... Human body is amazing, as is neogenesis...
I dont see anything that could limit it but money.

 

[Jesse14]

I still don't know if there is a for sure answer on this: Is the necrosis and issues with packing hairs at a natural density only a problem in SINGULAR hair transplants that could be solved with MULTIPLE transplants to increase density. I think that is what OP is really getting at.

 

[kiwipilu]

https://www.hairtransplantmentor.com/hair-transplant-necrosis/

so what? you will also find people who had necrosis after a hair transplant but still regrew hairs afterwards....Obv (and unsurprisingly they often happen in cheap clinics in turkey

 

[clarence-forgotpassword]

With hair transplants, you can never achieve your original density, not even with unlimited donor. This is the opinion of Turkey's finest surgeon, Dr. Koray Erdogan whom I consulted. "According to the professional personal evaluation, Dr. Koray Erdogan does not believe a hair transplantation surgery can make you achieve the density you seek for."

"It should also be kept in mind that you can never achieve the native hair density (60-90 follicles/cm2) by hair transplantation and the aim of hair restoration is not letting you have the same density you would have originally. It only is to create an illusion of the coverage with ca 46-50 grafts/cm2 and techniques. Because, transplanting more than 50 grafts/cm2 would decrease the regrwoth rate and the results would be the same with transplanting 46-50 grafts."

"Lastly, if a hair transplantation surgery was conducted, your existing grafts would be damaged resulting in stimulated hair loss and this is the reason that you are not recommended to undergo this minor hair transplantation surgery."

 

[clarence-forgotpassword]

this is not a hair transplant

You probably mean Tsuji. But the OP was asking generally about hair transplants with unlimited donor.

 

[Jesse14]

With hair transplants, you can never achieve your original density, not even with unlimited donor. This is the opinion of Turkey's finest surgeon, Dr. Koray Erdogan whom I consulted. "According to the professional personal evaluation, Dr. Koray Erdogan does not believe a hair transplantation surgery can make you achieve the density you seek for."

"It should also be kept in mind that you can never achieve the native hair density (60-90 follicles/cm2) by hair transplantation and the aim of hair restoration is not letting you have the same density you would have originally. It only is to create an illusion of the coverage with ca 46-50 grafts/cm2 and techniques. Because, transplanting more than 50 grafts/cm2 would decrease the regrwoth rate and the results would be the same with transplanting 46-50 grafts."

"Lastly, if a hair transplantation surgery was conducted, your existing grafts would be damaged resulting in stimulated hair loss and this is the reason that you are not recommended to undergo this minor hair transplantation surgery."

Interesting. Could you link me to the last quote? Everything else I have read only mentions density issues in regards to singular transplants.

 

[Subigang]

no, tsuji will not be a hair transplant. it will be an injection of two different kind of cells cultured in a medium that then will produce a hair follicle just like it happens when you are in your mothers womb, there won't be any grafts, there won't be any dense packing because you don't need it. the limitation of density in hair transplant is not by the lack of donor supply but rather due to there being too much trauma for the scalp, it will lead to shock loss and fall out. remember what you are doing there, this is invasive surgery over and over again. it will lead to scaring and necrosis

https://www.hairtransplantmentor.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/hair-transplant-necrosis.jpg


this approach si different and has an advantage due it being less harmful for the scalp and more natural, they say you should be able to achieve higher amounts of density. but not due to a higher supply of donor hair(well that too obviously) but mostly because its a completely different approach.

this explains it well

2.40

But Tsuji’s method can take you from NW7 to NW1 with decent density, correct? Or would the density be bad?

 

[clarence-forgotpassword]

This is from a reply to my plans about a second hair transplant. I had the impression Koray Erdogan is here considered one of the best surgeons in the world or at least the best surgeon in Turkey.

Interesting. Could you link me to the last quote? Everything else I have read only mentions density issues in regards to singular transplants.

 

[randolf_faust]

View attachment 126092


This is from a reply to my plans about a second hair transplant. I had the impression Koray Erdogan is here considered one of the best surgeons in the world or at least the best surgeon in Turkey.

so even with multiple hairtransplants you cant go over a certain density? do i understand this right?

because he writes hairtransplant instead of hairtransplantS ?

 

[Jesse14]

View attachment 126092


This is from a reply to my plans about a second hair transplant. I had the impression Koray Erdogan is here considered one of the best surgeons in the world or at least the best surgeon in Turkey.

Wow. Thank you. I have been looking for an answer to this for quite a while, most surgeons always mentioned "singular transplant" when they spoke about the problems with high density. I even emailed a couple surgeons for an answer to no avail.

 

[clarence-forgotpassword]

Wow. Thank you. I have been looking for an answer to this for quite a while, most surgeons always mentioned "singular transplant" when they spoke about the problems with high density. I even emailed a couple surgeons for an answer to no avail.

Dr. Rassman of baldingblog.com says the complete opposite. So someone knows what they're talking about, and the other one is full of sh*t.


"Perhaps there is a misunderstanding that I would like to clear up.

There is no limitation on the density of transplanted hairs, except on a per session basis. How close you can put the grafts together during surgery depend on the width of the grafts (not hair). Some grafts can be 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch wide.

You must understand that hair transplant surgery involves moving hair from one location to another location. It does not create new hair. Let’s say that you got 35% of your original density in one session, then you want the same number of grafts transplanted again, assuming that the donor supply is as good, you can probably come close to doubling the 35%. Again, if you then wanted to do another 35% equivalent grafts, you will be getting close to 100% of the original density. There is actually some limits to this process, for example, what is the size of the donor area, the blood supply and the availability of grafts from the donor area. When grafts are placed very, very close together, we call this term “dense packing”, a term I defined in 1994 in the Hair Transplant Forum.

If you are a completely bald Norwood 6 patient and want your original density of 200 hairs in a square centimeter, where would the donor hairs come from? You only have a limited number of donor hair and the surgeon has to use judgement to create the most effective use with limited number of donor hairs you have. Unless there is cloning, putting in an unlimited number of hairs is impossible.

If you are a Norwood 3 and want the original donor hair density, then it may be possible with multiple surgeries. (Rassman)"

 

[clarence-forgotpassword]

so even with multiple hairtransplants you cant go over a certain density? do i understand this right?

because he writes hairtransplant instead of hairtransplantS ?

No. I've had previous surgery, and wanted to add density (around 300 grafts). Not possible, says Erdogan.

 

[randolf_faust]

Dr. Rassman of baldingblog.com says the complete opposite. So someone knows what they're talking about, and the other one is full of sh*t.


"Perhaps there is a misunderstanding that I would like to clear up.

There is no limitation on the density of transplanted hairs, except on a per session basis. How close you can put the grafts together during surgery depend on the width of the grafts (not hair). Some grafts can be 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch wide.

You must understand that hair transplant surgery involves moving hair from one location to another location. It does not create new hair. Let’s say that you got 35% of your original density in one session, then you want the same number of grafts transplanted again, assuming that the donor supply is as good, you can probably come close to doubling the 35%. Again, if you then wanted to do another 35% equivalent grafts, you will be getting close to 100% of the original density. There is actually some limits to this process, for example, what is the size of the donor area, the blood supply and the availability of grafts from the donor area. When grafts are placed very, very close together, we call this term “dense packing”, a term I defined in 1994 in the Hair Transplant Forum.

If you are a completely bald Norwood 6 patient and want your original density of 200 hairs in a square centimeter, where would the donor hairs come from? You only have a limited number of donor hair and the surgeon has to use judgement to create the most effective use with limited number of donor hairs you have. Unless there is cloning, putting in an unlimited number of hairs is impossible.

If you are a Norwood 3 and want the original donor hair density, then it may be possible with multiple surgeries. (Rassman)"

im confused. didnt erdogan said the opposite?

 

[clarence-forgotpassword]

im confused. didnt erdogan said the opposite?

Yes, Erdogan said the opposite. The latter quote ("perhaps there is a misunderstanding that....") was from baldingblog.com (Rassman), get it?