Why The Galea Is The Fundamental Cause Of Male Pattern Balding (& Androgens Are Secondary)

[IdealForehead]

Thanks for taking the time to actually reply @IdealForehead

Now you've said hair on the scalp is a different organ type to body hair. Ok. So why do you actually need this galea theory at all to explain the norwood pattern? If you're willing to concede that hair characteristics differ across the body why cant you accept that the reasons for balding are due to androgens and something intrinsic to the follicle itself?

Note that Androgenetic Alopecia is one of many hair loss types. DUPA, telogen effluvium, non androgenic alopecia. None of these fit into the galea theory.

Even look at androgenetic alopecia patients who bald in a diffuse manner! They dont start at the points of higher mechanical stress, all ths follicles on top fall out evenly, sometimes their hairlines are actually preserved. So even though their follices are in the galea, androgens affect them differently. How do you explain this?

Again, this theory exists only to explain the mechanism via which galeal tension leads to upregulation of androgen sensitivity genes in the Norwood pattern, which is the primary pattern of androgen sensitivity for probably at least 95%+ of men and women (once you account for scalp aromatase in women).

Differential patterns of the Norwood geography are likely best explained by this thread:
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...alopecia-von-mises-2d-analysis-models.113276/

In it, you can see how with just very slightly different muscular stress patterns exerted on the galea the tension pattern changes dramatically. This can easily explain a great degree of variation in the patterns. Some patterns develop very even tension over the whole galea. It is conceivable these could be the diffuse thinners who simply thin all over until they hit NW7.

Telogen effluvium is a different type of hair loss altogether from androgenic alopecia. It is a condition where stress or other triggers cause hair cycles to become disrupted and go into premature telogen. This theory is not meant to explain that. Nor is it meant to explain auto-immune conditions or rare aberrations from the usual pattern, where there is likely some unusual extra unknown feature causing that aberration.

Scientific progress is incremental. This is not meant to provide an explanation for every single reason a person can lose their hair. Nor is it meant to be an explanation for how pubic hair develops. Saying you need an explanation for "everything all at once" or you will close your mind is not being reasonable.

As for "why" such a theory is necessary, in truth, it isn't. Many people don't have interest in knowing "why" anything happens in the body or life. There is no curiosity and there is no desire to figure out how things work. If that is your perspective, then none of this matters.

But from a developmental biology perspective, everything in the body happens for a reason. There is always a biochemical pathway that mediates differentiation of cells. If someone asks you how does a tooth develop, can you just say "by genetics" or "it just does because it does"? Well sure, genetics hold the code to making a tooth. But how does the genetic program get tweaked and modified, with parts activated and inactivated, until we go from a single celled zygote into eventually a tooth? Many cascading protein chains and environmental influences coalesce over the course of development to turn on and off genes and eventually produce that specialization.

The human body is too complex for anyone to yet explain every step of every tissue's complete development. Incrementally though, scientists explain one bit at a time. And little by little we get closer to learning the entire process that makes a human. How we make a muscle. How we make a pubic hair. How we make a head hair. How we make a Norwood zone.

In this case, we are talking specifically about the differentiation of the Norwood pattern. Just like everything else in the body, some sort of chemical signalling chain must occur in order for the Norwood zones to differentiate and develop their androgen sensitivities in that pattern. Genes don't turn themselves off and on automatically. Not directly, anyway. That's not how development works. There is always a process. This is the best explanation available based on current evidence for the process by which the Norwood pattern develops.

 

[HairCook]

Galeanomy exists for many decades and got prohibited in many countries. It is a worthless and uselessly risky.

Just move on to real theories.

You can still get it done in belgia. Go ahead and show us proof.

 

[IdealForehead]

Galeanomy exists for many decades and got prohibited in many countries. It is a worthless and uselessly risky.

Just move on to real theories.

You can still get it done in belgia. Go ahead and show us proof.

Did you read the thread? There is no reason to expect galeotomy would fix anything.

This theory explains how Norwood programming gets entered into the hair's DNA and function during development. It doesn't suggest you should try cutting up your galea. As I said in the thread, this would be a bad idea as it will just compromise the tissue and damage blood supply.

 

[rclark]

This theory doesn't really explain a couple of things:


1. Why some men never go bald. They would have the same distribution.


2. Why some go bald faster than others.


3. Some guys do go bald further than the top area.

 

[IdealForehead]

This theory doesn't really explain a couple of things:


1. Why some men never go bald. They would have the same distribution.


2. Why some go bald faster than others.


3. Some guys do go bald further than the top area.

I explained #1 and #2 multiple times in the thread. Men with extremely aggressive balding lose hair even in the NW7 zone. This is likely a manifestation of genetic predisposition to extreme androgen sensitivity and/or extreme mechanical stress sensitivity where even the mild natural stresses that would occur in the NW7 zone are sufficient to mediate upregulation of androgen sensitivity genes.

To reiterate, in general this theory suggests some men have scalp structures where mechanical tension is not as well transmitted to the hair follicles as for balding men, and/or their follicles are not genetically capable of the same androgen upregulation in response to the pressure as balding men.

Galeal stress can upregulate androgen sensitivity genes in the Norwood pattern. But you would still need to be born with the right/wrong genes for this process to occur. If you were not born with the genes for mechanical stress transmission or androgen upregulation, you won't go bald because there will be nothing there for the galeal stress to induce.

 

[kiwipilu]

I explained #1 and #2 multiple times in the thread. Men with extremely aggressive balding lose hair even in the NW7 zone. This is likely a manifestation of genetic predisposition to extreme androgen sensitivity and/or extreme mechanical stress sensitivity where even the mild natural stresses that would occur in the NW7 zone are sufficient to mediate upregulation of androgen sensitivity genes.

To reiterate, in general this theory suggests some men have scalp structures where mechanical tension is not as well transmitted to the hair follicles as for balding men, and/or their follicles are not genetically capable of the same androgen upregulation in response to the pressure as balding men.

Galeal stress can upregulate androgen sensitivity genes in the Norwood pattern. But you would still need to be born with the right/wrong genes for this process to occur. If you were not born with the genes for mechanical stress transmission or androgen upregulation, you won't go bald because there will be nothing there for the galeal stress to induce.

You did not explain you just gave an input. but it does not mean anything... This is one theory among hundred of others ; ) but a lot of theories are somewhat linked: cause,consequence...

 

[IdealForehead]

You did not explain you just gave an input. but it does not mean anything... This is one theory among hundred of others ; )

Are you aware of any other theory that explains in a precise way how the Norwood pattern develops, taking into account the observations that galeal stress mirrors the Norwood pattern exactly and there is a known mechanism for translating galeal stress into androgen sensitivity?

I have seen no other explanation for these things.

 

[kiwipilu]

Are you aware of any other theory that explains how the Norwood pattern develos, taking into account that galeal stress mirrors the Norwood pattern exactly and there is a known mechanism for translating galeal stress into androgen sensitivity?

I have seen no other explanation for these things.

ok if you just point out the norwood pattern only. I mean the "by default" pattern: receiding then, crown thinning... but unfortunately it's not that easy. the thing is there are infinite numbers of patterns, you should consider them all. Some lose hairs only near the ears. some men have ludwig hairloss.and some women have receiding hairline similar to norwood pattern in men. some people only lose in nape but still have awesome hair density on top... I mean this can't be as easy as this theory but this is still a theory for the norwood receiding/crown pattern hairloss... why not .)

 

[IdealForehead]

ok if you just point out the norwood pattern only. I mean the "by default" pattern: receiding then, crown thinning... but unfortunately it's not that easy. the thing is there are infinite numbers of patterns, you should consider them all. Some lose hairs only near the ears. some men have ludwig hairloss.and some women have receiding hairline similar to norwood pattern in men. some people only lose in nape but still have awesome hair density on top... I mean this can't be as easy as this theory

Again, the theory explains how roughly 95% or more of men and women go bald (once aromatase is accounted for in women). Differences in individual patterns of balding are best explained by this thread, where as you can see very slight deviations in mechanical stress based on different angles of muscle tension (ie. based on skull structure) can manifest in completely different patterns of hair loss:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...alopecia-von-mises-2d-analysis-models.113276/

Science is incremental. The best theory is the one that integrates the most evidence and explains the largest burden of what we see in nature in a coherent way. This is the best theory for explaining Norwood patterning.

This theory explains the general rule. Individuals with rare abnormal balding patterns likely have rare abnormal other issues that have induced those patterns. You need to understand the general rule before you can explain rare aberrations.

This is how science progresses. No one woke up understanding the mechanics of a black hole from nothing. First we had to understand gravity, then how mass and energy can be interconverted, etc. Science is always incremental.

 

[Armando Jose]

My theory explain the pattern and timing of common baldness, in men and women.
The crown, midle and front line are the areas more easy affected by problems with sebum flow. Oxidated sebum is bad for a scalp hair. Areas around the head are unaffected from this sebum problem, the reason is simple, they are in contact with a absorbent surface several hours a day.

But it is other history,

 

[Sweet Seventeen]

Hmm, interesting...
Could this explain why we go balder faster than our ancestors? I mean, it's a known phenomen that humans have gotten smarter and smarter, and our brains have increased drastically in size - therefore also our heads. People speculate that it will become difficult giving birth to our children, as our heads increase. So:
Is this why humans tend to go balder and balder?

 

[Duduu]

Hmm, interesting...
Could this explain why we go balder faster than our ancestors? I mean, it's a known phenomen that humans have gotten smarter and smarter, and our brains have increased drastically in size - therefore also our heads. People speculate that it will become difficult giving birth to our children, as our heads increase. So:
Is this why humans tend to go balder and balder?

Masturbation/ejaculation
Thats why you see more and more men going bald so early compared to previous generations

 

[ripple-effect]

This theory doesn't really explain a couple of things:


1. Why some men never go bald. They would have the same distribution.


2. Why some go bald faster than others.


3. Some guys do go bald further than the top area.

It does explain it - re-read it

 

[Distressed]

But that doesn't explain why when MtF transition, they get long lost hair back like the tension never even happened.

If this theory is true, you realize we'd all be fucked long term and there's nothing we can do to even stop this?

 

[IdealForehead]

But that doesn't explain why when MtF transition, they get long lost hair back like the tension never even happened.

If this theory is true, you realize we'd all be fucked long term and there's nothing we can do to even stop this?

Big regrowth of hair on MtF gender transition involves:

• Severe androgen deprivation, usually with spironolactone/cypro - These cut off the supply of androgens which damage the hair. Testosterone and DHT go to nearly zero. Without androgens, the ongoing cycle of inflammation is interrupted.
• Estrogen supplementation - Estrogen, especially ER-beta stimulation, promotes hair growth. It also drives androgen levels down even further. See here for more information on the effects of estrogen on hair.
• Heavy growth stimulants - For example, oral minoxidil, which work through prostaglandins and other intermediaries to further stimulate hair growth.

This theory explains how galeal tension leads to genetic upregulation of androgen sensitivity genes in differing areas of the scalp during development, thus creating the Norwood pattern of androgen sensitivity. It does not suggest hair loss is untreatable or that there is nothing we can do to stop it. There are many things we can do to stop it.

However, none of these treatments undo the Norwood programming. That is with us for life, unless some new stem cell technology allows us to change it. For example, if you stop the gender transition meds, the hair will go back to falling out in the Norwood pattern.

If you fully read my initial post in this thread, I explained how all these drugs work to intervene in the balding pathways that are triggered by this process.

 

[MorningGlory]

Rather than viewing @IdealForehead ‘s post as a competing theory, it should be viewed as an enhancement of our existing knowledge. It’s analogous to science’s quest for a quantum gravity theory which replaces General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. Before General Relativity we had Newton’s theory. We may never have a complete understanding, but we can continually build on and refine our theories.

In terms of hair loss, we may never find the holy grail of a “cure”. However, if we continue to enhance our understanding we may be able to refine our regimens in order to more effectively combat our hair loss. We already know that hair loss can’t be attributed to a single agent, so the more understanding we have the better our chances for finding a working “cure” becomes.

 

[H]

Rather than viewing @IdealForehead ‘s post as a competing theory, it should be viewed as an enhancement of our existing knowledge. It’s analogous to science’s quest for a quantum gravity theory which replaces General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. Before General Relativity we had Newton’s theory. We may never have a complete understanding, but we can continually build on and refine our theories.

In terms of hair loss, we may never find the holy grail of a “cure”. However, if we continue to enhance our understanding we may be able to refine our regimens in order to more effectively combat our hair loss. We already know that hair loss can’t be attributed to a single agent, so the more understanding we have the better our chances for finding a working “cure” becomes.

Problem is Einstein and Newton loved physics and explaining the world and the things they were trying to explain were seen as a leap for humanity. How many people in the right positions give a f*** about male pattern baldness specifically?

I wondered how I would feel telling people I am researching a cure to hairloss as I balded aggressively like my dad before me. And I wondered if I would feel like my entire life would have been dedicated to vanity.

That really spoke to me because it's like who the hell would even no offense Ideal I get the reasons just using your quote as example but why would anybody set out to research and find a cure or treatment for this if there's actually perhaps a stigma around spending your life pursuing this type of thing? male pattern baldness is a no thing to society a fleeting thought at best.

 

[MorningGlory]

Problem is Einstein and Newton loved physics and explaining the world and the things they were trying to explain were seen as a leap for humanity. How many people in the right positions give a f*** about male pattern baldness specifically?

I used them only as an analogy for how the scientific method works. I wasn’t suggesting hair loss would ever have the importance of quantum physics. The point is with complex processes we can usually only expect to enhance our understanding rather than find an all encompassing explanation in one go.

 

[infinitepain]

I remember reading about this, coupled with the skull expansion theory, in which the skull expanded and generated these tensions. You haven't mentioned this in your post I think. What about the skull expanding? would make more sense to me, how else would the tension result? there needs to be a force.. or is fibrosis just enough to cause the tension?

There was even an study where they used a device to pull the scalp upwards, so going against the tension forces, and I think it was good, haircount was better, it was a japanese study I think, pretty old. The question is, where do we get that device from? Would be a free way to do it (free as in, long term you wouldn't need to spend a fortune in botox). Of course you can't wear that 24/7 tho...

Also what do you think about pillow theory? I've seen some mention this, namely, loss of blood flow from having your skull pressured against the pillow all night would result in hairloss. Has anyone noticed more hairloss in the temple in which you sit on during sleep for most of the night?

PS: Obviously, no one here is insane enough to negate the main role of androgens, but why not attack all posible sides.

Look man, you can keep telling yourself whatever you want; it doesn't change what actually went down.

I urge everyone to go over and actually read that thread if they haven't — He responded to each of the points and shot them down with studies that have solid data and pointed out how this theory contradicts proven medical practices.

The theory has been investigated and it has been debunked.

The effects of DHT upon genetic "defects" of the follicle itself are undeniably the cause of male pattern baldness; the decades of scientific study and the effectiveness of Anti-Androgens have proven this.

Studies using human cells like Jahoda, Tsuji, etc. have demonstrated for 20 years that it not only works to create hair but is a viable option for treating hairloss when it can be brought to market and their results further debunk the Galea theory.

What does all this mean? No matter how bad you want to believe it, anti-androgens like finasteride or transplants are your only chance of fighting this and your only future options are going to be cultivated cells that grow primordial hair follicles in-vitro and wounding protocols — like it or not.

What do galea theory haters propose to explain the infamous horseshoe pattern? this model is the one that makes the most sense to me.

 

[IdealForehead]

I remember reading about this, coupled with the skull expansion theory, in which the skull expanded and generated these tensions. You haven't mentioned this in your post I think. What about the skull expanding? would make more sense to me, how else would the tension result? there needs to be a force.. or is fibrosis just enough to cause the tension?

There was even an study where they used a device to pull the scalp upwards, so going against the tension forces, and I think it was good, haircount was better, it was a japanese study I think, pretty old. The question is, where do we get that device from? Would be a free way to do it (free as in, long term you wouldn't need to spend a fortune in botox). Of course you can't wear that 24/7 tho...

Tension is naturally induced onto the galea by the scalp muscles it attaches to. That is the purpose of the galea - to be a point of reference for scalp muscles to constantly pull on.

I did not get into skull shape changes with age as I was primarily trying to explain how the Norwood pattern gets created during development. I'm also unsure of the veracity or evidence for the claim that skulls shape changes significantly enough to alter this process over time.

But yes, that is one extra proposed feedback loop by which androgenic hair loss worsens:

- Androgens cause skull hypertrophy which increases galeal tension leading to further upregulation of androgen sensitivity genes in the follicles.

I doubt pillows make any significant effect. I don't think they could signficantly alter blood flow. I think the Norwood problem is likely mostly already coded into our heads from birth.