Why The Galea Is The Fundamental Cause Of Male Pattern Balding (& Androgens Are Secondary)

IdealForehead

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Take all the hair from the donor and transplant it on top..take the hair on top and retranspant the donor...problem solved ..

I'm sorry, but I don't think you've read the thread. That would not change Norwood-pattern androgen sensitivity epigenetic programming induced by galeal stress, which according to this theory might start even from before birth.
 

charlie76761

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V interesting theory - the alignment to muscle bands does seem more than just a coincidence (although with the complexity of hair loss, I wouldn't put my mortgage on it being so!)

Botox looks v interesting esp at close to 20% growth although I see they used 300 units which is about $1800 and would need repeating every 3 or 4 months so a bit cost prohibitive which is why I'm guessing no one carried out evaluating as a treatment.

Also quite a few comments and stories similar to this https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5096242/

I'm thinking may be more an outlier outcome but still would make you think twice about putting it in your scalp in case you react in the same manner.

What other possible treatments are we left with this theory (further to scalp massage)?

Thanks
 

Ollie

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@IdealForehead Wouldn't the rate of hairless be linear then ? Why do some people lose all there hair in 2 years at 20 years old whilst some might thing a bit then not lose substantial amounts until their latter years etc ..?

Also what do you do for a living lol . Clearly have a scientific background yet also somehow find the time to literally write a thousand words a day on the forums.
 

IdealForehead

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@IdealForehead Wouldn't the rate of hairless be linear then ? Why do some people lose all there hair in 2 years at 20 years old whilst some might thing a bit then not lose substantial amounts until their latter years etc ..?

Also what do you do for a living lol . Clearly have a scientific background yet also somehow find the time to literally write a thousand words a day on the forums.

I don't think anyone could quite answer for sure the questions of why hair loss starts at a certain point in age or why it progresses more rapidly in some men than others. However, I can offer a few theoretical explanations in the context of this research.

Primarily the initiation of balding could be conceived as the point when tension-mediated androgenic influences overwhelm the natural protective, growth, and repair functions of the follicles. The "tipping point" for this to happen would be established on an individual basis by several processes and factors. These are:

1) Subcutaneous fat under the skin of the scalp acts as a cushion for the skin, and it atrophies with age. As it atrophies, the stress the galea exerts on the hair follicles will increase. As the stress increases, androgen sensitivity and expression increase until eventually it overwhelms the natural follicular repair mechanisms. Once your reach that point, male pattern baldness begins to manifest. Additionally, increased androgens can provoke further fat atrophy creating a feedback loop.

2) Follicles in the galeal/Norwood zones may be continually upregulating androgen sensitivity genes due to mechanical stress from birth until late adulthood. Once these genes are upregulated to a significant enough degree, baldness perhaps begins, as the androgen feedback loop overwhelms the natural follicular repair mechanisms. Increased androgens will further increase galeal stress via scalp muscle hypertrophy, creating another feedback loop.

3) Galeal stress induces androgen sensitivity in the Norwood zones for different men to different degrees based on our fundamental genetics. Men for whom the galeal stress induces a great degree of androgen sensitivity will be programmed to go bald more rapidly. Men who have better adapted repair functions of their follicles would be more resistant to androgenic damage as well.

All of these processes would likely be linked. Much of male pattern baldness seems to be mediated by feedback loops.

So in this model you can see feedback between:

- Galeal tension --> Mechanical stress on hair follicles --> Androgen upregulation --> Scalp muscle hypertrophy --> More galeal tension
- Galeal tension --> Mechanical stress on hair follicles --> Androgen upregulation --> Subcutaneous fat atrophy --> More stress transmission to hair follicles

These two feedback loops may reach a "tipping point" at a certain stage of life for each man, and each area of the scalp. The difference between one man and another in terms of how strongly these feedback loops operate and how resilient the natural hairs are to avoid miniaturizing in this context would be genetic factors beyond our control.

In the context of feedback loops, hair loss would therefore be expected to follow a sigmoidal curve, where the rate of balding is virtually zero at the beginning of life, then reaches a point where it rises exponentially (as the feedback loops reach the "tipping point" where they overwhelm repair mechanisms), and then lastly a stable rate of balding, where the feedback loops are operating at maximum capacity until baldness is complete.

Such a curve would look something like this:

balding.png

For reference, that graph was adapted from here, and incidentally, it models a bacterial growth rate. These types of curves are common in nature.

I don't like to say too much personal about myself, but the main reason I've been able to post so much the past few weeks is I was off work for my hair surgery, and hair has been the only thing on my mind. I have an obsessive personality, so when I start focusing on something (like hair) it becomes consuming. That can be good because I can get a lot done and dive deeply into an area of interest. But it means I need to prioritize where I put my attention as well. I stopped posting here for a few months for that reason. As much as I like it here, and enjoy the community, it will therefore likely become necessary for me to do the same again soon.

I have also reached a point where I feel I am no longer so curious or concerned about the balding process. I feel I have sufficient answers that my curiosity has been sated. I have additionally found numerous treatments that seem to be working for me, and I have more already lined up to try next (eg. equol, genistein), so my hair anxiety is settling. At a certain point, I will again need to focus on other areas of life.

I hope all this has been interesting. I have found it interesting myself, and I think in the long run, the science will confirm much of this to be correct.
 

Mike Tyson

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Does this explain traction alopecia as well? Or is that purely a function of mechanical tension?
 

IdealForehead

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Please share this info. Thanks.
Finasteride, dutasteride, and RU all failed for me. So I had to be more creative. Some of my history of hair loss and treatments I've tried is here:
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...than-enzalutamide.105402/page-24#post-1610020

I have had great success over the past 6 months with a custom topical mix I am making of:

- Darolutamide 0.2%
- Niacinamide 5%
- Desloratadine 1%

Usually mixed into a base of Kirkland minoxidil 5%, or since I have cut out minoxidil for the past month, in a base of 50% propanediol, 30% ethanol, 20% water.

I have found oral minoxidil helpful also but cut that out for the past month also. I have been using a bit of estriol cream (this one) at the corners and hairline for around 2 months and plan to add genistein and possibly equol to my solution next.
 

Iah11

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Another couple of questions I'd ask proponents of this theory:

There are aponeuroses on the back and abdomen. Why would they not also lose hair in androgenetic alopecia under this theory?

Why do women with Androgenetic Alopecia, with the same galea, bald in different patterns?

Also, the sigmoidal graph of hair loss rate is pure pseudoscience. Hair loss rate follows a sigmoidal pattern? What? Ask anyone whos lost hair, the rates vary, with periods of less shedding and more shedding. It would not reflect that curve.
 

Saulus

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I would love to see more research into Botox and hairloss. In January, I contacted Brian Freund, one of the researchers who did the Botox study, to find out if there were plans for expanding the study's parameters (number of patients, number of injections, duration). He told me that no further research could be done, not because there weren't results worth further investigation, but because the cost of these small studies have gone up significantly in costs due to increased regulations. I believe that the study was financed through the NIH and not the makers of Botox.


u should contact the makers of botox and suggest them to finance a study
 

Saulus

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this would also explain why minoxidil better works at the vertex but not so much at the corners...
 

PeggyPeterson

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I hope all this has been interesting. I have found it interesting myself, and I think in the long run, the science will confirm much of this to be correct.

Thanks for your contribution IdealForehead, its been a pleasure to read, and hopefully you could continue contributing every now and again.

If this theory you’ve mentioned does turn out to be true, I’m interested to hear your thoughts on where you see the direction of hair loss treatments... and possibly cure?
 

H

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Wouldn't this make ol' Tsuj's concept null? Any hair you place there is going to be altered by the area anyway so the concept of just dht resistance wont work long term.
 

sunchyme1

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@IdealForehead don't leave us you f****r!!

You are our saviour!

We are all doomed for a pitiful bald existence without you man

You can cure baldness and become ultra rich and spend the rest of your days deep in sugar daddy pussy

That's the life bro

This is your calling
 

Deadpool778899

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This guy idealforehead is a scam he has a site he tries there too to sell his galea theory so that he can sell his book to you
 

Deadpool778899

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His site is perfecthairhealth.com
And even there he tries to connect every single f*****g thing with the galea theory its so obvious tha he tries to sell his f*****g book
If your so good and you feel our pain just put it in the internet for free download b**ch
 

IdealForehead

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This guy idealforehead is a scam he has a site he tries there too to sell his galea theory so that he can sell his book to you

Hahahaha. I have a book now? Lol. Nope.

You're talking about the guy who wrote the review article Rob. That article for your information is just a review article. He was not involved in any principle research that has led to this theory's development and I am most certainly not Rob. If you read Rob's article you will see I have different opinions on the nature of how the galeal programming works. I believe it is more of a developmental process. Additionally of you review my estrogen threads, I believe I have a much better and more developed explanation for how estrogen controls hair growth than he does.

Wouldn't this make ol' Tsuj's concept null? Any hair you place there is going to be altered by the area anyway so the concept of just dht resistance wont work long term.

Re-read my post and some of the replies. DHT resistance may be essentially permanent as a result of developmental programming. Or it might not. Without decades long human transplant studies we don't know for sure. But likely the hair would last at least decades which is a good and useful outcome.

The biggest problems with Tsuji might be if your density is limited to transplant levels which are around 50% normal density and this does not create a truly natural result. See:
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...o-i-need-to-avoid-such-a-result.109874/page-2

Furthermore there is the risk of cancerous transformation with manipulation of stem cells as reviewed in the thread.

Another couple of questions I'd ask proponents of this theory:

There are aponeuroses on the back and abdomen. Why would they not also lose hair in androgenetic alopecia under this theory?

Why do women with Androgenetic Alopecia, with the same galea, bald in different patterns?

Also, the sigmoidal graph of hair loss rate is pure pseudoscience. Hair loss rate follows a sigmoidal pattern? What? Ask anyone whos lost hair, the rates vary, with periods of less shedding and more shedding. It would not reflect that curve.
First of all, if you actually read the post you're replying to you'll see I wrote an entire section on female pattern baldness and why it differs. I cannot reply to every person who does not actually read the thread as I am just repeating myself.

Second my perspective that over a life time balding rates would on average start at zero, exponentially kick in when balding overwhelms the protective hair functions, and level off at a maximum rate is solely conjecture. I am aware of no balding rate studies over the span of life. Either way, this has nothing to do with the principle of galeal tension programming androgen sensitivity.

I am not sure how body hair works as I have not studied it. I am not concerned with my body hair. Body hair seems almost completely different from all the hair on our head in terms of growth cycles (length), texture, age of development, and that androgens directly stimulate it to grow rather than recede. In these respects, it is very different from the hair on our heads for our entire lives. Whereas the hair on our heads only differentiates into visibly different balding vs non balding hair once the balding process kicks in. Ie. All the hair on our head looks the same until balding starts.

This theory would suggest body and head hair are two very different skin organs with distinct developmental pathways and thus differing responses to stress and androgens altogether. Whereas head hair represents the same organ all over the head which just receives slightly differently epigenetic programming during development from the galeal tension it develops under.
 
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inmyhead

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Hahahaha. I have a book now? Lol. Nope.

You're talking about the guy who wrote the review article Rob. That article for your information is just a review article. He was not involved in any principle research that has led to this theory's development and I am most certainly not Rob. If you read Rob's article you will see I have different opinions on the nature of how the galeal programming works. I believe it is more of a developmental process. Additionally of you review my estrogen threads, I believe I have a much better and more developed explanation for how estrogen controls hair growth than he does.



Re-read my post and some of the replies. DHT resistance may be essentially permanent as a result of developmental programming. Or it might not. Without decades long human transplant studies we don't know for sure. But likely the hair would last at least decades which is a good and useful outcome.

The biggest problem with Tsuji is that your density will be limited to transplant levels which are around 50% normal density and this does not create a truly natural result. See:
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...o-i-need-to-avoid-such-a-result.109874/page-2

Furthermore there is the risk of cancerous transformation with manipulation of stem cells as reviewed in the thread.


First of all, if you actually read the post you're replying to you'll see I wrote an entire section on female pattern baldness and why it differs. I cannot reply to every person who does not actually read the thread as I am just repeating myself.

Second my perspective that over a life time balding rates would on average start at zero, exponentially kick in when balding overwhelms the protective hair functions, and level off at a maximum rate is solely conjecture. I am aware of no balding rate studies over the span of life. Either way, this has nothing to do with the principle of galeal tension programming androgen sensitivity.

I am not sure how body hair works as I have not studied it. I have no interest, as I am not concerned with my body hair. But body hair seems almost completely different from all the hair on our head in terms of growth cycles (length), texture, age of development, and that androgens directly stimulate it to grow rather than recede. In these respects, it is very different from the hair on our heads for our entire lives. Whereas the hair on our heads only differentiates into visibly different balding vs non balding hair once the balding process kicks in. Ie. All the hair on our head looks the same until balding starts.

This theory would suggest body and head hair are two very different skin organs with distinct developmental pathways and thus differing responses to stress and androgens altogether. Whereas head hair represents the same organ all over the head which just receives slightly differently epigenetic programming during development from the galeal tension it develops under.

Where did you get that info from? Because Tsuji stated that they will be able to control density.
 

Armando Jose

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1) Subcutaneous fat under the skin of the scalp acts as a cushion for the skin, and it atrophies with age. As it atrophies, the stress the galea exerts on the hair follicles will increase. As the stress increases, androgen sensitivity and expression increase until eventually it overwhelms the natural follicular repair mechanisms. Once your reach that point, male pattern baldness begins to manifest. Additionally, increased androgens can provoke further fat atrophy creating a feedback loop.
Is this the explanation of people in the teens having common hair loss? Clearly don't in my opinion because age is the main factor.

Why do women with Androgenetic Alopecia, with the same galea, bald in different patterns?
Very good question ;)
 
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