Which Hairloss Theory Do You Believe?

Which hairloss theory do you believe???

  • Gravity theory that postulates that scalps weight causes baldness

    Votes: 3 3.6%
  • DHT theory which postulates that hair on balding scalp are genetically sensitive to DHT .

    Votes: 57 67.9%
  • Tight galea theory says that muscle tension causes tight galea and male pattern baldness

    Votes: 20 23.8%
  • Skull expansion theory which States that skull expansion causes baldness.

    Votes: 4 4.8%

  • Total voters
    84

kiwipilu

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Well ok I don't know about that to be fair but I do know that being NW7 in itself does not mean your scalp is too calcified or whatever to regrow

of course I see what you mean. when we talk about norwood there can be misunderstandings.
norwood 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 are just pattern of hairloss you can have hair all over the scalp(either thinned hairs, or just a lack of density) and be a norwood 7 pattern for both. What I'm talking about is difference between slick bald area or not.
 
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BalderBaldyBald

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Calcification appears on very long term Androgenetic Alopecia scalps (+30-40 years of slick bald) and is very limited, you can find studies on it.

Also, more blood flow = more DHT, scalp arteries ligature was tried and gave result by causing a lower blood flow and hypoxia.Thing is, you can practically find all kind of hypothesis and their respective counters, Androgenetic Alopecia is madness.

N°1 as of today is still DHT, and was for 20 years, but i won't be surprised by a debunk one of those years
 

ThinningPatience

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For me, the most aggressive episode of shedding coincided with mad itch all over the top. My scalp was red and burning, and my libido was less than it would be on a normal day. I am not sure about those theories, but I can testify in favor of the inflammatory part.
 

Mandar kumthekar

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Yes, I do agree that genes play an important role. But let's say, we put a perfectly healthy polar bear in the Sahara desert. The polar bear will suffer, and he doesn't have "bad genes". Even in the arctic, if you force the bear to take 3-hour hot baths everyday he will have health problems. It is just the behaviour, the environment.

The thing is, humans have different genetics. What may be a good behaviour-environment to one, may not be a good one to the other. So I believe it is environmental or "bad behaviours".
Your example of polar bear is extreme example. There are millions of people ,relatives/brothers living under one roof ,eating same thing,living in same town country ,eating same doing same. Some starts to go bald or bald while others don't.why does the same or not so different environment and behavior have varied impact on people.
So if environment and behavior ,diet,temperature,stress are constant or near constant for everyone then there is only one variable, that is "genetics". That's why genetic study and engineering has been a hot topic of the town for last two decades.
 

Erensar

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Any experience ?
I started licl 1 month ago (low dose to keep it safe) . Let's see what it does. ..

LiCl and VPA help but they are not strong enough.

I have seen a good number of great Cyclosporine A results and I believe it is due to SFRP-1 inhibition and not immunosurpressive qualities. Boosting WNT by disrupting of CXXC5-Dvl, SFRP-1 and DKK-1 inhibition is the future.
 

InBeforeTheCure

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Which theory of infectious disease do you believe???
- the miasma theory of disease that postulates that "bad air" causes infectious diseases
- the germ theory of disease which postulates that infectious diseases are caused by microorganisms
- the demon theory of disease that says infectious diseases are caused by demons
- the Chi theory of disease which states that diseases are caused by an imbalance in Chi energy
 

kiwipilu

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LiCl and VPA help but they are not strong enough.

I have seen a good number of great Cyclosporine A results and I believe it is due to SFRP-1 inhibition and not immunosurpressive qualities. Boosting WNT by disrupting of CXXC5-Dvl, SFRP-1 and DKK-1 inhibition is the future.

ye there wan older study for cyclo showing 1 case in picture but that's quite a drug (see safety profile). where have you seen results?you talk about RT1640?
tbh I can't wait to hear more news about WAY 316606 and like you say PTD-DBM but there are people here that made a groupbuy of the stuff..
 

Erensar

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ye there wan older study for cyclo showing 1 case in picture but that's quite a drug (see safety profile). where have you seen results?you talk about RT1640?
tbh I can't wait to hear more news about WAY 316606 and like you say PTD-DBM but there are people here that made a groupbuy of the stuff..

There are more studies than the famous one from 1990 with incredible crown regrowth and other successul results. They may not be specifically for Androgenetic Alopecia but Cyclosporine A like minoxidil works on all types of hairloss. Additionally I have seen regrowth on Cyclosporine in person on cancer patients and after organ transplants. They had classic pattern baldness and regrew hair that have not been seen in decades. RT1640 sounds promising as well. One more remark is needed here - CSA works better orally than topically - the same is true for a lot of drugs: minoxidil, seti, finasteride, dutasteride, spironolactone, cypro but for example not for VPA.

I cannot wait to get my hands on PTD-DBM and WAY-316606. The latter I may try orally as it is not immunosurpressant. DBM is a peptide so it is the best to inject it or use Choi's method: PTD to increase penetration + microneedling before every application.
 

Mandar kumthekar

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I am feeling anxious just by reading names of these different drugs. I suggest all to use these drugs by only experts advice.our health more worthy than hairs .
 

Heinrich Harrer

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I would like to share my thoughts here both from reading and also personal experience.

First of all, the galea theory is wrong. I have friends who are complete junkies, friends who have heads the size of an alien and they are Norwood zero. Not only that, many of them grow very long hair.

The scalp expanding theory is again wrong for the same reasons. You don’t need studies and idiotic speculations to stir water with no purpose.

The scalp weight theory is also wrong. Head over to old rave parties videos, where people have grotesque posture and choke on mdmas yet maintain a perfect hairline.

The DHT theory is a big one. It is split into many sub theories. I can tell you that I have friends who have taken every anabolic steroid on the market and their hairline is the same. Tons and tons of examples can be found in the fitness world. The same goes for diet, the same goes for sex life etc. To put it in simple terms, there are two categories: those who bald and those who don’t bald. Those who bald try every environmental change in the book and still bald. Those who don’t bald try every sin in the book and still don’t bald. There is also a third category, the people who are not balding but think they are. Those are the reason for misinformation and confusion and this forum has plenty. Those are the ones crying about hair all the time, they try every drug possible and have delusions of maintenance or drug inefficacy.

I am a Norwood 5 at the age of 29. I have lost hair since 16, my hair texture, thickness and strength changed through my teenage years when hormones spiked. I also have hypothyroidism.

I took Finasteride and dutasteride last year. I am a perfect candidate because I am fucked good from his condition and I can testify if the drug works or not. The drug worked wonders. Hair all over the front, tiny resting hairs constantly falling out and being replaced by new strong darker ones. However, it gave me tits. So I discontinued it. I would be a Norwood 2-3 by the end of a single year no doubt.

What do we make of this? That the drug works as intended to people with an actual problem. We also conclude that whatever it may be, dht, tension or another mechanism, it is held partially responsible for the classic androgenic alopecia. People have to realize diet is useless at reversing it. My diet is impeccable and I don’t smoke or drink, I don’t even drink coffee. So yes, the drug works and dht does play a role.

However, it is important to mention that my testosterone levels were small to begin with. Both my LH and FSH are just above the baseline and my total T levels are below medium, however both my shbg and free T levels are GOOD, which means I’m not suffering from anything. My DHT levels were literally in the mid levels. Just keep this in mind.

The consequences from the drug were there. Fat tissue, growing fatty nipples with no lump, relaxation in the muscles, loss of libido and a general feminization. Which only comes to show that the drug works. For the people who keep saying it’s an estrogen value game, don’t. My e2 levels were always on 34, two months later on the drug they were on 27, which is an excellent value. I still grew tits from day 1 though. For the record everything is now reversed upon discontinuation.

The drug also drops your natural progesterone to zero, since it is a synthetic form. Apparently it is what may cause the gyno although it’s more of an androgen issue, the drug pretty much takes you back to your early teens. More on that on a future topic, I promise.

It’s worth mentioning I had regrowth everywhere on my shinny parts of scalp which shows that calcification for a decade doesn’t kill the follicles. I am a believer of that.

So to conclude I think antiandrogens are useless not because they don’t work - they do work to those with an actual problem - but because they alter one’s hormonal profile in scary ways and also permanent ways because the point is to take the drug forever like thyroxine for example.

I want to mention now a term that is very vague, very scary and very powerful. And that term is “stress”. Now stress is chaotic it has many forms and is understood differently by people.

But there is one type of stress that I have seen in every single person I met that has alopecia. That is the sudden, traumatic event stress. Even in movies have you noticed that people who go through such an event early in their lives are shown later in horrible condition AND bald? It’s almost in every movie. Or maybe they want to portray baldness as a bad thing, who knows. The point is that I’ve known lads who lost all their hair suddenly in their mid thirties, from ponytail to nw6 after a loss of a loved one. Classic horeshoe pattern and everything. How do you explain that, since alopecia is supposed to happen earlier? Follicles decided to be sensitive after the loss of the loved one? And if so, WHY and HOW?

It is therefore my belief that two cases can be true: sudden traumatic stress turns on the follicular sensitivity and alopecia OR follicular sensitivity is there and you lose hair from early teen as usual. You can see though that one theory contradicts the other yet both of them happen! How?!

The answer may be the word “inflammation”. So either the follicular predisposition is utter bullshit and alopecia is a 100% inflammation game OR follicular sensitivity to DHT exists since birth but inflammation ALONE is the key to turn it on. That would explain why someone loses hair from 16 and someone else from 45. And inflammation increases with age and health problems which is why many lose hair after their 60s, no? So maybe Finasteride doesn’t really work by blocking DHT but blocks or stops temporarily the INFLAMMATION PROCESS. Now what would that inflammation be?

Take for example the male to female people. Excellent examples of success. What do they block? They block testsosterone, my friends. Not dht, not estrogen, not some other pathway bullshit. They block T and when they block it completely, guess what: full heads of hair. Before someone says: “uff idiot that’s because blocking t blocks dht hello?” I will say this: put an hrt case next to a case of 10mg of avodart ed you will find that the zero T case isn’t even a match, it has won by a landslide against the avodart case. Almost Zero DHT on both, but one case with almost zero T ;)

The problem of alopecia lies with testosterone. Testosterone genetic code, maybe infected testosterone cells? Who knows... but that is where you need to focus! And the people who feel great libido on Finasteride it isn’t because of total T levels. In my opinion it is androgenic sensitivity, number of T versus DHT receptors or maybe some other mechanism but it has nothing to do with T unless you get a blood test that measures total T / SHBG = free T.

The problem lies with testosterone 100% and one of its mechanisms or byproducts that we have yet to discover.
 

arnoldd

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I agree with you the first part but not in the end.

1. Inflammation is bad, maybe can speed up the hair loss process but it isnt the culprit. The f*****g dht is.

2. Why people changing sex have better results than someone that only take avodart ? The same why girls dont lose hairs...Estrogens man! They not only kill testo and dht but they also add estrogens which promotes even more regrowth.
 

Heinrich Harrer

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I agree with you the first part but not in the end.

1. Inflammation is bad, maybe can speed up the hair loss process but it isnt the culprit. The f*****g dht is.

2. Why people changing sex have better results than someone that only take avodart ? The same why girls dont lose hairs...Estrogens man! They not only kill testo and dht but they also add estrogens which promotes even more regrowth.

How do you explain the fact that my estrogen levels were decreased two months in the medication but my hair was growing rapidly everywhere (I am a diffuse case) even on my temples? I promise to you, the situation in the back of my head was completely changed. It’s as if my scalp was sick and it was healing. I want to mention that I have had dermatitis for a few years as well, I believe it started the same years my hair loss or hair change started. It begins with the classic itching and then redness and then oil and then you flake and then you flake and bleed.

During the Finasteride medication and massive regrowth, I CONTINUED TO HAVE dermatitis and had very bad incidents of it! So whatever causes dermatitis isn’t what caused hair loss. Here is a point I make for inflammation that goes to agree with you even to state that inflammation is completely irrelevant. You may also see people who scratch their heads or have dermatitis but no hair loss (especially women). But I used inflammation as part of that big post to go from piece to piece and finally reach to an outcome.

I am confident that the problem is testosterone. It has to be something that the medication was altering or the medication may even be partially altering something and that is why it’s not completely efficient or doesn’t work for some people. Finasteride and dutasteride both block testosterone partially as an end result so there is your answer. Now some people may be resistant so the medication won’t do much.

Like I said, it can be some sort of infection or mechanism that people have but definitely it is something that can be turned on manually not by default, otherwise we would all be losing hair the same. There are cases of people who lost hair initially and then in their mid twenties it stopped and they have a nice nw3 healthy state.

I think the galea part can be part of the situation and determine the shape and size of problem but definitely doesn’t cause it in the first place. So you have galea, inflammation and life habits that can determine the speed and space of the affected area, yes. But the switch that turns this whole thing off is definitely something else. Otherwise how do we explain that we don’t lose hair from 13? Hormones are crazy there, dht through the roof. Testosterone also through the roof. Perhaps the problem does start from 13 and takes time to unfold? What about people who lose all hair everywhere in scalp? It’s confusing.

I do believe though that the reason for all hair loss is one. It isn’t two or ten or a thousand, it’s just one. Much like all diseases manifest in the beginning due to a certain reason and then may take many different paths shapes and forms, the same way alopecia does.

Don’t expect a cure for another 200 years maybe. This is way too complicated. Only cure for our lifetime will be bigger donor and some transplant improvements such as punch size, survival rate and so on.
 

fuDHTck

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I would like to share my thoughts here both from reading and also personal experience.

First of all, the galea theory is wrong. I have friends who are complete junkies, friends who have heads the size of an alien and they are Norwood zero. Not only that, many of them grow very long hair.

The scalp expanding theory is again wrong for the same reasons. You don’t need studies and idiotic speculations to stir water with no purpose.

The scalp weight theory is also wrong. Head over to old rave parties videos, where people have grotesque posture and choke on mdmas yet maintain a perfect hairline.

The DHT theory is a big one. It is split into many sub theories. I can tell you that I have friends who have taken every anabolic steroid on the market and their hairline is the same. Tons and tons of examples can be found in the fitness world. The same goes for diet, the same goes for sex life etc. To put it in simple terms, there are two categories: those who bald and those who don’t bald. Those who bald try every environmental change in the book and still bald. Those who don’t bald try every sin in the book and still don’t bald. There is also a third category, the people who are not balding but think they are. Those are the reason for misinformation and confusion and this forum has plenty. Those are the ones crying about hair all the time, they try every drug possible and have delusions of maintenance or drug inefficacy.

I am a Norwood 5 at the age of 29. I have lost hair since 16, my hair texture, thickness and strength changed through my teenage years when hormones spiked. I also have hypothyroidism.

I took Finasteride and dutasteride last year. I am a perfect candidate because I am fucked good from his condition and I can testify if the drug works or not. The drug worked wonders. Hair all over the front, tiny resting hairs constantly falling out and being replaced by new strong darker ones. However, it gave me tits. So I discontinued it. I would be a Norwood 2-3 by the end of a single year no doubt.

What do we make of this? That the drug works as intended to people with an actual problem. We also conclude that whatever it may be, dht, tension or another mechanism, it is held partially responsible for the classic androgenic alopecia. People have to realize diet is useless at reversing it. My diet is impeccable and I don’t smoke or drink, I don’t even drink coffee. So yes, the drug works and dht does play a role.

However, it is important to mention that my testosterone levels were small to begin with. Both my LH and FSH are just above the baseline and my total T levels are below medium, however both my shbg and free T levels are GOOD, which means I’m not suffering from anything. My DHT levels were literally in the mid levels. Just keep this in mind.

The consequences from the drug were there. Fat tissue, growing fatty nipples with no lump, relaxation in the muscles, loss of libido and a general feminization. Which only comes to show that the drug works. For the people who keep saying it’s an estrogen value game, don’t. My e2 levels were always on 34, two months later on the drug they were on 27, which is an excellent value. I still grew tits from day 1 though. For the record everything is now reversed upon discontinuation.

The drug also drops your natural progesterone to zero, since it is a synthetic form. Apparently it is what may cause the gyno although it’s more of an androgen issue, the drug pretty much takes you back to your early teens. More on that on a future topic, I promise.

It’s worth mentioning I had regrowth everywhere on my shinny parts of scalp which shows that calcification for a decade doesn’t kill the follicles. I am a believer of that.

So to conclude I think antiandrogens are useless not because they don’t work - they do work to those with an actual problem - but because they alter one’s hormonal profile in scary ways and also permanent ways because the point is to take the drug forever like thyroxine for example.

I want to mention now a term that is very vague, very scary and very powerful. And that term is “stress”. Now stress is chaotic it has many forms and is understood differently by people.

But there is one type of stress that I have seen in every single person I met that has alopecia. That is the sudden, traumatic event stress. Even in movies have you noticed that people who go through such an event early in their lives are shown later in horrible condition AND bald? It’s almost in every movie. Or maybe they want to portray baldness as a bad thing, who knows. The point is that I’ve known lads who lost all their hair suddenly in their mid thirties, from ponytail to nw6 after a loss of a loved one. Classic horeshoe pattern and everything. How do you explain that, since alopecia is supposed to happen earlier? Follicles decided to be sensitive after the loss of the loved one? And if so, WHY and HOW?

It is therefore my belief that two cases can be true: sudden traumatic stress turns on the follicular sensitivity and alopecia OR follicular sensitivity is there and you lose hair from early teen as usual. You can see though that one theory contradicts the other yet both of them happen! How?!

The answer may be the word “inflammation”. So either the follicular predisposition is utter bullshit and alopecia is a 100% inflammation game OR follicular sensitivity to DHT exists since birth but inflammation ALONE is the key to turn it on. That would explain why someone loses hair from 16 and someone else from 45. And inflammation increases with age and health problems which is why many lose hair after their 60s, no? So maybe Finasteride doesn’t really work by blocking DHT but blocks or stops temporarily the INFLAMMATION PROCESS. Now what would that inflammation be?

Take for example the male to female people. Excellent examples of success. What do they block? They block testsosterone, my friends. Not dht, not estrogen, not some other pathway bullshit. They block T and when they block it completely, guess what: full heads of hair. Before someone says: “uff idiot that’s because blocking t blocks dht hello?” I will say this: put an hrt case next to a case of 10mg of avodart ed you will find that the zero T case isn’t even a match, it has won by a landslide against the avodart case. Almost Zero DHT on both, but one case with almost zero T ;)

The problem of alopecia lies with testosterone. Testosterone genetic code, maybe infected testosterone cells? Who knows... but that is where you need to focus! And the people who feel great libido on Finasteride it isn’t because of total T levels. In my opinion it is androgenic sensitivity, number of T versus DHT receptors or maybe some other mechanism but it has nothing to do with T unless you get a blood test that measures total T / SHBG = free T.

The problem lies with testosterone 100% and one of its mechanisms or byproducts that we have yet to discover.

[citation needed]
 

Heinrich Harrer

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[citation needed]

This comment is rude friend. We pour our knowledge and experience through the years here and you quote me with this? I’d have to lose my entire weekend to link stuff to you that YOU yourself can look up with a simple google or forum search.


Anyways as I was saying... my belief is that testosterone is the main guilty area but the deep root of the problem is yet to be identified. I monitor my scalp for years and I find it funny that my dermatitis has a mind of its own. It doesn’t take sh*t from Nizoral, Stieprox, bunch of other antifungal shampoos, Dactarin powder, you name it. The only thing that clears my scalp entirely and keeps it that way is the sea. I live in a country with a lot of sea and every summer I take many trips there and swim every day. A kilo of ketokozanole does nothing yet swimming in the sea ED clears everything and keeps the scalp healthy.

Something is clearly missing here. Most of us fight on two fronts: one for alopecia one for inflammation. I have noticed many of my friends from school that were on similar situation as me have kept their hair a lot better because they didn’t develop dermatitis. Fact.

So it’s safe to say the following things!

A. The galea formation determines the entire area that can be affected but the amount of it that ends bald varies from person to person because of many reasons, such as the speed with which you lose ground, but ultimately we all end up the same in very old age.

B. Skin inflammation or dermatitis speeds up the situation and you end up finishing first in the race of who’s the baldest, while someone with similar galea and hair loss keeps most of it by not having dermatitis.

C. The root cause of hair loss is yet to be found. We have medication that partially works and also internal causes for inflammation that are also not found and are fought externally with lotions and shampoos (big mistake).

Perhaps if studies were done on men with alopecia on their adrenal glands or some other deeper areas rather than their god damn DHT, we’d have some new stuff to present?

This is moronic: teenager has full T and DHT, full head of hair. Enters 18, starts losing hair and itching. Continues to lose hair, as his testosterone and consequently DHT declines. Continues to lose hair in phases until his 45th year of age usually, again as his Testosterone and DHT levels decline. Continues to lose any hair left after 60, in old age, when his T and DHT are below borderline. All that while he’s becoming estrogen dominant. Does that make any sense to you?

Middle aged man has long healthy hair. His family member dies, he loses his hair within a year, clear alopecia pattern and no regrowth. Stabilizes in his 40s, as a nw6. Spent 20 years having a ponytail now he’s bald. Makes any sense to you? Is that normal for the theory of “dht sensitive follicles as a hereditary situation”?

So it’s safer to state it like this: sensitive or not, the predisposition exists by manifests only through certain events that clearly can occur at ANY age, or NOT AT ALL. Which means someone that can be bald, won’t be bald if he doesn’t trigger it.

We also know from clear life examples that it’s safe to assume we are split into sensitive and non sensitive people, but maybe that’s bullshit. Maybe we all are sensitive by some don’t manifest. Can be a protein missing? Can be a protein present? Some dna pattern? It can’t be some area that is different for 7 billion people, such as how body works or the adrenals or the kidneys or or or. It must be a very small thing too because science hasn’t found it yet but they search deep in our structure for decades (for other purposes too).

And another thing: since you all ask citations, I want to ask one too. Link me the name of the enzyme or gene that causes the follicular sensitivity to DHT, which must be an old study too since they feed us this story for decades. Where is it? Nowhere. Just some retarded mice studies and some anecdotal speculations. For the record the reason everyone does mice studies is not to piss you off but it’s because we share 97% of same DNA. So don’t think that a mice study means nothing, it means a lot.

So. It’s not T. It’s not DHT. It’s not Estrogen. At least not by themselves. Or maybe at all. But we know through medication that eliminating the first two or basically the first one and increasing the third DOES produce hair regrowth! But MAYBE that is the nuclear option? Maybe the root cause is much smaller and it gets blocked or killed when someone decides to go MTF? Hmmm.
 

Heinrich Harrer

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And there we go, more proof!

Alas, I think I am in the 0.01% of men for whom hair loss is rooted in the DNA whatever the external stimulus (DHT).
My father was NW7 at 35 and NW8 at 50.
I am now taking finasteride to preserve the transplanted hair; however, for the "original" hair, these products were practically useless:
- finasteride (even 1.5 mg)
- minoxidil
- RU

Which means there must be a dna structure or some protein or even some Testosterone environment / characteristic that is behind alopecia. And it is the same for many people, tons of people lose ground while on strong medication that kills DHT. Which means antiandrogens are useless in the long run and it’s proof they target a secondary situation that isn’t the root cause which is why they stop working.

And like I said before, many people don’t bald. Many think they bald but they just lose some frontal ground because their hairline is maturing. So its not Finasteride that keeps heir hair, it’s the fact that there is nothing to make them fall. Examples are MANY of my friends and I’m sure you have PLENTY similar examples too! Fact! This is a damn fact, it’s no joke.

So for me as a NW5, sewing regrowth everywhere on medication clearly killed or blocked something but for how long? And was it really the root cause? No. Whatever it is, you need to block it entirely (MTF CASES) and permanently. There is a guy here I read about who explores the hormonal route he said. He did MTF drug use and he became full head of hair but no full temples as he wants BECAUSE that’s where his hairline has matured, it’s supposed to be there. So he has achieved 100% success, not 75 or 50. So we know whatever it is one does in MTF cases is making the trick. But like I said, it doesn’t cure. It just nuclear blocks. So when you come off the MTF drugs, book hair loss is back and alopecia is back.

Whatever the cure is, it lies on the DNA and it is the same for every living soul. Mark my words.
 
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