Which Density Do I Need To Avoid Such A Result.. | Page 2 | HairLossTalk Forums

Which Density Do I Need To Avoid Such A Result..

Discussion in 'Hair Transplants Information - General Discussions' started by Saulus, Nov 18, 2017.

  1. subterfuge

    subterfuge Member

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    Does the max amount of hairs per CM after a transplant include existing hair?
    I'm kinda confused about this.
    I keep reading that hair transplants will only give like 40 hairs per cm. (lets use this number for the benefit of my question)
    I have some very thin areas that I assume have like 25 hairs per cm.
    Will a transplant be able to give me an EXTRA 40 hairs per cm (so 65hairs per cm overall) or only an extra 15 hairs per cm, leading to the 'max of 40 hairs per cm?'
     
  2. meangreen

    meangreen New Member My Regimen

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    Most surgeons will add up to an additional 40 grafts per cm2 for each surgery and still call that dense packing, while some will do up to 50-60 per surgery. Your final density would be this addition plus whatever you had before, whether transplanted or native. You can have additional transplants to reach up to your native density of 80 to 100 grafts per cm2. However, most people only need 40 to 50 grafts per cm2 final density to achieve a good cosmetic outcome, but likely 60 to 70 with fine hair. I will try to find 2 blog posts by top surgeons that explain this and link them here.

    Also, 40 seems to be the gold standard to achieve 92% fue graft survival rate, while with 50-60 this rate may go down to 80 something, which begs the question of 'is it better to have only a single surgery and use up more donor hair or two surgeries that preserves it a little better?' There is also some research about this and hopefully I can also dig up and post this study as well.

    The original picture looks like my result at 40 per cm2. We have exactly the same hair type, texture, and color almost. This result is actually very common for the first pass if you have fine hair. Under better lighting this result could appear much better.

    So to answer the original question by OP, I would say you would need 60 to 70 grafts per cm2 to avoid this result, but chances are it will take 2 surgeries.

    Sources:

    https://www.rahalhairtransplant.com/many-grafts-need-full-head-hair/
    The 50% rule gives me a baseline… I know that I need to transplant above 40 grafts cm/2 (roughly) to create the illusion of a fuller, thicker head of hair.

    Though I find that 50-70 grafts cm/2 achieves maximum fullness & density… so you can style your hair as you wish — long, short, parted, or “messy”.


    http://shapiromedical.com/learning-center/understanding-density-2/
    Another concept that is important to understand is the concept of “social observation” vs. “critical observation”. A hair transplant that achieves a density of 40-50 FU/cm2 will achieve social fullness, which means that the patient will look full most social situation. This includes casual observation from across the room to about a foot away. It is not meant to eliminate the ability to see any scalp under all“critical” observations which mean very close up, orparted. If one critically examines the scalp of people without hair loss, some scalp can be often seen.Patients who agonize about never seeing any scalp under any situation have unrealistic expectations about the purpose of hair transplants and will never be satisfied. A patient can be made to look full under most situations… but the scalp can be found under critical close up observation
     
    #22 meangreen, Dec 13, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
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  3. Wolf Pack

    Wolf Pack Moderator My Regimen
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    I had 50 grafts per cm2 at the insistence of the surgeon with thick calibre hair. Came out nice. With a skilled surgeon, this shouldn't translate to lower survival of grafts. The problem is more to do with fibrosis and impaired blood supply in recipient area due to balding - this happens to some baldites irrespective of the number of grafts per cm2. It's a real problem.
     
  4. Saulus

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    Does that mean even if we manage to clone hairfolicles and get an unlimited supply of donor hair were still fucked?
     
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  5. Wolf Pack

    Wolf Pack Moderator My Regimen
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    In the first post, the guy has almost slicked his hair up which is a no no for some people post transplant.



    As we all know this is one of the hardest styles to pull off for balding guys but also the holy grail! The slicked back look! Even with 5,500 grafts I can bet with a birds eye in lighting, it's see through, even with that reasonable hair calibre.

    I think that's why many transplants will result in the recipient showing a layered side parting or combing it all down. In real life it's pretty sub par.

    For those of us with limited loss and hair thickness, we can still pull this slick back style off, but it seems it's off the cards for most.
     
  6. meangreen

    meangreen New Member My Regimen

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    Thanks for some video evidence. I think this further supports the quotes I posted above and provides a realistic expectation to people. In other words, the original images from OP are actually normal results, unfortunately. It can be improved upon with more density and more procedures, but it will likely never be perfect and you will need to style your hair accordingly. It is the sad truth.
     
  7. Saulus

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    What haircut can you even wear with a hair transplant?

    Buzzcut is also off the table

    Tyga_Weave2.jpg
     
  8. meangreen

    meangreen New Member My Regimen

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    If you are going to cherry pick photos under direct sunlight that a normal person wouldn't even recognize as looking bad, then you are in for a bad time overall and you might not be a good candidate for a hair transplant for having such pessimistic expectations.

    Also, so you know, that guy (tyga?) and other people naturally have their hair look like that in sunlight. It does not mean he had a transplant.

    But to answer your question, medium length with the hair pushed forward and to the side as opposed to up and back like the dudes from OP's origonal photos.
     
  9. Saulus

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  10. meangreen

    meangreen New Member My Regimen

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    Good work detective, but it still doesn't invalidate the points made on this thread. Make sure you don't keep balding and get 2 transplants in the same area and you can look better than your cherry picked photos, if that is what you are trying to avoid.
     
  11. Saulus

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    This is brutal

     
  12. meangreen

    meangreen New Member My Regimen

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    So are you trying to have a serious discussion or just trying to further validate your own opinion that hair transplants suck? Again, that video shows a normal result, but I wouldn't call it brutal. He can fly to Turkey again for a second pass if he maintains his existing hair.

    If you can't accept it, I guess it's over for you then boyo.
     
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  13. Saulus

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    image-http-3a-2f-2fwww-101greatgoals-com-2fwp-content-2fuploads-2f2014-2f10-2fhairtransplant-jpg.jpg



    09372036-84d1-4f43-98e7-73fe76fda9d0-png-png.png



    when you get an hair transplant and it starts raining
     
  14. BootyWarrior

    BootyWarrior Established Member My Regimen

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    Saulus I enjoy your reading your threads. They are always depressing in a funny way. You might even be my favourite poster in these forums. But you are wrong this time. Even though they had mediocre results, I'm sure they still look better than they do pre op. All they need are little touch ups. 1k grafts more to their hairlines and they will all look perfect. While balding people would look like shit rest of their miserable lives.
     
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  15. shookwun

    shookwun Senior Member

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    very common.

    Even after my first procedure when I tilted my head back it was like you could see a bald head despite me having my entire frontal third transplanted. I could see a hairline outline yet I looked bald in and around the transplanted area. As for the pictures you provided, additional work is the only way around this outcome. Some of these individuals did not have good transplants. meaning the doctors were using the wrong graft selection at the hairline which gave this see-through pluggy appearance.


    But I would like to confirm that these doctors will promise you the world, but it wont change anything. An area such as the hairline will require indefinitely additional work. Some people are able to get away with one pass, but most will almost always need an additional transplant over the surrounding area.


    biggest issue you will find is wrong grafts being implanted at the hairline. Improper devises being used during dissection, and graft separation. In order for the hairline to look natural it must be almost all single hair grafts, yet doctors are implanting doubles which gives that pluggy grown out look, instead of a feathered hair line. Again, doctors not providing the right tools to there staff with high magnification, which would eliminate this entirely. When you put a 2 hair graft t the hairline, you will have a pluggy look.
     
    #35 shookwun, Apr 17, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  16. Susanoo

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    The pic of tyga is a terrible example. His hair is under natural sunlight and wet lmao.

    His hair also isn't even buzzed, the transplanted area is noticeable but in terms of his actual hair length that's like 3-4 weeks of growth from a buzzcut which makes a huge difference. His length in that pic is like the worse stage for people with transplants; grown out and it would blend way better. His hair doesn't have full curls at that length leaves for a soft diffuse look
     
  17. BootyWarrior

    BootyWarrior Established Member My Regimen

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    Calling Tyga's hair transplant a failure is beyond me lmao. That photo is indeed a terrible example. I'm sure he wasn't even on 1 year mark at that time hence there was still some redness on his scalp. I mean come on motherfucker had a five head but now can sport cornrows lmao.

    tyga.png

    marvelous-here-s-how-tyga-feels-about-blac-chyna-and-rob-kardashian-s-beef-of-tyga-new-hairstyle.jpg

    4bfe4cf8-7a5a-42ef-9aed-7fdc60a2a72d.jpg
     
  18. Saulus

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  19. Saulus

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  20. Djshakes

    Djshakes New Member

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    Reading threads like this makes me nervous as I have a transplant schedule for Sept. I was thinking about taking in 10-12 hi-def pictures and just ask the doctor what he expects the outcomes to be. If he says the first picture I will walk as I'm not paying $18K for that. I'll lose my deposit, I don't care. The guy in the adidas jacket I could live with. A little thin in front but I'm 43, it's to be expected.
     

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