When you star losing your sanity... minoxidil and Dutasteride

Curly82

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When you star losing your sanity... minoxidil and Dutasteride (30)

I suppose it's a good time to start recording my case.

Baldness is a family trait, it simply runs in the blood. On my father's line, they are hair survivalists. The grandfather had clean temples at 40, and today at 90 he still keeps the same hair. His two sons are similar. At 50 one of them gets to keep almost all the hair and my father is fighting with major thinning and bald spots, but overall ok.
What frightens me is my mother's genetics: From my maternal grandfather to my cousins, they all were plagued with early alopecia, all of them bald before reaching 20 years old. When they were 16 all of them were already Norwood III.


So, here starts my story. I'm currently 30, and started to take my hair more seriously some months ago. At twenty I started having reccession on my temples, but otherwise it was ok. My younger brother was not so lucky. Before 20 he was already fighting it with minoxidil for years, and now he is getting close to only half a covered head left. With gigantic temples, he resorted to a Mohawk, almost Mr.T style.
As for me, I tried some snake oil products, but nothing special. Two years ago I started noticing the thinning on my top, and sides getting bigger, so I jumped on the minoxidil wagon. Although it proved to be a big case of "You are doing it wrong", so nothing happened.

Fast Forward to June. I'm getting more and more depressed about my hair. I keep telling my barber to leave enough lenght for covering the temples, but I'm scared. Every time I clean the bathroom, my room, the pillow... There is hair everywhere. I'm having a bad case of miniaturization next to the temples. I can't take it anymore, and decide to actively counter it.
So I set a date with a dermatologist for getting DHT blockers, and in the meantime I check what I was missing with the minoxidil.

In the middle of September I started with dutasteride, 0.5 mg daily, and continued with 5% minoxidil twice per day. I started taking the photos every 15 days. Checking the first one, there was already tiny hairs on the temples and hairline that did not match the lenght from my last haircut, but it's hard to tell if it is new hair or wishful thinking.

At the first month mark, shedding started, and boy, did it hurt (mentally speaking). I think my scalp looks worse now, specially when I have not combed my hair and it groups itself on the center of the head. I think is finally slowing, but at least there is not so many hairs on my pillow. Funny thing is that I had never lost hair on my back and sides, and now I can put my hand there and end with one or two hairs between my fingers.

I have a lot of photos, but I suck at always getting the same exact angle. This is what I can offer for now:


I think it can't be appreciated very well on the camera. The first photo is from two months ago, and the last one from this sunday. I'm not sure, but I think the hairline is where it is working better. Looking at the mirror, I can see lots of new hairs, really spiky. Can't say the same for the temples. They are filling with vellus style hair, but too thin and puny to be usable. Still, my hairline is starting to get more visible on the corners, like a bear shadow.
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Initial Status:
- Norwood II close to a III
- Damaged hairline
- Receeded temples
- Miniaturization near the temples
- male pattern baldness thinning on the top of the scalp, loss of volume
- Considerable hair loss
- Massive Depression and Anxiety
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Regime:
July 2012: Improved application of Minoxidil 5 % (Regaxidil), two applications per day
September 2012: Added Dutasteride 0.5 mg daily
November 2012: Added Keto shampoo, 2 applications per week.
December 2012: Oral Spironolactone 100 mg daily on two 50 mg doses (Not for hair loss)


If somebody is going to ask about if I am crazy or the dreaded side effects... Nothing. It's an even longer story I can't talk about now.


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01/12/2012 - 2.5 months
This is my current status:




I keep getting tiny hairs on the hairline, but shedding is in overdrive mode since two weeks ago, long and small hairs the same. Overall, my scalp's amount of hair has worsened, and I can see a nice white line of clean scalp when combing. It looks like I am getting closer to a Zinedine Zidane Style of hair loss, with the front area separated from the rest. My anxiety is also to heightened and with all sort of depression and crisis.


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16/12/2012:
Not a lot going on. Three months on the trip. After the initial "oh my good new hair" things are pretty much the same. I think the shedding has stopped, but I keep the same degree of hair loss as before.

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http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interac...-Dutasteride?p=1119267&viewfull=1#post1119267
17/02/2013:
February update. Back to square one after suffering hair loss side effects from another drug.

 
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Curly82

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Thanks. I really don't know what happened with the thread after editing it to add img tags.


So, this weekend I have reached the mark of three months. Changes?

- Maybe adittional tiny hairs on the headline
- The temples are starting to show a bit part of the line from two years ago, but little more than fuzz
- The worst shedding stage seems over. Hair loss similar to before starting dutasteride.
- Oil produccion in hair has reduced a lot. I no longer need to wash it daily.


Three months on the thing...





Sundays are usually the worst. I apply a hair mask weekly after shampooing to counter a bit the drying effect of keto, but it is as if that thing killed the follicles instantly. In the moment I put it, my fingers are covered in hair.


Side Effects:
Nothing, as usual. Can't say a lot about Libido loss, since it was quite damaged and dead before starting treatment. No Erectile Disfunction (Still works on demand), boobs, etc.
 

Curly82

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Why did you go straight to dutasteride instead of using finasteride. You are not heading to Zidane's hairloss pattern yet! I looks to me like the hairline has actually slightly improved.

I was far too desperate and directly took the big gun.


Updates.... It's been two weeks and a half with a heavy SSRI with alopecia listed as a sideeffect. Two weeks of mass hairloss again, that looks like it is finally stopping. New tiny hairs on the frontal hairline (unless they are broken hairs). Nothing decent on the temples.


Drier skin on spironolactone, but at least it keeps my oil production under control.
 

kthxbi

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gunna be keeping an eye on this thread - really interested to see how people do on dutasteride. good luck brother, congrats on starting on your journey of treatment.
 

antman

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i'm also following this thread - it looks like your hair might be darkening.

i know this might sound odd but don't rely too much on treatments. it wasn't until i started 'stepping out of my comfort zone' that i started to tackle depression/ anxiety and same with some of my friends
 

Curly82

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i'm also following this thread - it looks like your hair might be darkening.

i know this might sound odd but don't rely too much on treatments. it wasn't until i started 'stepping out of my comfort zone' that i started to tackle depression/ anxiety and same with some of my friends

Sadly, I was put on it by medical since the anxiety was getting so critical that I risked losing my job. I want it out of that thing as soon as possible.




Ok, time for an non-photographical update (because I am freaking scared of taking photos):
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Four months mark will be tomorrow. Situation: Awful. Since 21/12/2012 I've been on Venlafaxine. When I read the three pages of secondary effects, I started to worry, but what else could I do? It started with a shortness of breath, feeling pressure on the chest, muscle tension over all the body, and in the end, the inability to sleep without benzodiopamines. The only positive thing is that I am hyperactive all the day, working, exercising, playing videogames and my anxiety has decreased. The problems? What dutasteride and spironolactone could never do, this drug pulled it off instantly: Absolute loss of libido, anorgasmia... It can get up, but there is no feeling. But let's center in what we are concerned here: Hair.

They did not lie when they listed alopecia as a secondary effect. For the last 20 days I'm starting to wonder how chemotherapy must feel. I'm practically leaving a trail of hair everywhere I go. Touching the usual "safe zones" not affected by male pattern baldness will result on three or four healthy in the hand. Whenever I comb my hair I lost all sort of hairs, long ones and the tiny new hairs that seemed to be growing. Areas near the temples are looking worse than ever. Still, can't panic over it thanks to the damned drug. I'm only hopping that when I am allowed to stop, it will recover over time. Next week I have my next therapy appointment, so I'm hopping they will lower the dosage or allow me to come off it gradually.


There are people worried over libido loss on dutasteride. In my case it only heightened it, and it's odd how an antidepressant killed it.
 

LawOfThelema

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The problems? What dutasteride and spironolactone could never do, this drug pulled it off instantly: Absolute loss of libido, anorgasmia... It can get up, but there is no feeling. But let's center in what we are concerned here: Hair.


you know this happened to me when i first started celexa but eventually the sensation returned to completely normal... it was no feeling at all, then it went to normal after a few wks.
 

Curly82

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I need to make an update post during the weekend.

Ok, so I started with dutasteride (Dutas, Reddy's) on september, hoping that the dermatologist would give me a prescription for something, not expecting to be forced to wait 4 months until the blood test and visit him again. Today he was going to give me an official finasteride prescription, and I mentioned the dutasteride (not telling I've been on it for months)

"Yes, you are right, it's usually used for prostate issues. People don't usually want it because they say it lowers the libido too much, but if you want to try... It's Avodart"

So now I have an official Avodart prescription for three months and I don't have to buy it anymore from the internet. Although I think the one they are going to give me is 0.2.... "the only version they sell here". I need to come back in three months.

Libido, he says... If he has had access to my recent medical history, he may have had a little surprise in there...


Also, checked my blood work. Everything normal, no potassium / salt issues from the spyro. Anyways, I don't drink alcohol anymore and I have cut almost every junk food.
 

Curly82

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This is going to be very difficult to write.

When I told the doctor that I was losing hair because of the venlafaxine they had put me one, they only said "that's your anxiety, you should not believe anything they say about side effects, they almost never happen. Keep taking it."

Yeah, **** it. In the moment I started taking it my hair was falling like crazy three days later, and it was nothing comparable to a shedding stage: It was much worse. Whenever I woke up in the morning and comber my hair, the sink was full of small hairs falling, as if everything earnt in the last months was now dissapearing. It kept happen during all the day. Touching my hair would make it fall even in the areas not affected by male pattern baldness, and I was even scared, cleaning the hair everywhere so people would not notice. I did not care a lot, obviously thanks to the drug's effect, but the rest of the side effects were starting to wear me out. Chest pressure, inability to sleep without benzodipamines.. (and a possible addiction to them). So I decided to gradually increase the time between dosages of the short-life SSRI (nothing like citalopram). At first it was great. My libido starting coming back. I almost said goodbye to Mr Limpy. In the end, I found so much clearing on my temples that I decided to give the finger to the drug completely.

Libido came back, but... This morning aggressivity and irritability spiked, and now I'm like if I was passing the worst flu ever. SSRI discontinuation syndrome. Thanks Doctor, for turning me into a junkiw with withdrawal symptoms. It is getting worse and worse during the day, but I'm not going back to that crap. The only idea I have is swapping to citalopram (long half-life) for easing the syndrome until it stops, but ****. Hair goes first. I hope I can recover what I lost since I started. They say that they may grow back 2 weeks after stopping the drug...


I feel like crap.


Update time. My head is feeling better, enough to have the courage to retake the photos. Results aren't good.

17/02/2013:



The SSRI has caused an incredible damage since December, and I'm glad I snapped out of it and decided to stop (let's see what happens now to my head).





I think the crown has gotten worse, and temples have thinned again.



Scalp keeps thinning. I hope that I'll recover, but this is hard. As if every hope I had was crushed by that drug, no matter how much I asked them to let me stop. Well, **** them.

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21/02/2013:
Withdrawal effects from SSRI finally over. Back to anxiety, sadness and depression depending on the moment of the day. I'm back to exercising almost daily. Today I have been able to sleep without drugs for the first time in months.

Libido in overdrive mode, it is killing me. Sheeesh, C'mon, I've been taking Dutasteride and oral spironolactone daily for months. No gyno, no loss of libido, watery sperm, testicular pain. Nothing. I'm starting to think I was happier when the sex drive flatlined. Makes me want to increase the spironolactone from 100 to 200, but that would be dangerous. Somebody offered me to obtain androcur, but I already told her "no, I'm not risking more depression".
 

Curly82

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Well, at last. Real Avodart from GSK with a prescription. And it "only" took me 6 months to obtain it. I got a green prescription, which meant that I needed a seal from a health inspector, or the pharmacy would not sell it to me. When I finally was able to visit the inspector, the explanation was that if was for protate issues I could use the green prescrition (co-paid by social security), but for hair loss I needed a "white one". So I only had to tell the pharmacy to treat it as a white prescription and pay the full price. Which happens to be cheaper than the one obtained from the internet.


I don't know how my head is at this time since I haven't cut my hair in half a year, but I can say one thing for sure: No more hair on the pillow, and the loss amount when shampooing or brushing has diminished as well.
 

RapidRetreat

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Hey mate, interesting blog. I have switched over to dutasteride and have been on it for nearly 3 months after 13 months on propecia. I was shedding badly on propecia and since swapping to dutasteride the shedding has just gone into overdrive! did this happen to you when you first started taking dutasteride? I am even losing hair from my back and side as well as my eyebrows!? hopefully it stops soon I have tapered the dutasteride off toe 0.5mg every second day but only started by missing today so I will see how it goes. Were you getting a really oily scalp and itchiness? I hope it works out for you mate!
 

Curly82

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I was diagnosed with Gender identity Dysphoria and I went MTF. So now apart from avodart, minoxidil and keto shampo, I am on Hormone Replacement Therapy (spironolactone and Stradiol). My original hairline reappeared and the temples recoved a a bit more, plus they are now covered with vellus like hair. No hopes there, but for next summer I will do scalp advancement and reshaping surgery. After that, hair transplants. For the last months I've used a clip-on hair bangs extension made of human hair, but as hair has grown and temples moved a bit to it's original position, I'm starting to drop it. Life has not gotten any easier, anyways, and I'm pretty tired of the damned tranny chasers and random freaks sending dick pictures.

To sum it up, I got moderate recovery on avodart, but things improved on full HRT. Everything working on demand down there, despite wishing to see it removed.


Did you even get bloodworks before jumping on the drugs?

Not while getting them without prescription. Now I do bloodwork every six months, not counting the tests for hormone levels.
 

rerun

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Best wishes on your transition and I hope your hair makes a strong recovery. :)
 

Curly82

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Best wishes on your transition and I hope your hair makes a strong recovery. :)

Thanks, but not a lot seems to be going on. I believe I'm still regrowing, but I don't think I will move past the baby hair like stage. The surgeon for FFS can do hair transplants, so it is a good time to kill two birds with the same bullet. I've been 10 days on no treatment since they are putting me on Androcur in 4 days, so this is a god damned boner festival. Funny thing is how the endo described avodart: A piss-poor weak antiandrogen.



The only good advice I can give is: Kids, even if you are desperate, don't move further than finasteride / dutasteride, and get your liver checked. These things are dangerous. (Yeah, I know that a lot of you have seen KIWI's Thread and thought about trying spironolactone).


Justo to satisfy the curiosity since this is a hair thread, I'll leave this.



I'm still quite early in transition, just 8 months and things may start to speed up. Surgeries will start to come in the next months, so I may be a bit unrecognisable in the future
 

talmoode

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Thanks, but not a lot seems to be going on. I believe I'm still regrowing, but I don't think I will move past the baby hair like stage. The surgeon for FFS can do hair transplants, so it is a good time to kill two birds with the same bullet. I've been 10 days on no treatment since they are putting me on Androcur in 4 days, so this is a god damned boner festival. Funny thing is how the endo described avodart: A piss-poor weak antiandrogen.



The only good advice I can give is: Kids, even if you are desperate, don't move further than finasteride / dutasteride, and get your liver checked. These things are dangerous. (Yeah, I know that a lot of you have seen KIWI's Thread and thought about trying spironolactone).


Justo to satisfy the curiosity since this is a hair thread, I'll leave this.

bKAOKDW.jpg


I'm still quite early in transition, just 8 months and things may start to speed up. Surgeries will start to come in the next months, so I may be a bit unrecognisable in the future

thanks for the update. very good. Best wishes to you
 

Curly82

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Hi. it's been a long time and I don't feel like I have a lot to do here, but... I wanted to share a few things that I discovered.

When my dermatologist prescribed me avodart, he gave me a warning about a major loss of libido. Also, I should be worrried about sideeffects from spironolactone lowering my T... Truth is, I had zero feminizing effects on those things, and with a good reason:


I have my hormone levels tested every three months. Last time I posted I was off HRT, so I could see my what my Testosterone levels look like: 715 ng/dl. The upper limit is 850, so basically I have naturally high testosterone... Which negates any effects from low level Antiandrogens. A curse for me, and rather pissed about it. 200 mg of spironolactone paired with 4 mg of estradiol valerate get it down to 66 ng/dl, still a crappy level since the ideal female range should be under 25. I did not reach that range until we switched to cyproterone acetate. 100 mg actually will drop it to 23.

In case anybody is interested, here is my current regime:

- Cyproterone Acetate, 100 mg daily. Considered a medium dosage.
- Estradiol depot, injectable. 10 mg / 1 ml weekly.
- natural micronised progesterone, 200mg daily. This one can have antiestrogenic effects, so it's recommended to use it with the avodart.
- Avodart, 0.5 mg daily.

Funny enough, I'm still a freaking sex machine. I should be limp by now and unable to have penetrative sexual intercourse, but apparently just my mind is enough to keep it working (Can't wait to have enough cash saved for SRS). I still use minoxidil, but I dropped the the ketokonazole shampoo. That thing is ok with short hair, but for mine is like poison. I use a damaged hair shampoo combined with hair mask and conditioner, dry slow with a towel and then heat protector and irons, unless I decide to have the keratin treatment done.

Due to a new job post, My facial surgery has been postponed until maybe march 2015. I will be doing a tracheal shave, rhinoplasty with alarplasty, blepharoplasty and... forehead recountouring with eyebrow repositiong and hairline advancement and reshaping. The surgeon thinks he can lower my hairline by at least 2 cm, and to a maximum of 2.5 cm. Still, I would do hair transplants after it heals, hiding the scars and helping with the temples.
 
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