Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless

[NarWhal7]

Needling Progress Test #2:

I recently got to the 6 month mark of weekly needling (also on finasteride and min for 3 years) and I took several pictures to assess progress. However, as I said before in the prev test 3 months ago, I want a clean and bias free assessment from you guys, so I am performing this blind test again to address whether this thing is working for me or not.

I am going to post 4 pictures: ONLY ONE of them is the BEFORE (Pre-Needling) picture, and the remaining 3 of them are the after (post 6 months of needling) pictures. I randomized the order of the 4 pics and labeled them with numbers. The idea is that you should try to guess which is THE WORST PIC in terms of hair density of all the four I am posting.

The rationale is this: If needling is working, then the trend should be that most of you guys are picking the real BEFORE pic. If it's not working, then I should expect either no pattern at all, or most people picking one of the AFTER pics (post 6 months needling) as the worst pic.

Keep in mind that in all pics I tried to comb my hair in the worst posible way so my awful crown gets as exposed as possible,and were taken in the same angle, with somewhat the same natural illumination.


I will tell you guys the outcome of this experiment when I get to at least 10 votes.
I would really appreciate some help, please lemme know your opinion.
@Longway886 @kiwi666 @kiwipilu @Bill_Russo @NilesCrane @Headdy @Pigeon @Kagaho @samantha3333 @baldman329 @chen @longtimelurker @Kitedude @benjt2

To me looks like #3 is the BEFORE pic.

It is hard to keep similar lighting/contrast & hair combing patterns. It looks like #3 and #4 are the most different. I'd say #4 for sure looks fuller/thicker but it could just be combed differently or light hitting it differently.

 

[kiwi666]

...because people doesn't agree with the results.

Did you not see the photo results page from members? Or because “you say so” they don’t count?

Are you saying all those long term members are lying or delusional?

Just checking.

 

[NarWhal7]

From what I have seen and read, and from some studies that were posted, microneedling on it's own isn't enough to combat DHT.

However, it has shown in many people an increase in the effectiveness of other treatments, especially minoxidil, when used in conjunction.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/

Take that for what you will.

Also here's some pics from me.
Balder pic is at month 3 of the Big 3, started weekly 1.5mm dermaroll sessions right after this pic.
Recent pic is at month 11. Sorry for lighting differences.

 

[MeDK]

We? Are you and Roberta a team?

No, I'm talking about this forum in general, we don't achieve anything with the name calling. I hope we all are adults or somewhat mature enough to be around other people despite disagreements, that is what forums are for. To debate different points of views.

I agree with your points. But what’s the actual point? To what end do you want to be “right”?

What is my actual point? My point is that we should be aware of that we don't celebrate to early. Like taking outliers as a fact of the general population. Outliers are people/measurements that can't be accounted for. Maybe the hair growth could be because of less stress, because of now the feel like "finally I get treatment, and now i can relax" then it could promote normal hair growth again, which have shown that stress promote negative hair growth. And like I stated before, when we really don't know anything about the test subjects in the studies, then how sure can we actually be on the study?

Do you agree that there is no harm in trying needling? And do you also agree that some of the photos people have shared here are truthful? Members that many of us have known for years I might add. Do you agree that some people are seeing results regardless of ethnicity?

I'm not against people trying. Never said so. What I'm trying to state is, are we talking about outliers that is promoted as a success for the general population. That is a key question that needs to be answered.

f*** it man. There’s more proof that needling works than there is of there being a god!?!? Riddle me that!

What is proof I could ask? Sure there exist a lot of "proof" for anything you point your finger at. (Just look at flat earth vs round earth debate)

A proof is something that is isn't ambiguous, so is needling solid proof? As it is right now, it seems to be ambiguous to me. there are to many factors in this to clearly state that needling is the core reason for re-growth of hair.

 

[ToLGuy]

I don’t get it. I think there are actually a lot of good responders here. Spironolactone 200mg was proven to be a good treatment for female pattern hair loss yet you see on female hair loss oriented forums, most of us don’t respond to or regrow anything from this drug.

I do wonder and agree with you if the research was directed towards Asian ethnicity, given that I see far more Asian female thinning than other race And they seem to really believe in acupuncture

I have not claimed that there are not good responders here. I believe there are, and I don't think they are lying. However, I am talking about responder/non-responder ratio. For every alleged responder we see here, there is a non-responder popping up and expressing his disappointment. Proportions and ratios are a very important thing to consider. My criticism is mostly toward the studies: they are showing us a treatment with seemingly a 100% chance of response (which in the first place was the reason of the hype) , and clearly, this has not been reproduced here.

Some dudes might come in here and say "well, if it works for SOME people, then it deserves to be hyped". My reply to that argument is NO, it shouldn't be hyped. Let's say a treatment might have a response rate of 10%, and some dudes start making a big deal about it as if it is going to work for sure. What is the outcome? The outcome is that 9 out of 10 dudes will be very disappointed, frustrated and depressed because some other dudes gave them high hopes... Only to get failure.

With this, I am not saying that needling responders are a minority (actually, we still don't have clear numbers for this trial), and also I am not saying that we SHOULD NOT try needling just because response rates are not 100%. On the contrary, I think that we all should try it, but every newcomer MUST ACKNOWLEDGE that there is a considerable chance of not getting any results at all. That is the healthiest way of jumping into a new treatment.

It's the same thing that @MeDK said, let's not make sell some potential outliers as a general statistical trend. It's irresponsible.

That said, I encourage everyone here to tell any balding dude to try needling just in case they end up being a lucky responder, but I'd tell them to expect the worst case scenario as the most probable outcome. Just in case.

 

[ToLGuy]

Also, @samantha3333, I forgot to answer something you asked me in a previous post.

Minoxidil and finasteride seemed to have a positive effect at the start. Minoxidil filled my crown almost completely but I lost those gains quickly (that's how minoxidil behave for most people). Since then, I think I have mantianed at baseline, I am not really sure because I don't have any good picture from before starting treatments, so I'll never know. But yeah, at least my hairloss hasn't advanced since then.

 

[kiwi666]

i think you lost all your crediblity with this post. at this point nobody can take you seriously anymore

Says the liar / lurker.

 

[Jamesdunn]

I'm at week 9 of microneedling with minoxidil and sandalore topical.

 

[kiwi666]

No, I'm talking about this forum in general, we don't achieve anything with the name calling. I hope we all are adults or somewhat mature enough to be around other people despite disagreements, that is what forums are for. To debate different points of views.

Exactly. I'm not name calling. I'm pointing things out - like how Roberta lied about the Private forums.

We've been doing better than this for a long time.

What is my actual point? My point is that we should be aware of that we don't celebrate to early. Like taking outliers as a fact of the general population. Outliers are people/measurements that can't be accounted for. Maybe the hair growth could be because of less stress, because of now the feel like "finally I get treatment, and now i can relax" then it could promote normal hair growth again, which have shown that stress promote negative hair growth. And like I stated before, when we really don't know anything about the test subjects in the studies, then how sure can we actually be on the study?

I'm not against people trying. Never said so. What I'm trying to state is, are we talking about outliers that is promoted as a success for the general population. That is a key question that needs to be answered.

What if your way puts people off trying? I would just encourage you to be more balanced in your views since we don't know - lets work together to get more data and answer these questions. Putting people off (even if its not intentional) isn't going to help our cause.

Also, people here ARE aware of these outlier factors. People here are definitely NOT trying to say this is a success for the general public. That has never been stated by any reasonable person here.

It has always been "it works for some people - and not for some people". I think you're doing a really good job of articulating your point of view from a more sceptical lens. It's cool.

What is proof I could ask? Sure there exist a lot of "proof" for anything you point your finger at. (Just look at flat earth vs round earth debate)

A proof is something that is isn't ambiguous, so is needling solid proof? As it is right now, it seems to be ambiguous to me. there are to many factors in this to clearly state that needling is the core reason for re-growth of hair.

That's fair. For me its less ambiguous and my lens of inquiry is not around whether needling works, but why does it only work for some people.

Based on the amount of information we all have I think both angles are legitimate. I don't say it lightly either. What swings it for me is that Follica have been investing millions (for YEARS) into a needling device and a new topical solution.

To conclude I also think being a caring and responsible member of this community is important. People click here so that they can learn how to participate and test needling themselves. That's awesome, inspiring and more useful than us lot debating.

If you can't reconcile this, I honestly think we have a responsibility to the community to move this conversation to another thread. Especially since we all want the same thing. Growth!

 

[PhilQC281]

Thank you kiwi66 , sorry for the late answer .

Ok , for the video , i didnt know you already see it . Thanks for your advice .

I will dermarol 1 time a week for start . ( already begin )
And i buy nizoral 2% shampoo and i will use it 1-2 time a week .

This is my first start of my regimen so … will see in the futur the result and if i will use finasteride or minoxidil .

My pleasur .​

 

[kiwi666]

I'm at week 9 of microneedling with minoxidil and sandalore topical.

Congrats man!

But beware, maybe those new hairs, in that photo, are there because you're feeling less stressed. Perhaps you can save time and money just meditating for long peoples instead?

No I'm kidding. Awesome bro. Where did you buy the sandalore?

 

[ToLGuy]

To @kiwi666 and all of the other nice dudes who evaluated my progress, thank you. I should confess that not a single person picked the corect "before pic", which means that either 6 months of needling did NOTHING for me, or if it did something, it is cosmetically unnoticeable, and therefore equal to nothing. Personally, I think I didn't improve at all.

I shall let you know that I will keep needling nevertheless. At least for an additional year just in case there's the small chance of being a late responder (if that's a thing).
However, as I announced earlier, I am going to perform an additional experiment that I'll be sharing with you guys. Just as @longtimelurker did, I am going to needle Everyday. I just ordered 1mm rollers to do so. I will reserve my dermapen for the usual heavy sessions at 2mm,and will do "light" and short sessions with a 1mm roller.
I will do the everyday needling ONLY on one of my temples, just so there can be a fair comparison of needling everyday Vs needing once a week. I really hope this experiment will be insightful for me and for all of you people.

 

[kiwi666]

I have not claimed that there are not good responders here. I believe there are, and I don't think they are lying. However, I am talking about responder/non-responder ratio. For every alleged responder we see here, there is a non-responder popping up and expressing his disappointment. Proportions and ratios are a very important thing to consider. My criticism is mostly toward the studies: they are showing us a treatment with seemingly a 100% chance of response (which in the first place was the reason of the hype) , and clearly, this has not been reproduced here.

Some dudes might come in here and say "well, if it works for SOME people, then it deserves to be hyped". My reply to that argument is NO, it shouldn't be hyped. Let's say a treatment might have a response rate of 10%, and some dudes start making a big deal about it as if it is going to work for sure. What is the outcome? The outcome is that 9 out of 10 dudes will be very disappointed, frustrated and depressed because some other dudes gave them high hopes... Only to get failure.

With this, I am not saying that needling responders are a minority (actually, we still don't have clear numbers for this trial), and also I am not saying that we SHOULD NOT try needling just because response rates are not 100%. On the contrary, I think that we all should try it, but every newcomer MUST ACKNOWLEDGE that there is a considerable chance of not getting any results at all. That is the healthiest way of jumping into a new treatment.

It's the same thing that @MeDK said, let's not make sell some potential outliers as a general statistical trend. It's irresponsible.

That said, I encourage everyone here to tell any balding dude to try needling just in case they end up being a lucky responder, but I'd tell them to expect the worst case scenario as the most probable outcome. Just in case.

Yes. I think we ALL agree. My point is if it works for SOME people... try it out!!! Heck just 25 minutes ago an Established member (Jamesdunn) posted what look to be positive results.

As I said earlier, one thing is for sure, if you don't try, or follow any of the studies to the best of your ability, it definitely won't work.

 

[kiwi666]

To @kiwi666 and all of the other nice dudes who evaluated my progress, thank you. I should confess that not a single person picked the corect "before pic", which means that either 6 months of needling did NOTHING for me, or if it did something, it is cosmetically unnoticeable, and therefore equal to nothing. Personally, I think I didn't improve at all.

I shall let you know that I will keep needling nevertheless. At least for an additional year just in case there's the small chance of being a late responder (if that's a thing).
However, as I announced earlier, I am going to perform an additional experiment that I'll be sharing with you guys. Just as @longtimelurker did, I am going to needle Everyday. I just ordered 1mm rollers to do so. I will reserve my dermapen for the usual heavy sessions at 2mm,and will do "light" and short sessions with a 1mm roller.
I will do the everyday needling ONLY on one of my temples, just so there can be a fair comparison of needling everyday Vs needing once a week. I really hope this experiment will be insightful for me and for all of you people.

Cheers bro. Fingers crossed for your ongoing experiment. You and I are of the unlucky ones.

As we have discussed before, I am going to try this too because, I've got nothing to loose. And perhaps it's how and why things worked for @chen. Time will tell.

 

[Jamesdunn]

Congrats man!

But beware, maybe those new hairs, in that photo, are there because you're feeling less stressed. Perhaps you can save time and money just meditating for long peoples instead?

No I'm kidding. Awesome bro. Where did you buy the sandalore?

I have taken up zumba and gone to live in the wild. Pellwall.com

 

[HNMB]

So is this worth a shot for temple regrowth (assuming I'm on nothing else).

 

[overpourgoodfortune]

I get busy with work for awhile and come back to what feels like frenchy spamming the thread again. Yeesh.

Either way - good to see some legit progress posted by a few members. I haven't needled much in the last month and a bit sadly, was sick and had to travel for work. Excited to get back into it.

 

[tressful11]

From what I have seen and read, and from some studies that were posted, microneedling on it's own isn't enough to combat DHT.

However, it has shown in many people an increase in the effectiveness of other treatments, especially minoxidil, when used in conjunction.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/

Take that for what you will.

Also here's some pics from me.
Balder pic is at month 3 of the Big 3, started weekly 1.5mm dermaroll sessions right after this pic.
Recent pic is at month 11. Sorry for lighting differences.

View attachment 118674 View attachment 118673

11 months. This is another clear example of how good long term results can be. Some folks here cry foul when they don't see results after 4 dermaroller sessions, eventually discouraging newcomers from trying this regimen.
Most people overestimate the results they can get in a month and underestimate the results they can achieve over an entire year.

 

[Jamesdunn]

My hair is alot longer in after picture but microneedling has thickened my hair up drastically.

 

[NarWhal7]

Most people overestimate the results they can get in a month and underestimate the results they can achieve over an entire year.

Totally agree w this.

It's so tricky because I'm sure people don't want to waste time if a regimen isn't working for them but maybe they just need to keep going. Taking lots of pics at different angles over time helps