UV Spectrophotometer Results:

[Cassin]

CCS...

You made a huge mistake here. You are obviously not qualified and should not post anything like this until you are.

I don't mean to be harsh but you could really screw up some posters that think you know what your doing, which is obviosuly not the case. Countless people read these forums that aren't registered.

 

[Solo]

I have a chemistry degree and experience using UV-spect. Before entering to comment the graphics, please specify in deep detail the separative route you´ve taken with every compound, there´s no point in analyzing a graph if it´s not clear what do we have in it.
I have not much time now, tomorrow I´ll comment deeply. Please tell me the brand & model of the UV machine, if not possible, tell me how do you calibrated it. Thanks.

 

[CCS]

Cassin,

that is why I said in my orginal post that i just briefly saw the graphs, noticed they look different, and had to head off to class. if anyone is impulsive enough to throw their dutas in the trash and go pay $50 for a prescription that same minute, when I said i'd take more time to look at it later, after my classes that day, then that is their problem. All i'm doing is reporting my results, and I'm being very open about what i do and don't know and spent the last 4 or so posts explaining the possibilities.

Solo,

I was hoping a chemist would comment. I forgot you had a degree.

I don't know the brand, but i can go back to the lab and ask. Perhaps the software would be of importance too. It had a 6 inch long metal cylindrical probe like a straw about 1cm wide, maybe a little thinner. There is an opbical peice inside at the end. There are 3 fiber optic wires attached to the end which go into a box about 6 inches by 14 inches by 18 inches. The box just has an "on" switch, and two cables that go to a regular desk top computer. The box has two lamps, one for UV and the other for VIS, with 350nm being the switch point. It reades from about 170 nm to about 940nm, i think with tungston for the UV lamp.

I open the software with the mouse on the computer, which has windows 95. I dipped the probe in my 70% isopropyl alcohol sample and clicked "blank". It drew a flat line after about 15 seconds. Then I clicked "lock the blank", and dried the probe tip with a tissue between samples and tested each of the samples, first the avodart, then the dutas, then the elitenetavodart, and then duprost, just dipping and clicking "sample" each time. Very simple. Then I did the finasteride samples. At the end, I did the dutas again, and then dipped it into the blank to see if it still was flatlined. It had some noise as you can see. So I clicked "unlock the blank", clinked "blank" again, and then sampled the dutas again, getting the smoother graph.

For preparation, I put the finasteride pills each in plastic vials with 15 mL of 70% isopropyl alcohol and crushed them with a glass stir rod and let them settle for a few days in the fridge, and then pipetted the cloudy liquid out, leaving the powder behind. The finasteride samples all had a big round hump in the visual spectrum which I cut off, since i think that was white stuff we were seeing. i still have the full data set in excell.

With the dutasteride, i held the pills between the blades of a scissors, dipped into into the isopropyl alcohol, and cut them the long way, then stirred them for a few minutes and then removed the capsules with a tweezers. They sat at room temperature for several days before testing.

All solutions were prepared Thursday morning and tested tuesday afternoon.

I used the follow number of pills for each sample:

my elitenet avodart: 1
avodart: 2
aplunk1's dutas 3
my dutas 2
oldbaldy's duprost 2

dash's fincar 1
beaner's finpecia 2
beaner's finpecia 2
my proscar 1
my proscar 0.75 (about)
my proscar 0.5 about

I used my proscar to do the calibration. The software automatically expands the graph to fill the screen, and adjusts the axis, regardless of signal strength, so the lambda max is near the top, though it does not know the difference between lambda max a noise spike.

when I first saw the noise, I forgot the uv was supposed to be rounded, and i thought the dutas was off, and said this in my first post. when I looked at it again, I remembered and then corrected the post.

 

[Guest]

for what its worth i am still convinced that the dutas are authentic and that they will be vindicated. if the insurance company won't cover my avodart then i think i'll just continue on the dutas and maybe keep taking finasteride as a backup 3 times a week.

i was just searching overseaspharmacy.com forums which rate the service and products of online pharmacies and inhouse was near the top. people posted glowing comments about how inhouse would reship pills when customs confiscated them at no cost and they would include extra meds in the shipment as well, etc.

Inhouse really does have a stellar reputation and as i said a couple of pages go, inhouse buys their meds from an Indian wholesaler and the indian wholesaler buys them directly from Dr Reddy's. No reliable posters on here doubted the authenticity of Dr Reddy's products. The question was whether some pharmacies online were making fake generic Avodart. It appears from Inhouse's supply chain that this is nearly impossible for it to be fake.

 

[Guest]

Cassin,

that is why I said in my orginal post that i just briefly saw the graphs, noticed they look different, and had to head off to class. if anyone is dumb enough to throw their dutas in the trash and go pay $50 for a prescription that same minute, when I said i'd take more time to look at it later, after my classes that day, then that is their problem. All i'm doing is reporting my results, and I'm being very open about what i do and don't know and spent the last 4 or so posts explaining the possibilities.

CCS,

all due respect man, you know more about this stuff than me. but you did kind of give us the impression that the dutas was certainly fake and when you posted this in a thread of mine about my crown:

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... pot#239648

"the test results are in. don't buy dutas. I'm glad I stayed on proscar and did not stock up. I'm going to look at the excell plots I saved and hopefully find some errors in my eye sight."

it certainly resonated with people on here including myself. i don't know how you could call anyone on here dumb who threw away their dutas after reading the first sentence of that post. i didn't throw mine away and still plan on using them but someone browsing the site like a lurker or someone with very few posts may have seen this post and done exactly that. i think what cassin is saying is that if you hadn't done all of teh stuff yet that you shouldn't have posted a results thread until it was all done.

 

[CCS]

yeah, I agree. I should have waited. I meant "don't go buy dutas now". I did not mean "don't go buying dutas ever". I went back and deleted it from that post.

right after I made the first post I emailed the graphs to aplunk1 and goingat20, since i had their email addresses. i was hoping they would post them and everyone could look them over while I went off and did my stuff that day. I had been up all night the night before and was kind of out of it that day. I was not expecting everyone to jump that fast on my initial impression, within minutes or hours. I thought we'd all discuss this over a few days and some other chemists would look at the graphs.

I don't think the other chemists are necessary though. Now that I'm rested up and have time it is just a matter of noise on the graphs, and redoing some of the tests and doing an IR test.

 

[Cassin]

yeah, I agree. I should have waited. I meant "don't go buy dutas now". I did not mean "don't go buying dutas ever". I went back and deleted it from that post.

right after I made the first post I emailed the graphs to aplunk1 and goingat20, since i had their email addresses. i was hoping they would post them and everyone could look them over while I went off and did my stuff that day. I had been up all night the night before and was kind of out of it that day. I was not expecting everyone to jump that fast on my initial impression, within minutes or hours. I thought we'd all discuss this over a few days and some other chemists would look at the graphs.

I don't think the other chemists are necessary though. Now that I'm rested up and have time it is just a matter of noise on the graphs, and redoing some of the tests and doing an IR test.

I know you mean well CCS, but like it or not people will take you seriously not knowing your not qualified. You need to understand the massive amount of responsibility you put on yourself by something like this. You posted the misinformation so fast I don't think you realize at all what your doing. People see your post count and assume your an expert. Post count is misleading. Post count really means nothing and yet it is interpreted as expertise to a newbie. Look at my post count, I am an idiot.


Until this test is done by a professional please don't post it again on this forum.

 

[Old Baldy]

yeah, I agree. I should have waited. I meant "don't go buy dutas now". I did not mean "don't go buying dutas ever". I went back and deleted it from that post.

right after I made the first post I emailed the graphs to aplunk1 and goingat20, since i had their email addresses. i was hoping they would post them and everyone could look them over while I went off and did my stuff that day. I had been up all night the night before and was kind of out of it that day. I was not expecting everyone to jump that fast on my initial impression, within minutes or hours. I thought we'd all discuss this over a few days and some other chemists would look at the graphs.

I don't think the other chemists are necessary though. Now that I'm rested up and have time it is just a matter of noise on the graphs, and redoing some of the tests and doing an IR test.

I know you mean well CCS, but like it or not people will take you seriously not knowing your not qualified. You need to understand the massive amount of responsibility you put on yourself by something like this. You posted the misinformation so fast I don't think you realize at all what your doing. People see your post count and assume your an expert. Post count is misleading. Post count really means nothing and yet it is interpreted as expertise to a newbie. Look at my post count, I am an idiot.


Until this test is done by a professional please don't post it again on this forum.

Cassin and JayMan: You're both being a little unfair to College. He doesn't have reference points OR the ingredient list of the various medicines.

The reference point would be a graph of pure dutasteride powder in alcohol and the ingredients would come from the manufacturers of the gelcaps and tablets. (Then you would have reference points for (1) the chemical you were testing and (2) the ingredients, but not a reference point for combinations.) If you had reference points for combinations, as is common with manufactured products, you would be GOLDEN from what I remember.

College has neither. He is somewhat shooting in the dark.

Now I'm just going by my Old Baldy memory for things I did over 30 years ago. However, I do remember we had a reference point for the chemical we were trying to measure and the ingredient list for the product we were testing. Without that basic information, I don't know? :?

With that basic information we could make an educated guess.

 

[Guest]

Cassin and JayMan: You're both being a little unfair to College. He doesn't have reference points OR the ingredient list of the various medicines.

The reference point would be a graph of pure dutasteride powder in alcohol and the ingredients would come from the manufacturers of the gelcaps and tablets. College has neither. He is somewhat shooting in the dark.

Now I'm just going by my Old Baldy memory for things I did over 30 years ago. However, I do remember we had a reference point for the chemical we were trying to measure and the ingredient list for the product we were testing. Without that basic information, I don't know? :?

With that basic information we could make an educated guess.

Old Baldy,

i can't speak for cassin but i don't feel like i'm not being unfair at all. All I said was that I don't think results should be posted until testing is completed and if it is as you say that there is no access to ingredients lists then how can there be accurate testing? What I was concerned about was newbies reading these posts and being convinced that a lot of generic propecia and avodart on the web is fake.

you have said yourself that dr reddy's is a very respected company and no one doubts the great reputation of inhouse. so the testing required to disprove the illegitimacy of inhouse dutas should be very thorough.

 

[Cassin]

I am not being unfair at all. Qualification for something like this is needed. You don't "shoot in the dark" when you alude that companies are selling bogus drugs and people may be taking something unsafe with his test.

I got a handful of messages from people freaking out about this thread right when it got put up. How am I supposed to respond?

CCS in my opinion is a great poster and he has helped so many people on this forum and that is what makes these sites thrive. He has simply made a mistake with the thread.

 

[Old Baldy]

Cassin and JayMan: You're both being a little unfair to College. He doesn't have reference points OR the ingredient list of the various medicines.

The reference point would be a graph of pure dutasteride powder in alcohol and the ingredients would come from the manufacturers of the gelcaps and tablets. College has neither. He is somewhat shooting in the dark.

Now I'm just going by my Old Baldy memory for things I did over 30 years ago. However, I do remember we had a reference point for the chemical we were trying to measure and the ingredient list for the product we were testing. Without that basic information, I don't know? :?

With that basic information we could make an educated guess.

Old Baldy,

i can't speak for cassin but i don't feel like i'm not being unfair at all. All I said was that I don't think results should be posted until testing is completed and if it is as you say that there is no access to ingredients lists then how can there be accurate testing? What I was concerned about was newbies reading these posts and being convinced that a lot of generic propecia and avodart on the web is fake.

you have said yourself that dr reddy's is a very respected company and no one doubts the great reputation of inhouse. so the testing required to disprove the illegitimacy of inhouse dutas should be very thorough.

Don't get too sensitive. Just give College the benefit of the doubt. He isn't playing with complete reference points. That's the basic point I'm trying to make.

All we can do is make educated guesses.

Even when we had all the ingredient lists, etc., (years ago) it sometimes boiled down to humans viewing the graphs and saying "well that looks the same" then someone else would say, "well it doesn't look quite the same" blah, blah blah.

That's where I'm coming from. That's all.

College has posted the graphs and they do raise questions relative to the comparison of Avodart to generics.

 

[Cassin]

And by the way, I think Jayman is being level headed about this.

 

[Old Baldy]

And by the way, I think Jayman is being level headed about this.

Don't get too sensitive now Cassin. Like I said, College has posted graphs that raise initial concerns about Avodart vs. generics.

Maybe if College emailed those graphs to Dr. Reddy's and Cipla...hmmm?

Let them defend themselves. They're making money off of us afterall. :wink:

I would think this is something they would like to address?

 

[Cassin]

And by the way, I think Jayman is being level headed about this.

Don't get too sensitive now Cassin. Like I said, College has posted graphs that raise initial concerns about Avodart vs. generics.

Maybe if College emailed those graphs to Dr. Reddy's and Cipla...hmmm?

Read what I wrote before this page. I am not being sensitive.

I am not being unfair at all. Qualification for something like this is needed. You don't "shoot in the dark" when you alude that companies are selling bogus drugs and people may be taking something unsafe with his test.

I got a handful of messages from people freaking out about this thread right when it got put up. How am I supposed to respond?

CCS in my opinion is a great poster and he has helped so many people on this forum and that is what makes these sites thrive. He has simply made a mistake with the thread.

 

[Old Baldy]

I did, I see your point. You're not an idiot btw. :wink:

 

[Guest]

Don't get too sensitive. Just give College the benefit of the doubt. He isn't playing with complete reference points. That's the basic point I'm trying to make.

All we can do is make educated guesses.

Old Baldy ,

I am not sensitive about it at all. All I am interested in is helping myself and others on this forum with their hair loss. One avenue in hair loss treatments is of course the oral dht inhibitors like propecia and avodart. both of those drugs are expensive, especially the Avodart. A lot of users and lurkers on HairLossTalk turn to cheaper generics like Dutas, Duprost, and Dutagen because they cannot afford real Avodart or cannot get a prescription for it.

Dutas, the drug in question, is made by Dr Reddy's as we all know. Dr Reddy's has an impeccable record and a dozen of their labs have been inspected by our own FDA and judged to be satisfactory. The United States government purchases AIDS generics drugs from Dr Reddy's all the time. So we know that Dr Reddy's is a legit company.

We also know that InHouse, which is the company that Aplunk bought his Dutas from which he sent to college, is a very reputable internet only pharmacy. In fact, it's probably the most reputable of all of them.

Again, all I was saying was that considering these two sets of facts, we should be very careful not to question the legitimacy of these drugs without concrete proof of their illegitimacy, considering the fact that so many users on this site and people all over the world do depend on these drugs.

I don't feel like I'm being sensitive at all.

Regards,
JayMan

 

[Old Baldy]

I understand JayMan. Really, I do!!

 

[Guest]

Thanks. I also agree with cassin that college is a great poster and has helped many people on this forum.

 

[Old Baldy]

Yes he is and I will always give him the benefit of the doubt. He is a honest man.

He'll never try to mislead you and never lie to you. Plus, he's got about 1,000 more IQ points than I do!!

 

[Cassin]

Yes he is and I will always give him the benefit of the doubt. He is a honest man.

He'll never try to mislead you and never lie to you.

Agreed!

We still love ya CCS.