hairwegoagain
Senior Member
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Cassin said:
Yes, sometimes.... don't tell me this is Norm.
UV Spectrophotometer Results:
- Thread starter CCS
- Start date
Yes, sometimes.... don't tell me this is Norm.
however wants to see the graphs, and preferably post them, please tell me your email address or how to post them and I'll send them to you. They were saved in excel, but then I oppened them, made the axis easier to read, and pasted them into MS Word. I have the word Doctor for anyone who wants it. you do not need a chemistry degree to understand the graphs. I'm sure you will figure it out.
PM me and I'll email it to you.
I'm still going to do IR to look for fluurine in case the real avodart a seeming trustworthy person sent me is not actually from somewhere else. I'll also get a spectrum or the avodart I buy from walgreens and compare it to the ones I have saved on disc.
PM me and I'll email it to you.
I'm still going to do IR to look for fluurine in case the real avodart a seeming trustworthy person sent me is not actually from somewhere else. I'll also get a spectrum or the avodart I buy from walgreens and compare it to the ones I have saved on disc.
it is also possible the dutas has an aromatic inactive ingredient that is messing up the spectrum.
the test is not flawless. it just shows a different spectrum from the one an experienced poster sent me. and maybe that is in question.
don't go tossing your dutas yet. lets look at the UV. I just got back from my lab.
as for my qualifications, I am well trained how to use a UV spectrophotometer. It is basic chemical knowledege that aromatic compounds absorb UV light, and that steroids are aromatic. It is also known that none of the inactive ingredients in name brand finasteride or dutasteride are aromatic, so looking at those frequencies it a way to check authenticity.
UV spectrum can't positively identify a drug, but they can show a drug is not a certain drug.
the only for certain standard I have is my proscar. But there was a dramatic difference in the spectra of the different duts. I have not had time to look at them closely, but just saw the difference jump out, posted it, and went to my meeting. I'll be looking at it closer now and will email the graphs to any one who wants to see them.
the test is not flawless. it just shows a different spectrum from the one an experienced poster sent me. and maybe that is in question.
don't go tossing your dutas yet. lets look at the UV. I just got back from my lab.
as for my qualifications, I am well trained how to use a UV spectrophotometer. It is basic chemical knowledege that aromatic compounds absorb UV light, and that steroids are aromatic. It is also known that none of the inactive ingredients in name brand finasteride or dutasteride are aromatic, so looking at those frequencies it a way to check authenticity.
UV spectrum can't positively identify a drug, but they can show a drug is not a certain drug.
the only for certain standard I have is my proscar. But there was a dramatic difference in the spectra of the different duts. I have not had time to look at them closely, but just saw the difference jump out, posted it, and went to my meeting. I'll be looking at it closer now and will email the graphs to any one who wants to see them.
I took a closer look. all those huge spikes are called noise. it seems that finasteride and dutasteride both have kind of a big round peak at 240 nm, and a lot of noise, but some of the dutasteride seems to have a second smaller hump around 270 nm, and other do not. Seems kind of flimsy if you ask me, though the dutas does not have that hump it seems.
i still need to check the IR.
i still need to check the IR.
G
Guest
Guest
All,
I am in the process of uploading collegechemistrystudent's graphs.
I should have them up on the forum within the hour.
I am in the process of uploading collegechemistrystudent's graphs.
I should have them up on the forum within the hour.
G
Guest
Guest
Here are college's graphs:
These are all in 15mL of isopryl alcohol, 70%
Analyze them yourself.
These are all in 15mL of isopryl alcohol, 70%
Analyze them yourself.
htownballa
Established Member
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So what are the conclusions gentlemen?
G
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i pm'ed bryan and asked him to check this thread out. hopefully he will come and share his thoughts when he signs on. 
Old Baldy
Senior Member
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College: Thanks for the testing and info.!!
Please comment on the last graph "other dutas again" compared to avodart.
Why is the "other dutas again" graph closer in appearance to the avodart graph than previous duta/duprost graphs?
Maybe have your professor and fellow students look at the graphs also?
Different wavelengths are making it to the detector, no doubt about that, but are the spikes significantly different?
Are there any graphs out there for pure dutasteride testing? You know, no fillers, etc.
Please comment on the last graph "other dutas again" compared to avodart.
Why is the "other dutas again" graph closer in appearance to the avodart graph than previous duta/duprost graphs?
Maybe have your professor and fellow students look at the graphs also?
Different wavelengths are making it to the detector, no doubt about that, but are the spikes significantly different?
Are there any graphs out there for pure dutasteride testing? You know, no fillers, etc.
G
Guest
Guest
old baldy can you elaborate on what you mean in your post about the spikes being significantly different? are you saying that if they aren't statistically significant then maybe the dutas is authentic?
Old Baldy
Senior Member
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JayMan said:
I don't know, just asking. It would sure be nice if we knew where the spike(s) occured with pure dutasteride powder. Just for reference purposes. All the gelcaps have fillers though.
It seems most of the spikes come at the 200-250nm wavelengths (i.e., "other dutas" graph compared to the first Avodart graph).
I, being a layman, don't know how significant this is when the differential falls within a 50nm range. I also don't know why the last graph is more similar to the Avodart graph than the first duta/duprost graphs.
I do know enough to say that if the fillers are different, they can give different results. But why the difference between the last graph and the first duta/duprost graphs?
It's been so long since I've done anything like this that I can't remember the significance of the differences. I've been out of school for so long it's RIDICULOUS!! I don't even remember what the visible light spectrum is for Godsakes.
yeah, you a are right. the dutas does look right at the end.
as for the blank, it did not stay flatlined like it should (I tested the blank again at the end after testin everything else. Maybe some mixing happened.
Eihter way, there seems to be a lot of noise. It is possible the dutas just got burried in noise. This could mean that these chemicals were too diluted for the machine to read them very well. We are talking 1mg here. But steroids (not DHT, i think) are aromatic becuase of just two double bonds that are separated by one single bond. That means the intensity of their absorption in the UV is not very good. The machine automatically expands the graph to fit. Looks like it may have had to do a lot of expanding of a low absorbing chemical and that is why we have so much noise.
I suspect the 270 peak is the fluorinated benzene ring. I will try to look up values for that on benzene later today. Also, again, the IR will help.
For now though lets look at the absorbance levels and just see if the magnitutes are right.
as for the blank, it did not stay flatlined like it should (I tested the blank again at the end after testin everything else. Maybe some mixing happened.
Eihter way, there seems to be a lot of noise. It is possible the dutas just got burried in noise. This could mean that these chemicals were too diluted for the machine to read them very well. We are talking 1mg here. But steroids (not DHT, i think) are aromatic becuase of just two double bonds that are separated by one single bond. That means the intensity of their absorption in the UV is not very good. The machine automatically expands the graph to fit. Looks like it may have had to do a lot of expanding of a low absorbing chemical and that is why we have so much noise.
I suspect the 270 peak is the fluorinated benzene ring. I will try to look up values for that on benzene later today. Also, again, the IR will help.
For now though lets look at the absorbance levels and just see if the magnitutes are right.
Old Baldy
Senior Member
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The absorbence level is about the same with the other dutas graph as it is with the Avodart graphs, it appears.
The duprost graph spikes almost up to 5.0!!?? :?
I just don't remember what those differences mean anymore. I used to do some of this in an agriculture class, or part-time job I had at the university, when we were testing pesticides IIRC. It's been so da** long though that I just don't remember much. I'm not even sure wtf we were testing! :-x
But I do remember that we HAD to know what "fillers" were in the pesticides or whatever we were testing. And we always were dealing with a chemical quantity larger than 1mg. WAY larger.
Plus, we had a starting point for reference. Does anyone have a graph of pure dutasteride mixed with alcohol only?
That noise you're getting could very well be due to the different fillers. Of course this is based on my lack of memory guess.
I'm racking my brains out and banging my head against the wall but, for the life me, I just can't remember those testing details.
The duprost graph spikes almost up to 5.0!!?? :?
I just don't remember what those differences mean anymore. I used to do some of this in an agriculture class, or part-time job I had at the university, when we were testing pesticides IIRC. It's been so da** long though that I just don't remember much. I'm not even sure wtf we were testing! :-x
But I do remember that we HAD to know what "fillers" were in the pesticides or whatever we were testing. And we always were dealing with a chemical quantity larger than 1mg. WAY larger.
Plus, we had a starting point for reference. Does anyone have a graph of pure dutasteride mixed with alcohol only?
That noise you're getting could very well be due to the different fillers. Of course this is based on my lack of memory guess.
I'm racking my brains out and banging my head against the wall but, for the life me, I just can't remember those testing details.
the fillers have to be aromatic in order to give problems, but they would not give noise. well, they might if the computer did not measure them exactly the same as the blank. each time.
the computer remembers the blank's spectrum, and subtracts it from all the other spectrum. Unfortunately, my blank was 70% isopropyl alcohol, which did not have glycerol in it like the test samples. However, the glycerol should not show up in the UV because it is not aromatic. For a compound to be aromatic, there must be two double bonds separated by a single bond, and this pattern may continue.
I don't think any of the fillers are aromatic, but with generics, who knows. I'd need a list of ingredients.
Even if they were aromatic, they would not have jagged peaks like that. The jagged peaks are not from fillers. They are from the machine being near its detection limit, I think.
as for 1mg, that does not matter. What matters is the concentration, mg/ mL. This was 1mg per 15 mL. What also matters is the presence of other aromatic compounds.
So the duprost up at 5.0 is because of all the noise. We can't even see the duprost's spectrum because there is so much noise. I don't know why it has so much. If the computer had magified the graph of a weak signal, it would not be up at 5 like that.
the computer remembers the blank's spectrum, and subtracts it from all the other spectrum. Unfortunately, my blank was 70% isopropyl alcohol, which did not have glycerol in it like the test samples. However, the glycerol should not show up in the UV because it is not aromatic. For a compound to be aromatic, there must be two double bonds separated by a single bond, and this pattern may continue.
I don't think any of the fillers are aromatic, but with generics, who knows. I'd need a list of ingredients.
Even if they were aromatic, they would not have jagged peaks like that. The jagged peaks are not from fillers. They are from the machine being near its detection limit, I think.
as for 1mg, that does not matter. What matters is the concentration, mg/ mL. This was 1mg per 15 mL. What also matters is the presence of other aromatic compounds.
So the duprost up at 5.0 is because of all the noise. We can't even see the duprost's spectrum because there is so much noise. I don't know why it has so much. If the computer had magified the graph of a weak signal, it would not be up at 5 like that.
G
Guest
Guest
hmm so where are we at now? good chance that the dutas is still for real?
ever since old baldy pointed out that the last graph looks good, and I noticed that the others just have too much noise to say, I think it is possible it is real.
I'm going to keep taking my dutas and finasteride together and get access to the IR.
Also, I'm going to dissolve 6 dutas and see if that gets a stronger signal to noise ratio. I don't like doing that now since I only have a month supply left, so I'll have to order some more.
I'd rather test a few of your costco avodart than run out and buy my own just yet. The fact I could get noise one minute and less noise 10 minutes later shows that maybe I should try to get back in there and use the UV again. I'm usually timid about that, but everyone has given me access each time so far.
I'm going to keep taking my dutas and finasteride together and get access to the IR.
Also, I'm going to dissolve 6 dutas and see if that gets a stronger signal to noise ratio. I don't like doing that now since I only have a month supply left, so I'll have to order some more.
I'd rather test a few of your costco avodart than run out and buy my own just yet. The fact I could get noise one minute and less noise 10 minutes later shows that maybe I should try to get back in there and use the UV again. I'm usually timid about that, but everyone has given me access each time so far.
G
Guest
Guest
i think with the uncertainty of the results that to assume stil that the dutas is not real is a mistake, given the great reputation of both inhouse and dr reddy's.