Topical Dht-blocker With "no" Side Effets?

[Paulhenry]

Hello everyone,

I am a 29 year-old guy taking minoxidil (Spectral DNC-N) and Ketoconazole shampoo from 2011 to fight against a receding hairline.

I could manage to increase my hair volume at first then maintain it for a few years but my vertex is now balding too.
I have started to apply minoxidil and use a dermaroller on my vertex 3 months ago but I cannot see any result so far at the moment.
That is the reason why I would like to use a DHT-blocker.

The problem is that I have already tried to take oral and topical finasteride (generic propecia and Morr F solution) a few times in the past but I have to stop due to severe headache and depression (I have suffered erectile dysfunction once but it was still manageable compared with the other side effects).

Do you have an idea of what kind of product I could use?
I have read somewhere that a topical finasteride in gel would be less likely to bring side effets than a liquid solution mixed with minoxidil like Morr F. Is it true?
I am also considering topical spironolactone and minoxidil 15%. Do you think it could be beneficial?

Thank you.

 

[Ollie]

Topical spironolactone doesn’t work because it needs to be processed by the liver before it’s active.

Topicals in general are pretty awful and can only help maintain at best . If you really can’t tolerate finasteride then you’ll want to explore topical CB0301 or RU58841 .

 

[Paulhenry]

I thought topical spironolactone was known to inibiting DHT receptors in sebaceous glands.
It is the first time I read it should be taken orally to be effective...

CB0301 and RU58841 are really popular chemicals on internet forum but I am not ready to make any purchase if I have to make my one solution.
I have heard that an indonesian company was selling a minoxidil 5% + RU58841 solution but it seems that nobody on English-speaking forum has ever tried it.

 

[Ollie]

I thought topical spironolactone was known to inibiting DHT receptors in sebaceous glands.
It is the first time I read it should be taken orally to be effective...

CB0301 and RU58841 are really popular chemicals on internet forum but I am not ready to make any purchase if I have to make my one solution.
I have heard that an indonesian company was selling a minoxidil 5% + RU58841 solution but it seems that nobody on English-speaking forum has ever tried it.

Why not make your own solution ? you literally drop some powder in a liquid .

 

[Paulhenry]

There is no topical antiandrogen with no sides. And there won’t ever be one.

You are right. That's why I have used quotations marks.
The fact is the more the API is going systemic the more side effects are likely to occur.
I just would like to know whether a topical anti-DHT with less sides than finasteride in liquid solution exists or not.

 

[Paulhenry]

Why not make your own solution ? you literally drop some powder in a liquid .

Indeed it seems not that complicated to mix a powder into a Ethanol + PPG solution.
Unfortunately, there have not been any Phase II or III clinical trials for this material so I am still a little bit reluctant to use it.

That being said, RU58841 is supposed to bind to androgen receptors like ketoconazole and spironolactone so I would expect less immediate sides than finasteride which can alter brain steroids in some very sensitive people like me.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0960076017301024

For the little story, I have been working several years with ex-researchers from Roussel Uclaf in the company which purchased them but never had a discussion about RU58841 because I didn't know this molecule existed at that time. Now I think I should have.

 

[Ollie]

Because these drugs ain’t gummy bears. Delusional moron. He can make any topical, ranging from minoxidil with avodart capsules and spironolactone with broken pills women get for pregnancy. And what? He’s gonna get massive sides. The more a drug works or needs to work, the more sides he is gonna get. You don’t trick the body, you just deluded yourself that you’re smarter than it. You’re not. And then guess what. You’re gonna suggest to him to take other sh*t to “combat” or “lessen” the sides.
Meanwhile his liver and hormones are gonna be going batsh1t crazy.

Didn’t read.


Anyway OP - if you can’t tolerate finasteride and want to stay on the side of caution then use CB0301 due to its current approval status. There are plenty of suppliers selling it that have been tested via HPLC . Don’t expect miracles from it though - maintenance.

AA’s won’t affect neurosteroids as there is no enzyme inhibition. A huge amount of topicals users ‘sides’ are placebo unless it’s a 5ari due to its flat line potency. Unfortunately getting a vehicle that works and allows for >10% penetration isn’t easy. Liposomes are best but that’s a different game altogether if you don’t want to go to lots of mixing troubles.

 

[Ollie]

yes you did you delusional midget virgin. Yes, you did.

@OP, consider the damage a feminization protocol can and will have not only short term but long term as well. If a solution isn’t viable, do not start it at all. This tool upstairs is mentally unstable, he won’t take responsibility for anything. Neurotransmitters suffer severe and sometimes permanent hit from Propecia and Avodart. Be wary of your hair loss but first and foremost think rationally and put your health above all.

We NeEd OuR SKulLs ScaNned bEcAuse Of TeNsiOn .

You are hands down the most prominent contender on this forum for most stupid human - and I’m not saying that just for the sake of the insult.

To correct you though for the sake of other readers (as I feel like that’s what my job is now as you spread so much misinformation). finasteride won’t damage neurotransmitters (lol) however depending on 5ar concentration diminishment can suppress GABA which for some people won’t recover without the help of GABA enhancing drugs like proviron etc ..

 

[jazz1]

I use topical finesteride works great for me as oral gave me side effects, see my thread here:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...eck-here-for-alternative.121814/#post-1797859

 

[Inigo1202]

CB0301 and RU58841.

Add Stemoxydine to the mix, it's another growth stimulant like Minoxidil, but it works differently.

Also try dermarolling once per week, 1.0-1.5 mm. And hair vitamins and supplements.

 

[Kambrira159]

I find it bizzare that you suffered sides from Morr-F unless you were overdosing on it. That is extremely rare. The low dosage of 0.25mg is what you should be taking with topical finasteride according to the Caserini study and the chances of side effects are minimised.

 

[Mustang]

There is no topical antiandrogen with no sides. And there won’t ever be one.

Well, I must be a strange case then cause I am using Topical Dutasteride with no sides and it has completely stopped my hair loss.

What is the secret? I use it once a week or once every 10 days. 2ML.

Don't allow system build up.

 

[bluecyclone]

Has anyone tried mixing RU into PGE Topical Finasteride?

Losing ground fast on the Topical Finasteride alone, I think it’s the impact of T not just the DHT.

How much RU in a 60ml bottle?

 

[el_duterino]

The only side effect free anti androgen is CB.

RU stays active in blood for an hour which is more than sufficient to be pumped around the body and produce immediate side effects, by blocking AR everywhere, while CB is immediately converted into a non-androgenic safe substance.

Not everyone will feel these RU sides of course, just like not everyone feels finasteride/dutasteride side effects.

I used RU for 9 years, and it worked but I had to deal with sides, erection issues not even fixed by taking VlAGRA Some others reported gyno, or brain fog.

Gram per gram, RU is going to be more effective than CB as it has this powerful dual topical+systemic mode of action while CB is only topical, hence they used a lot more CB during the studies, 7.5% twice a day in 3ml which is 450mg a day, produced the best results, but smaller amounts did also work.

Aim for 200mg a day at least which, at the given Chinese prices is very expensive, this is why not so many people on these forums are seeing great results on CB unless they have deep pockets. RU is also much cheaper as its apparently quite easy to synthetize in labs

The Breezula product will be 7.5% once a day which equals 225 mg as per the study.

Another issue with RU - it has never been fully tested in humans so the safety and long term effects are unknown and will remain unknown forever.

 

[Grasshüpfer]

Man! Im so pumped for breezula. Only hypetrain I was legit ever on.

 

[bluecyclone]

The only side effect free anti androgen is CB.

RU stays active in blood for an hour which is more than sufficient to be pumped around the body and produce immediate side effects, by blocking AR everywhere, while CB is immediately converted into a non-androgenic safe substance.

Not everyone will feel these RU sides of course, just like not everyone feels finasteride/dutasteride side effects.

I used RU for 9 years, and it worked but I had to deal with sides, erection issues not even fixed by taking VlAGRA Some others reported gyno, or brain fog.

Gram per gram, RU is going to be more effective than CB as it has this powerful dual topical+systemic mode of action while CB is only topical, hence they used a lot more CB during the studies, 7.5% twice a day in 3ml which is 450mg a day, produced the best results, but smaller amounts did also work.

Aim for 200mg a day at least which, at the given Chinese prices is very expensive, this is why not so many people on these forums are seeing great results on CB unless they have deep pockets. RU is also much cheaper as its apparently quite easy to synthetize in labs

The Breezula product will be 7.5% once a day which equals 225 mg as per the study.

Another issue with RU - it has never been fully tested in humans so the safety and long term effects are unknown and will remain unknown forever.

Thanks for the heads up. I did a 3 month run of RU before the topical Finasteride, stopped because I was feeling early gyno. I’m very lean with decent chest so it was an obvious change.

@el_duterino

Do you think mixing the CB in the Topical Finasteride could work? how much CB per 60ml bottle of PGE Finasteride would get me to an impactful dose? I’m comfortable starting CB as there’s a future where a reliable source and FDA product is on deck.

could then ween off or continue the Finasteride if it helps...

can you PM your preferred source?

 

[Paulhenry]

Hello buddies,

Thank you for your comments.
I appreciate that people can debate on this forum.

Just a quick report:
It's been a week I am applying topical spironolactone 2% solution.
From day 1 I have basically the same sleep disorder side effect I had with finasteride but no brain fog. I feel even less depressed than usual.
Long-term sleeplessness has a very bad impact on quality of life so I hope I can fix it.

I have also tried one application of Minoxidil 15% so it's three times the quantity of drug I am using usually.
I got the same sides I had with minoxidil tablet but a bit less severe : chest pain, nausea and headache. I don't think I can manage them.

In conclusion :
It might depends on people but all my tentatives with topical solutions shows that the drug still goes systemic.
Even weak anti-androgen drugs like spironolactone can have side effects when applied topically.

 

[Paulhenry]

It's me again.

From yesterday evening I have terrible headache and impotence (I fell like my penis is not a part of myself anymore). Sleep is also bad.
Mood is ok.

I'll stop topical spironolactone for a few days to see if it gets better.

 

[TomRiddle]

It's me again.

From yesterday evening I have terrible headache and impotence (I fell like my penis is not a part of myself anymore). Sleep is also bad.
Mood is ok.

I'll stop topical spironolactone for a few days to see if it gets better.

Damn some of you guys really have some balls in playing with your bodies like that. I wonder what some of you feel when the damage becomes irreversible, i really can't understand such a trade off

 

[Paulhenry]

Damn some of you guys really have some balls in playing with your bodies like that. I wonder what some of you feel when the damage becomes irreversible, i really can't understand such a trade off

This is an OTC product supposed to have no side effects because applied at low dose topically.
I have never heard of men having this kind of sides with topical spironolactone even with the 5% gel.
It seems that I am particularly sensitive to antiandrogen... :-(