collegechemistrystudent said:
I keep seeing and hearing this 30g per meal thing. Where does this information come from? Why would the body be only able to absorb 30g of protein per meal? Were these studies performed on sedentary individuals? Would there be a difference between some young 20-year-old 230 lb. linebacker and an old granny's protein absorbtion capabilities, or simply between those with genetic metabolic differences? I'm not saying this is false; I'm just really curious as to which studies reach this conclusion.
I don't remember where I read it. I think it was on a body building site, so I can't vouch for the authority of the claim. Obviously it varies from person to person. The range is probably for people in the middle of the bell curve. Note: it is not just one value.
Anyway, if you could swallow one steak per day, and get all you need, then why do so many body builders take whey protein immediately before and after their workout? They could be wrong, but I think they are on to something.
Anyway, if you could swallow one steak per day, and get all you need, then why do so many body builders take whey protein immediately before and after their workout? They could be wrong, but I think they are on to something.
Harie, I'm sure the amount of food I need after a workout depend on how hard I tear down my muscles. But if I'm just in the gym 45, and do 3-4 sets of each muscle group, and don't feel burned out or sore or weak afterwards, then I probably don't need all that food. Maybe I'll bump up to 15g post workout. I just don't like whey protein because it is very low in arginine, though I realize it can get to the muscles fast.
I eat plenty of good fats each day from flax, sunflower, and sesame seeds and unsweated coconut flakes and cocoa. At my current level, I'm not sure if I should bulk more or cut.
I eat plenty of good fats each day from flax, sunflower, and sesame seeds and unsweated coconut flakes and cocoa. At my current level, I'm not sure if I should bulk more or cut.
Harie
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collegechemistrystudent said:
Body builders eat before working out so that their bodies don't become catabolic during exercise. Then they eat right afterward to make sure that their muscles have fuel to rebuild...IE their bodies already used up the carbs/protein they ate. Right after you work out, your muscles need protein and high GH carbs to stay out of a catabolic state. Then about 30 min to an hour after your post workout shake, you should eat a meal.
Competitive body builders eat about 2 grams or protein per lb of body weight every day in an effort to build muscle and keep out of a catabolic state. That and they're all juicing, so they need all the protein they can eat to allow the steroids to work for them.
If you can only digest 20g protein in a sitting, there's no way a 250lb guy could digest 500g protein in a day no matter how many meals he had.
If he eats when he first wakes up, and eats every 2 hours for 16 hours, and then eats one last meal before he goes to bed, and it is the equivalent of 2 hours, then in 18 hours he needs 56g/hour to take in 500 grams of protein. The range I posted allows for 30g/2 hours.
Even if he eats that much, we don't know if it is used, unless he knows from experience that he gets better results with 500g than with 400g.
500g is a lot. I eat 120g per day. The RDA is 50g. 500g is 2000 cal just from protein. How much carbs and fat do these guys eat? They're not on a carnavore version of the adkins diet, are they? How many calories can they burn in one day? I take in 2300 calories per day. They must be doing a lot of sets if they can burn 5000 calories, and not be doing any cardio.
Even if he eats that much, we don't know if it is used, unless he knows from experience that he gets better results with 500g than with 400g.
500g is a lot. I eat 120g per day. The RDA is 50g. 500g is 2000 cal just from protein. How much carbs and fat do these guys eat? They're not on a carnavore version of the adkins diet, are they? How many calories can they burn in one day? I take in 2300 calories per day. They must be doing a lot of sets if they can burn 5000 calories, and not be doing any cardio.
G
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collegechemistrystudent said:
CCS, these monster pro body builder guys eat like 5-6000 calories a day. You got to realize though that lean body mass is metabolic itself. The more muscle you have, the more calorically expensive it is to keep.
s.a.f
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Exactly, if you have twice the muscle mass of the average man and because of steroid use you can do huge amounts of sets therefore expending huge amounts of energy, then your body needs this amount of fuel. For a normal gym member like yourself consuming 2g protein per lb of body weoght is not necessary.
Most people agree I only need 3-5 sets of heavy weights, twice a week. But some say if I do and additional 5-10 sets of lighter weights per muscle group, every other day, that will get me fit faster. Is there any truth to this? Also, is it good to workout through the soreness? Some instructors say I should, and other people say not to lift if I'm sore.
aussie_dude
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no, whatever you do dont workout through soreness because you actually lose more muscle. you are doing more harm than good
I was up late last night researching this, so I will pass it on:
Burning is caused by lactic acid during workouts. It can go away fast or in 2 hours. Soreness is caused by micro muscle tears. You typically feel it withing 12-24 hours. You know you will do some growing if you are sore and take nurse yourself afterwards. You will probably build muscle much slower if you don't get sore at all. There is disagreement about the optimal amount of soreness, but a day or two of soreness is considered OK for growth by people on both sides. Some are sore for a week, though I think that is dumb. Some people say it is OK to do cardio while sore. I disagree. Very lite, high rep movements that don't come close to a burn should give more blood to the sore muscles.
Reps: force = mass x acceleration. High force = strength, and higher reps = endurance, but if you do 5 very slow reps, that is like 15 faster reps, and if you lift 50 pounds, that is like lifting 25 pounds with twice the acceleration. So the number of reps is ambigous unless you always lift as fast as you can, though this is not necessary for max results. But note that when you lift fast and gradually slow down, you are gradually reducing the amount of force you are using, which burns out the fast twict muscles first, and then uses up some of the slow twich as well at the end for a better burn. For this reason, if I pick a weight I can lift in less than a second, but take at least half a second to lift, even though I can lift a lot more, I can start out fast twich and have the effect of reducing the weight as I go. But lifting a heavier weight through a longer rep is more intense, so a mix is good. While lower shorter bursts are better for growth, anything under 30 reps or especially under 20 will still get results with less risk, so the main thing is to lift some weight and not sit around thinking about it too hard.
Burning is caused by lactic acid during workouts. It can go away fast or in 2 hours. Soreness is caused by micro muscle tears. You typically feel it withing 12-24 hours. You know you will do some growing if you are sore and take nurse yourself afterwards. You will probably build muscle much slower if you don't get sore at all. There is disagreement about the optimal amount of soreness, but a day or two of soreness is considered OK for growth by people on both sides. Some are sore for a week, though I think that is dumb. Some people say it is OK to do cardio while sore. I disagree. Very lite, high rep movements that don't come close to a burn should give more blood to the sore muscles.
Reps: force = mass x acceleration. High force = strength, and higher reps = endurance, but if you do 5 very slow reps, that is like 15 faster reps, and if you lift 50 pounds, that is like lifting 25 pounds with twice the acceleration. So the number of reps is ambigous unless you always lift as fast as you can, though this is not necessary for max results. But note that when you lift fast and gradually slow down, you are gradually reducing the amount of force you are using, which burns out the fast twict muscles first, and then uses up some of the slow twich as well at the end for a better burn. For this reason, if I pick a weight I can lift in less than a second, but take at least half a second to lift, even though I can lift a lot more, I can start out fast twich and have the effect of reducing the weight as I go. But lifting a heavier weight through a longer rep is more intense, so a mix is good. While lower shorter bursts are better for growth, anything under 30 reps or especially under 20 will still get results with less risk, so the main thing is to lift some weight and not sit around thinking about it too hard.
aussie_dude
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the technique i use is.. push/life weights up fast and let them down slow counting down from 3, this is proven to increase muscle size and build power. Everybody is different and no matter what science says, different things work for different people, so change around your routine if you find it is not working
Harie
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I hope you are changing up your lift/pause/negative portion of lifting every few weeks. If you use the same exact number of second lift/rest/negative etc all of the time, your muscles become used to it.
I 100% disagree that you need to be sore to have your muscles grow. There are many people that almost never get sore, but they continue to build muscle.
My shoulders never, ever get sore, no matter what weight I push or how many exercises I do. But every week I can generally lift 5lbs more (military press) than I could the week before. Which means my muscles have gotten stronger.
Work + food = growth. No matter if none of your muscles ever get sore from lifting.
As for not lifting when you are sore:
You can lift even if you are sore, provided you are not lifting heavy again. There are many programs that call for benching/squatting etc 3x/week. On Monday, you'll go heavy, Wed will be light and Friday will be medium. Then recover for 2 days and hit it again.
I 100% disagree that you need to be sore to have your muscles grow. There are many people that almost never get sore, but they continue to build muscle.
My shoulders never, ever get sore, no matter what weight I push or how many exercises I do. But every week I can generally lift 5lbs more (military press) than I could the week before. Which means my muscles have gotten stronger.
Work + food = growth. No matter if none of your muscles ever get sore from lifting.
As for not lifting when you are sore:
You can lift even if you are sore, provided you are not lifting heavy again. There are many programs that call for benching/squatting etc 3x/week. On Monday, you'll go heavy, Wed will be light and Friday will be medium. Then recover for 2 days and hit it again.
blueshard said:
Not so I feel better about myself. So hot women feel better about me. I'm ready for action now, but they are not. I'm all about health, and I'm not going to do roids or anything too fancy. But I'd like to put on 10 pounds of muscle in 6 months, and maybe I put on 5 in the last 10 months, so I have some work ahead of me.
I kind of doubt working through the soreness will give me maximum gains. Also, I'm having trouble getting sore from just one workout, even at 8 max sets that are a mix of 6-20 reps. I did feel tired after my first workout, and two days later feel energised. So I think I'll lift on the days that I feel most able to lift the most. I still don't know exactly how much time I want to give them to recover, and what fraction of my body I want to work on a given day.
Harie said:
No need to worry there. I can't even stay on a consistent schedule. Some times I take a day off, other times two days off, some times a light workout after one day off, and then another heavy workout after another day of rest after the light one. The only consistent thing is I rotate my upper and lower body and often split my upper body, and I always get at least 3 sets of each major muscle group.
I wish I could find my last post so I could know how many days it has been since my last workout. I think I just took one day off, but I'm not sure. It might have been two.
Anyway, I benched as many reps of 155 as I could. I thought I would do 8 like in the past, but I think I only did 6 this time. I then looked at the clock and made sure to do 135 pounds exactly 60 seconds after finishing the 155. I did only 6 reps of that. Amazing. I recall doing 18 reps when fresh on previous days. Then I waited 120 seconds and did the 135 again. that time I think I got 9 reps. I don't remember. But I had to set it on my abs, sit up, and stand up with it, and put it back on the rack. One of the weights almost fell off one end.
I dd a total of 3 sets of flat bench (I should have mixed the incline), a set of dips, a set of butterflies, 3 sets of cable pulls for the chest, and two sets of tricept isolation. That's 2-3x as many sets as I normally do. I topped it off with a set of rows and a set of reverse curls, felt light headed, and went home. My arms were shaking as I prepaired my whey protein and fruit juice and GTE and a few grams of creatine.
I think I'll do my cardio a few hours after my lifting, since i think it is very important to get fuel to my muscles right after lifting, at least for bulking.
I'm bothered that I'm not much stronger than I was 6 months ago.
Anyway, I benched as many reps of 155 as I could. I thought I would do 8 like in the past, but I think I only did 6 this time. I then looked at the clock and made sure to do 135 pounds exactly 60 seconds after finishing the 155. I did only 6 reps of that. Amazing. I recall doing 18 reps when fresh on previous days. Then I waited 120 seconds and did the 135 again. that time I think I got 9 reps. I don't remember. But I had to set it on my abs, sit up, and stand up with it, and put it back on the rack. One of the weights almost fell off one end.
I dd a total of 3 sets of flat bench (I should have mixed the incline), a set of dips, a set of butterflies, 3 sets of cable pulls for the chest, and two sets of tricept isolation. That's 2-3x as many sets as I normally do. I topped it off with a set of rows and a set of reverse curls, felt light headed, and went home. My arms were shaking as I prepaired my whey protein and fruit juice and GTE and a few grams of creatine.
I think I'll do my cardio a few hours after my lifting, since i think it is very important to get fuel to my muscles right after lifting, at least for bulking.
I'm bothered that I'm not much stronger than I was 6 months ago.
Harie
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collegechemistrystudent said:
Then you're doing something wrong. You should be vastly stronger now than you were 6 months ago. Look on bodybuilding.com for the Starting Strength workout. It has you in the gym 3x/week and easily packs on about 20lbs of muscle on people in 2 or 3 months provided your diet is good.
For those that say that working out when you are sore is bad, go read anything by strength coach Mark Rippetoe. Unless you are failing on all exercises (over trained), lifting when you are sore isn't bad at all...Especially for beginning lifters when your body doesn't know what you're doing to it. IE, it's practically impossible for a new lifter to over train.