This Guy Got Insane Regrowth With Daily Dermarolling (along With finasteride And minoxidil)

Afro_Vacancy

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im too far gone to bring myself back to a nw1. best i can hope for maybe nw2.5 with a hair transplant. those points just emphasis the receding too much. looks ridiculous.

lol to the shaver. i already tried this. it looks stupid because you can still see that area. i would need to use a blade or lazer the fuckers off.

Well, when you get a transplant, tell the surgeon to use those hairs.
 

Kagaho

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1.5 mm, I don't usually bleed, though sometimes I see 1 or 2 drops of blood.

It seems normal to me, it should not bleed much unless you do it very often and with intensity

One thing that catches my attention is how different they can react to dermarolling similar areas of the scalp

For example, my right temple zone is much more inflamed, it bleeds less and it takes much longer to heal.
 

infinitepain

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I dermaroll whenever I get the chance, 1 or 2 or 3 times a week. I do it a few minutes at a time, I start at the crown and work my way to the hairline.

Am I supposed to bleed and turn into a strawberry? Because I don't.
I don't know, Somebody claims he used 1,5mm but didn't fully press or some sh*t like that. I still don't know if dermarolling is a meme or not. Some tried for months with no result. Imagine hurting yourself for months to find 0 results, not looking forward to that. If I try it will be the derminator.
 

infinitepain

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dude can you laser off a certain area of hair?

i have a badly receding hairline but with really strong temple points. there not far off my eyebrows. it makes the receding look even worse. i want to get rid of those points to balance it out more

kind of like this

View attachment 85432

is this possible?
That's f*****g stupid. You are supposed to fix your hairline, not destroy your temple points.
 

Trichosan

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That's f*****g stupid. You are supposed to fix your hairline, not destroy your temple points.

Absolutely! Even if you're receding badly, they add angularity and distraction which, at least, adds some character and distinction. Otherwise, your head looks like a globe. Actor James Spader is a perfect example:

image.jpeg
 

Afro_Vacancy

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I don't know, Somebody claims he used 1,5mm but didn't fully press or some sh*t like that. I still don't know if dermarolling is a meme or not. Some tried for months with no result. Imagine hurting yourself for months to find 0 results, not looking forward to that. If I try it will be the derminator.

It hurts a little bit, there are so many worse things.
 

sunchyme1

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That's f*****g stupid. You are supposed to fix your hairline, not destroy your temple points.

lol

mate my temples nearly touch my eyebrows. they are closer to my eyebrows than most men. with my heavily eroded hairline it looks ridiculous.

if i could get back to a nw1 then fine, but i cant. getting rid of a couple cms, along with a conservative hairline hair transplant, would bring more balance to my face
 

infinitepain

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That fibrosis is a true killer of follicles and like "end stage" in the miniaturisation process . That's why getting on a DHT inhibitor early on is the best cure, once it's gone it ain't coming back baring something extreme that's released. A lot of time that you can't get back may have passed by then. With any disease, if the body can't regenerate lost structures, they are simply filled with collagenic sclerosis = end game.

I'm getting into habit of derma rolling for fun all on top, every so often. I am far from fibrosed hair follicles except where I had a transplant in the corners. I intend to keep the rest of the hair thick and in tip top condition. It was hard to roll before, as I'd always pull my hair out but since making it wet for this, helps a lot.

You're a very smart edition to this forum and congrats on being proactive with your regimen and helping others. Lots of people look up to you.

Is demarolling supposed to work with the fibrosis?


How do we even know we have fibrosis at a certain area in the scalp? shouldn't we all be buying USB microcameras to really inspect and see how it looks like? I can't tell from just looking at it with my eyes.

You mentioned also mentioned "collagenic sclerosis", doesn't minoxidil lower collaged levels? wouldn't this be bad for the scalp them? but minoxidil has been proven to be a top regrower.. f*** this.

Also wouldn't a dermapen be better than rolling to avoid pulling hair? the problem is, it would take ages to fully pierce the entire scalp with a derminator.. too small.

How many times a week to dermaroll and how much time do you wait before applying a lotion? what mm's?
 

nick123

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Yeah had my thyroid tested multiple times. Its normal. Im completely normal as a guy with male pattern baldness except that dutasteride doesn't lower my DHT.

Uhm how would you know whether dutasteride is lowers your DHT levels or not?

Im a diffuse thinner who takes 4 duta and 7 finasteride a week, minoxidil everyday and nizoral 4 times a week. I still cant maintain. Am i just wasting money on finasteride/duta? Its very hard to tell lol
 

IdealForehead

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Uhm how would you know whether dutasteride is lowers your DHT levels or not?

Im a diffuse thinner who takes 4 duta and 7 finasteride a week, minoxidil everyday and nizoral 4 times a week. I still cant maintain. Am i just wasting money on finasteride/duta? Its very hard to tell lol

You have to get a blood test. As far as I know, whatever genetic condition I have that prevents dutasteride from reducing my DHT is very rare. I've only seen one other person post about having the same issue online.

But if you are unsure, get a blood test for DHT. Dutasteride should reduce it to the very, very, very low normal or below normal range if it's working.

I would definitely get your hormones checked if you're not succeeding on that regimen. Check thyroid, iron, zinc, b12 maybe too. If that doesn't explain it, you could theoretically try adding a topical androgen-receptor antagonist or some other alternative therapies reviewed here:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...r-fighting-hairloss-2018.113431/#post-1652539
 

rclark

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Absolutely! Even if you're receding badly, they add angularity and distraction which, at least, adds some character and distinction. Otherwise, your head looks like a globe. Actor James Spader is a perfect example:

View attachment 85841

I remember when he was a full head, and I think he had a full head of hair for quite some time, if
I remember correctly?

He's another one of the "weird" balding guys out there, who started losing hair
very late in his life.

He had a full hairline, for a very long time. He probably
 

Thespain

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Yeah, I don't buy that for a second, for a few reasons:
1) There's no evidence that the APM is required for terminal hair growth. In fact, sea otters don't have APMs and their hair does just fine.
2) The connection to the APM is severed during hair transplants. After transplanting the new hair follicle, the follicle establishes a new APM connection. Also, Tsuji's hair germs (using just the dermal papilla cells and epithelial stem cells of the follicle) also organize perfectly fine into a fully functional HF, and these establish APM connections as well.
3) Actually, A.G.A is highly reversible in many cases. It's just that current treatments don't effectively reverse it. One exception: Strong anti-androgens combined with 17beta-estradiol. Even though not everyone who uses these gets amazing results, reversal of multiple Norwoods happens reasonably often. With conventional treatments, this happens very rarely. But the results of transgenders blow away a lot of these ideas.

I think to best explain this phenomenon, we should look at analogous characteristics of similar traits to A.G.A. What are similar traits to A.G.A? Any other developmental hair growth trait, basically. Unibrows, eyebrow thickness, beard thickness, body hair, etc. We can see this from the genetics of these traits. I discussed this before:



What can conventional treatments do for facial hair growth, or forehead hair growth? Well, here are some "good responders" to minoxidil.

View attachment 83722

View attachment 83723

That's a lot of peach fuzz, but will those girls ever grow a beard like this on just minoxidil?

View attachment 83724

Probably not. Minoxidil isn't enough to compensate for lack of the powerful hair follicle development program the genetic data implicate (probably launched in response to DHT). Same might apply to A.G.A - minoxidil very rarely regrows thick terminal hair in slick bald areas (one of the very rare exceptions is of course Somebody). Meanwhile, one thing that does seem to activate the fundamental developmental pathways in frontal scalp HFs is 17beta-estradiol, but that's a post for another time.



Come ooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.



With the proper tools, a lot more probably would.
I've been on loniten 5mg daily for about a year and I have hair growth in a pattern like in these pictures, but they're much thinner and light in color, a few off patches of dark hairs that I have to shave off every week. Some of them are long enough to pull, some are still shorter. Do you think there is any chance for me? I might need to up the dose anyway, my blood pressure is creeping back up anyways. I should probably go to a doctor and get an actual script at this point.
 

BalderBaldyBald

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@InBeforeTheCure posted back in one of my thread about that fibrosis theory, and whether or not follicles really die off, it can occur on very late stage of Androgenetic Alopecia (like 30+ years) and in relatively low percentages, long term fibrosis is not our main problem here
 

InBeforeTheCure

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I've been on loniten 5mg daily for about a year and I have hair growth in a pattern like in these pictures, but they're much thinner and light in color, a few off patches of dark hairs that I have to shave off every week. Some of them are long enough to pull, some are still shorter. Do you think there is any chance for me? I might need to up the dose anyway, my blood pressure is creeping back up anyways. I should probably go to a doctor and get an actual script at this point.

Any chance for regrowth you mean? Probably not much more than you already have after a year. If you dermaroll as well or add finasteride/dutasteride (if you're not on it already) though, then expect better results.
 

InBeforeTheCure

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D
@InBeforeTheCure posted back in one of my thread about that fibrosis theory, and whether or not follicles really die off, it can occur on very late stage of Androgenetic Alopecia (like 30+ years) and in relatively low percentages, long term fibrosis is not our main problem here

Here's a 1993 study: Diagnostic and predictive value of horizontal sections of scalp biopsy specimens in male pattern androgenetic alopecia

Excerpt (MPAA = male pattern androgenetic alopecia):

In alopecia areata a concentration of 1 or less follicular
structure/rnm? is likely to be inadequate for
significant regrowth of hair at some future time; this
low follicular density was found in 11% of the 62
cases analyzed." In this study, a similar 11% of patients
with MPAA did not show regrowth with
therapy, but with a density of 2 follicular structures
or less per square millimeter. It would appear that
the miniaturized foll icles in MPAA are only half as
likely to regenerate terminal hairs as they are in
alopecia areata. In plain MPAA, which by definition
in this study has no significant inflammation or
fibrosis, initial follicular structure density and hair
regrowth appear to be directly correlated. With a
density ofless than 2 FS / mm2, no hair regrowth was
seen, with 2 to 4 foIIicular structures/rnm-, hair regrowth
was seen in 81% of patients; with more than
4 follicular structures/mm/, hair regrowth occurred
in 100%. The regrowth was usually minimal, sometimes
moderate, but never dense. In complicated
MPAA, which by definition in this study has significant
inflammation and/or fibrosis, initial follicular
structure density and hair regrowth again appear to
be correlated. In addition, less regrowth may be expected
than in plain MPAA. With a density of less
th an 2 follicular structures/rnm-, no hair regrowth
was seen, with 2 to 4 follicular structures/mm-, hair
regrowth was seen in 63% of patients , and with more
than 4 follicular structures /rnm-, hair regrowth recurred
in only 67% of patients. Again, most patients
showed minimal regrowth, and a few had moderate
regrowth.
The 44 patients treated with 2% topical minoxidil,
and observed for a year or more, are too few to
provide results of statistical significance, but some
trends may be evident. The results of their treatment
correlate with those of other trials of 2% topical minoxidil
in MPAA, in that approximately two thirds
of patients showed mild or moderate hair regrowth,
and one third were unchanged.12 As in other trials,
the patients in this study younger than 40 years of
age had a much better chance of growing hair than
those older than 40 years of age. These similarities
may give some validity to the other findings in this
study that relate hair regrowth to follicular structure
dens ity and inflammatory changes. On th is basis, 2%
topical minoxidil cannot be expected to produce noticeable
hair regrowth in MPAA in which the density
of follicular structures is less than 2/mm2.
However, increasing follicular density leads to better
results, and noticeable regrowth can be expected
from 2% topical minoxidil in plain MPAA with
more than 4 follicular structures/mm", Significant
inflammatory changes may reduce these expectations
by one third.

In other words, fibrosis and/or inflammation are at least inversely correlated* with how much regrowth you can expect from minoxidil. But it's still shitty minoxidil regrowth, so yeah, it appears there's something else at work here. ;)

* I remember seeing a study where anti-inflammatories improved response to minoxidil in those with perifollicular inflammation, so it's likely causation rather than just correlation, but I can't find the study right now...
 
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