Theradome lazer helmet

ben123

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I questioned Theradome about the energy density of their product because the information on their website seemed contradictory. What does everybody think of the below? Here is the email:

If Theradome delivers 443 joules over 582cm2, then the concentration is 0.76 j/cm2. But your website says it delivers 6.959 j/cm2. Please explain. Thanks
Hi Ben,

Thank you for your sending your question. Dividing the square area of the scalp over the number of joules each one of our lasers output is not the right way to calculate average dosage to the scalp.

To be quite honest, these calculations are quite complex and depend on knowing the type of lasers and other aspects of our design which most are not privied to. So laser dosage / energy calculations look very simple, but it is very complex due to many variables that we do not share, as we use proprietary lasers. I would strongly recommend you to review this document ( http://www.laser.nu/lllt/pdf/theimpossibledose.pdf) , as this is a great review on how to calculate dosage. Also note that this review makes a tribute to Dr. Mester, the founder of LLLT and one of the main reasons why Theradome has selected 680nm as the preferred wavelength.

It is key to understand that there are variables such as beam divergence, power density, laser output, aperture characteristics and dose duration which goes into calculating energy density.

We firmly stand behind the fact that our unit outputs 6.959 J/cm2 which has also been validated by independent labs. Again, our goal is to penetrate as deep into the tissue as possible to reach all of the hair follicles up to about 1.5mm below the skin’s surface. We maintain 6.959 J/cm2 over a 20 minute period and most importantly we do NOT generate any heat and unlike other laser diodes lose optical power output versus temperature. See graph, as temperatures increases, optical power decreases substantially as a function of current and power:



The ability to have our lasers remain cool and still have 80 lasers each running at 6.959 J/cm2 provides maximum benefit to the scalp. We do not diffuse our lasers as this brings less energy to the follicles deep within the scalp AND we do not move or rotate the lasers, instead we keep them stationary in one area as it takes about 20 minutes to fully penetrate to the desired target depth of 1.5mm. In addition, we do pulse our lasers, this is usually done for laser systems to conserve heat OR power. Our lasers are naturally very efficient and are designed to run cool and use up very low current, so no pulsing needed. We run 80 lasers with no AC chord or wires, so our battery based laser system is extremely efficient.

We hope this information helps.

Best,


Misty

Theradome Support Team
 

anxious1

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how bout this? (from email reply above)

In addition, we do pulse our lasers, this is usually done for laser systems to conserve heat OR power. Our lasers are naturally very efficient and are designed to run cool and use up very low current, so no pulsing needed.

are they pulsed or not?
 

Jacob

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Sure its not just the plastic? :D


Amazing how your comment, here, gets you in trouble :woot: Nothing in that thread about the fact that it's now been uncovered that at least most of the helmet and the lasers are made in China- even if assembled in the USA(time will tell).(yeah, I know...everyone at Theradome was shocked to see that sticker for the lasers being made in China inside their own helmets after all this time) Nearly everyone disagrees with Theradome that it doesn't cause shedding- another thing just made up. Tamim's pictures either are believable but it makes no sense to follow his routine(use it daily) that got him those results or they're not believable but hey, the helmet is perty. But you must fall in line, Jojje..because you've just gone too far. Your criticisms must be pre-approved or at least agreed to prior to posting. :cool:

This post has not been edited. Not even once.

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how bout this? (from email reply above)

In addition, we do pulse our lasers, this is usually done for laser systems to conserve heat OR power. Our lasers are naturally very efficient and are designed to run cool and use up very low current, so no pulsing needed.

are they pulsed or not?

Ha..good catch.

On the rest of the post above- I've commented on it elsewhere..basically that any company could just make up the #'s then. And on the heat- other companies have said theirs are not a problem, either.
 

zazie

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There's a recent review paper published last month in Lasers in Surgery and Medicine, 'Low-level laser (light) therapy (LLLT) for treatment of hairloss'. It references many clinical LLLT studies up to and including last year.

Going over some of the studies it seems like there's a trend in qualitative vs quantitative results. Qualitatively, expert assessment tend to fall under no change or minor growth. Whereas quantitatively, there's definite improvement in density / cm^2.

Just something to be aware of when considering the value of LLLT and making conclusions from some of the papers. For example, the Apira Science LLLT helmet study (maker of iGrow and the Revage clinical system), also published in Lasers in Surgery and Medicine, reports 35% increase in hair growth over 16 week period but does not have any expert qualitative assessment.

IMO, the qualitative assessment is important since that correlates with cosmetic difference.
 

JM9

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So what's the current verdict on such devices for treating early stages of male pattern baldness? Any clinical results or at least user-documented results at all?

The biggest problem I have with devices such as these is that they always make claims like "science supports it", "proven effective in independent clinical trials" etc. - yet they never reference these studies! Same goes for sham devices like HairMax (I actually emailed them about this and got a ton of excuses - there is zero evidence for any kind of effectiveness, other than purely anecdotal), and so far Theradome team is not doing itself a favor for not being fully transparent. Same goes for the patronizing attitude of emails like the one above:

"We firmly stand behind the fact that our unit outputs 6.959 J/cm2 which has also been validated by independent labs." - Theradome team
Which independent labs? In what studies? Provide direct references or be prepared to be viewed as a snake oil salesman by anyone who has at least a basic idea of how modern scientific research is done.

So where do we stand on verifiable empiric findings, not conjecture and evasion?
 

Jacob

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JM9..I'll try to dig it up another time, but the Igrow has some bit of evidence that they claim did better than the MEP-90, which Theradome used to get their FDA approval for woman stamp. So at least for woman, those 2(not Theradome) have *some* evidence.

Then the LaserComb: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40257-013-0060-6 which isn't exactly about regrowth from what I remember.

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Jacob, your posts are so entertaining. If you "smell" a scam or a shill, we can count on you to appear in that thread and find the truth behind the scenes. "That" thread that mentions you was rather entertaining as well. You have definitely made a name for yourself in the hair loss community as a true devil's advocate and truth seeker. I still use my Laser Cap and I do think LLT does help "thicken up" existing hairs and make them stronger so you shed less. But to claim that something will not cause a shed is definitely unbelievable.

You say one thing here...another at HLH. And even that if there weren't a LaserCap..you'd have gone with the Theradome. Saying that the first week it came out would have made some sense. After saying the above and everything that has come out about them all this time, and the obvious very odd cheerleader in that thread you referenced..... :doh:
 

DoctorHouse

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Jacob, that was before I read the whole thread over there. The odd cheerleader you are referring to has at least tried many things and only reports about what he has used. The fact that he believes in the Proctor theory about other mechanisms of hair loss has swayed me to realize this guy is on the same page as me in certain theories.

I really do like his enthusiasm and positiveness which is a far cry from your posts that try to discredit anyone that wants to report something positive about their experience. I am not here to battle with anyone. I like the support aspect of it more than product introductions. Just because I don't agree with his one statement about the shedding does not mean the majority of what he posted is informative yet entertaining as I said to him. I find the guy just as entertaining as I find you. You guys take some of this stuff way too seriously and love to debate on such nonsense for what? To see who can win the pissing contest? I do like to have some fun in some of my posts but I don't see the point of debating on differences of opinion over and over and over again. I know you love to copy and paste threads just so you can retaliate. I know I made references to you in those threads purposely to test if you were reading them and even predicted you would post something to discredit me and of course you did exactly as predicted.

Anyway, you can continue to have your fun. I still don't have any animosity towards you because deep down in side I know you do have some mental issues that seem to drive you to these forums as they do for me. I know you really want to be helpful in your own way as I do in my own way so if you must continue to throw me under the bus, please do so as I know you are going to say I did that to you in the other thread. However, that was never my intention. If it makes you feel better to keep doing it to me than at least I know I did something positive for you.:)
 

Jacob

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B.S. The quote of you from before is " "That" thread that mentions you was rather entertaining as well." Now it's possible you reread it after all his editing- he edits things DAYS after first posting, after others have already responded, etc. Does an honest person do that?

Yep..there it is- he "believes in the Proctor theory". Now we know why the change of heart. Is this the same Proctor theory that Proctor bases his products on and why we don't bother with anything else? Why we're using a nanosomal minoxidil product that I posted about years ago and other things and now the Theradome? :woot:

"Positiveness"...are you sure you read the entire thread? Did he edit out all the blabbing about some pm club that never existed and no one there would have a clue about? The talk about a private forum and what he thinks about those ppl? Same for the talk about me- and the email address he wants you to contact him at. Oh wait..you mean the "positiveness" about the Theradome...that no matter what is found out about it/them, just like with Proctor...he goes blind and deaf.


You may have some mental issues(I guess that's your own "positiveness" there)..but please don't act like him and resort to that when you're put in a corner. You already knew I was reading that thread and getting a kick out of it. So next time just post it here instead of a place I don't post at, hoping I in fact won't bother responding to it.
 

DoctorHouse

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Unlike Bryan and the rest, I know not to take this any further. I am not going act like any of them and just drop it. I guess I will keep my opinions to myself for now on. I will step back and let you take over some other thread and create controversy.
 

Jacob

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So "controversy" is exposing a company. Telling the truth. Even just asking questions. Or pointing out when they don't answer them. Etc.
 

Jacob

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Jacob, your posts are so entertaining. If you "smell" a scam or a shill, we can count on you to appear in that thread and find the truth behind the scenes. "That" thread that mentions you was rather entertaining as well. You have definitely made a name for yourself in the hair loss community as a true devil's advocate and truth seeker.

Sorry..I just had to point out...even the leading cheerleader is now saying exactly what I've been saying- regarding them not being truthful on certain things and not responding to inquiries, etc etc. Of course it could just be to make him look not so shill'ish.."unbiased" etc..since he still believes there's something radical about this device and any products they're coming out with but haven't tested either. But I can't imagine anyone being so hot-headed and even threatening and then the company just brushes it off and gives the person hugs again. But then again...this is Theradome. I guess if actual "tough" questions about the device itself and the claims being made aren't asked(or answers withheld)..why not.

There's Tamin's pictures. No mention of seeing the lasers being made. Still no pictures of anything. They've now changed the return policy. They still haven't taken off the "doesn't cause a shed" B.S. on their website. FDA approved but not with their particular lasers- they used the MEP-90 data. Numerous spam posts from them in various forums/blogs. "Made in China" sticker on their helmets when the claim was it was all made in the USA. Even admitted the plastic parts come from China. A poster at HLF was sent a picture of their supposed new sticker that says "Made in the USA". But they couldn't send her one with the sticker on an actual helmet. The helmet is even being redesigned- after all that time making that perfect helmet by the smart NASA dude. I mean it took what- 7 weeks for them just to design that button? :woot: Thanks to all of you who've purchased it and will for awhile- you're funding their making of one that is actually comfortable and covers all the other bases.

In other news...a former Boeing Defense, Space and Security janitor is coming out with a new minoxidil product!
 

hair loss guy

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THERADOME MISLEADS THE FDA AND GENERAL PUBLIC - The Theradome 510K summary submitted to the FDA, predicates the safety and equivalency of the device off another device, the MEP90. In Section 5 of the 510(k) document Theradome submitted, regarding safety and effectiveness information which led to FDA clearance, is this statement: “The Theradome Laser Helmet LH80 PRO ……….utilizes laser diodes in the helmet to deliver laser stimulation to the ENTIRE SCALP…â€).

This statement is allegedly false, misleading and spurious in that the Theradome helmet does NOT “DELIVER LASER STIMULATION TO THE ENTIRE SCALPâ€. To show this, I suggest that anyone with a Theradome device turn it over and lay a tissue or paper over the laser to see the beam profile. This is the laser beam profile which would be on your scalp. You will clearly see 80 laser SPOTS and then lots of area outside the beam coverage that are NOT receiving any laser energy. In my view there are more areas not receiving any laser energy than areas that are. You will also note that in the most common areas of hair loss that people want to treat, the temporal area (sides of the head) and the vertex (‘bald spot’ on the top of the head in back) has very little laser light coverage and therefore leaves much of the scalp untreated.
Additionally, Theradome calculated the power output of their device, by measuring the energy coming from the laser that lands in a 1 square centimeter. Each laser only covers 1-2 square cm and only these specific sized areas are receiving the full amount of laser energy (HOT SPOTS). Those areas outside of the laser beam coverage are not receiving any laser energy (BLANK SPOTS). Therefore, the Theradome does not “deliver laser stimulation to the entire scalp†as Theradome claims in their 510(k) submission.

Based on this information, I believe that Theradome is allegedly attempting to mislead the FDA and general public, by filing their FDA 510K submission to the FDA with false and misleading information. This to me is a very serious situation, as all FDA submissions need to contain truthful and accurate statements signed by a company officer.
 

Jacob

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Breaking news...Stevo/Oldpro is now quoting from the thread at Hairlossfight to answer someone at HLH after insulting and telling anyone who dared ask any questions that they weren't doing their homework. Nice of you to finally do your own homework, Stevo...and in doing so admitting that what Theradome uses is NOT what was used and submitted for FDA clearance. That should have been brought up at HLH weeks ago.

Now just admit you have no clue whether or not Theradome is better than any other LLLT device..and the same goes for their shampoo and any topical products.

To hair loss guy...have you contacted the FDA if you think that's true? I'm not sure if they did anything illegal- I just think the FDA is a bunch of screwed-up..ah...nonsense.
 

ben123

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Jacob, please reference your claim that the Theradome is being redesigned. This would surprise me because as far as I know, the current model is less than a year old.

The helmet is even being redesigned- after all that time making that perfect helmet by the smart NASA dude. I mean it took what- 7 weeks for them just to design that button? :woot: Thanks to all of you who've purchased it and will for awhile- you're funding their making of one that is actually comfortable and covers all the other bases.
 

Jacob

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I think it was Hairlosshelp..that ludicrous thread...where it was said they were taking in ppls complaints and looking to make it better. What's more surprising(ok...not really, knowing everything we know about them) is that some of these issues should easily have been noticed by such a technologically advanced and genius-infested company, before the product was put out.
 

Kingman652000

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I am new to this site and have read this thread with intrest.
I just recently recieved a theradome I paid 600.00 for it and that included shipping.
First I can confirm that infact the theradome does have a sticker that says made in the usa, also the redesign that I see based on pics of the theradome are the charging port. As in now all you have to do is plug the cord into the USB port on back of the helmet and then plug it into the wall. Also you can hook it up to you PC I guess for down loads etc. as I said just recently recieved the unit but so fR so good as in it seems to be built well and I have had no issues with recharging the device.
Now as far as does it work well time will tell but it is actual lasers in the thing and it is much more convenient than sitting under a device or a laser comb that I can definately attest too .
Oh and the made in the usa sticker is affixed to the inside of the helmet.
 
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