Theory: Cooked Fat =DHT(Dihydrotestosterone) Baldness

[docj077]

here is why your theory is bad:

you eluted to the fact of human evolution, and how our diet had changed, thus causing male pattern baldness

well buddy, i have bad news, many species of apes, of which we have a common ancestry, have GOSH.... male pattern baldness

all without the modern American diet, all without not cooking fats, living with Eskimos or Native Americans :wink: :roll:

I don't know about you but I ain't no Ape

Apes are not humans.

DNA and ribosomal RNA sequencing disagrees. In fact, I have an evolutionary wheel so complete and based on sequencing that it can retrace the evolution of all species back to single celled organisms.

 

[Bryan]

I don't know about you but I ain't no Ape

Apes are not humans.

Yes, but SO WHAT?? You're trying to dodge the important point, which is that those other primates suffer the same kind of androgenetic alopecia that we humans do. They have been excellent animal models for testing in this area and respond the same way we do to the various hairloss treatments, including topical minoxidil, oral finasteride, RU58841, etc. They develop that balding while living in their natural environments, eating their natural diets, and I've heard rumors that they don't even cook their fats! How do you explain THAT little conundrum? :wink:

Bryan

 

[SkylineGTR]

man when i see a monkey start to cook his food then i'll start running for the hills cuz its gunna be a planet of the apes.

 

[bubka]

here is why your theory is bad:

you eluted to the fact of human evolution, and how our diet had changed, thus causing male pattern baldness

well buddy, i have bad news, many species of apes, of which we have a common ancestry, have GOSH.... male pattern baldness

all without the modern American diet, all without not cooking fats, living with Eskimos or Native Americans :wink: :roll:

I don't know about you but I ain't no Ape

Apes are not humans.

yes you are an ape you dumb ***, same freaking genes too buddy, same reason for male pattern baldness

in some species of apes, males are actually selected by females because of their male pattern baldness

DammitLetMeIn: i think your theory does have some merit still, because in planet of the apes, they did cook, and harvest corn, which is not a natural diet, which is why some apes in the movie had male pattern baldness

 

[Bryan]

man when i see a monkey start to cook his food then i'll start running for the hills cuz its gunna be a planet of the apes.

LOL!!

"Take your filthy hands off me, you DAMN DIRTY APE!!!"

 

[SkylineGTR]

There was also documented cannibalisms and ritual killings etc from back then with Native Americans. Who says they didn't kill off the ones going bald because their of their gods and all that jive? Your talking about isolated communities.... which i bet had no genetic predisposition for it. I highly doubt that was because of diet but rather stress and environment.... i mean thats like saying they are tan because of what they eat.

And there were many pre war jap instances of balding. Why do you think most of them had the type of haircuts they did. If they were balding they would shave it all off. I have Japanese ancestry and did ask my grandma about this(100% Japanese from japan and pre war with an integrated western diet later in life). Very preposterous. There has always been receding hairlines and widows peaks... and if they saw evidence of baldness they would shave it all off most of the time.

Sure diet plays a part if you already live an unhealthy lifestyle as it would cause the extra stress and obesity and diabetes etc.... But as im sure most of us are fairly healthy here so it doesnt hold much merit.

genetics not food.

 

[bubka]

no SkylineGTR: DammitLetMeIn has balding stats of Native Americans, Eskimos, and pre WWII Japanese to back them up, we are just waiting for him to post them

 

[Guest]

I killed off all my balding relatives to rid myself of the demons. But I still have male pattern baldness.

I wonder why.

 

[bubka]

did they cook their fats? thats probably why

 

[SkylineGTR]

lol...

I think Europeans evolved from balding monkeys. But in nature it all gets you in the end.

haha you should watch the movie idiocracy. In the future all the scientists are only working on male pattern baldness and erectile dysfunction and the world goes retarded. It's a pretty funny movie.

 

[michael barry]

The post-war Japanese are indeed balding more than they used to.


Perhaps this is due to less green tea, soya, fish, veggies, and rice (lotsa beta sis in rice) and more high glycemic index foods and processed foods in their diets?

There MUST be a REAOSON for this guys for us to be fair........




Bryan, I miss Charlton Heston. Im sad that he has alzheimers. Whatever one thinks about his political convictions, he was an honest individual.

 

[bubka]

The post-war Japanese are indeed balding more than they used to.


Perhaps this is due to less green tea, soya, fish, veggies, and rice (lotsa beta sis in rice) and more high glycemic index foods and processed foods in their diets?

There MUST be a REAOSON for this guys for us to be fair........




Bryan, I miss Charlton Heston. Im sad that he has alzheimers. Whatever one thinks about his political convictions, he was an honest individual.

do you have stats for that, or just pulling it out of DammitLetMeIn's ***?

 

[SkylineGTR]

increase in stress
social pushing (jobs)
pollution
etc...

you know japanese have the highest teen suicide rate right?

Food wouldn't be the ONLY answer.

 

[docj077]

The post-war Japanese are indeed balding more than they used to.


Perhaps this is due to less green tea, soya, fish, veggies, and rice (lotsa beta sis in rice) and more high glycemic index foods and processed foods in their diets?

There MUST be a REAOSON for this guys for us to be fair........




Bryan, I miss Charlton Heston. Im sad that he has alzheimers. Whatever one thinks about his political convictions, he was an honest individual.

That's what I'm thinking, as well. The problem with the westernization of the Japanese diet is not strictly related to addition of fatty foods, but that the Japanese have begun removing foods that are potentially rich in phytoestrogens and other substances that may potentially be stimulants of hair growth or foods that may inhibit hair loss all together.

 

[michael barry]

bubka,

Here is a wikipedia article that has some of that info in it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldness_treatments

http://www.hairlossuk.com/Hair%20Loss%2 ... 0Women.htm

http://www.newstarget.com/012893.html

http://www.onlyhairloss.com/hairlossprocess.htm
http://www.folica.com/Causes_of_Hair__d1282.html

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pd ... 04.00426.x

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3607815.stm

http://www.psoriasiscafe.org/baldness-definition.htm

http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C489177.html


http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... 67857/pg_2

http://www.hairloss-research.org/GreenT ... sSHBG.html

http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/uv ... 0309mh.cfm

http://www.drmcdougall.com/med_hormone.html




There used to be a webmd article that brought up the subject, but I couldn't find it. Anyway............I work for a Japanese company, and many of the younger Japanese execs have some recession, but alot of the old guys have all their hair, even in their sixties and seventies. Wonder why that is?

I personally think soya and green tea and rice and fish and veggies are good for hair from an androgenic standpoint, and McDonalds and Cooca-cola, no matter how wonderful they taste, are not.

 

[bubka]

thanks, i am sure you effort it well spent and intended, but i think i understand male pattern baldness pretty well here...

i don't care about your anecdotal evidence, this guy claims that Eskimos, Native Americans, and Japanese experienced no male pattern baldness

 

[Old Baldy]

I don't know about you but I ain't no Ape

Apes are not humans.

Yes, but SO WHAT?? You're trying to dodge the important point, which is that those other primates suffer the same kind of androgenetic alopecia that we humans do. They have been excellent animal models for testing in this area and respond the same way we do to the various hairloss treatments, including topical minoxidil, oral finasteride, RU58841, etc. They develop that balding while living in their natural environments, eating their natural diets, and I've heard rumors that they don't even cook their fats! How do you explain THAT little conundrum? :wink:

Bryan

No, but they eat high carb. foods like bananas! :hairy:

DLM: You've relegated Western medicine to Dark Ages types of practices. Now where do place the basic premise of the primates balding fact in your hypothesis? (Please just don't say they are apes and have no similarities.)

Also, all my life I've never heard a doctor say fruits, veggies, lean meats and whole grains are things we should stay away from. In fact, if I was to tell my family doctor that that was all I would ever eat when I was a kid, I think he would have fainted! LOL!

"Western" doctors, in the main, have ALWAYS felt diet was an important component to preventing disease. (Well, at least during my lifetime - which started in about 1807!) To think otherwise is incorrect IMHO.

My habits of juicing, growing fruits and veggies, eating lean meats, nuts, beans and whole grains came from DOCTORS' advice! One of the most conservative doctors, Dr. Stephen Bennett of Quackwatch.com, sent me an email stating he thought juicing was a good addition to an otherwise healthy diet! He didn't think it would replace good whole foods but it could help. So don't say Western doctors feel diet is unimportant.

My habits of sipping whiskey and smoking cigars DID NOT come from doctors' advice. :wink:

Tidbit: There was one jackass doctor, back in about 1950, who was the head of the FDA and stated diet has no effect on disease. He was not highly thought of by the medical profession to say the least.

 

[Old Baldy]

The post-war Japanese are indeed balding more than they used to.


Perhaps this is due to less green tea, soya, fish, veggies, and rice (lotsa beta sis in rice) and more high glycemic index foods and processed foods in their diets?

There MUST be a REAOSON for this guys for us to be fair........




Bryan, I miss Charlton Heston. Im sad that he has alzheimers. Whatever one thinks about his political convictions, he was an honest individual.

That's what I'm thinking, as well. The problem with the westernization of the Japanese diet is not strictly related to addition of fatty foods, but that the Japanese have begun removing foods that are potentially rich in phytoestrogens and other substances that may potentially be stimulants of hair growth or foods that may inhibit hair loss all together.

You guys are correct IMHO. Diet helps, to be fair, but it ain't the cure IMHO.

 

[Guest]

I am interested to hear of these foods that may inhibit hair loss all together? Wouldn't this replace the need to take drugs if this was true?

 

[docj077]

I am interested to hear of these foods that may inhibit hair loss all together? Wouldn't this replace the need to take drugs if this was true?

I exaggerated a little too much on that one. Sorry, JayMan. In Japan, a diet rich in phytoestrogens doesn't seem to affect the population all that much. As for a diet combination that can inhibit large amount of DHT production, there was a study posted on this site not too long ago that clearly demonstrated that taking in soy products along with green tea inhibited massive amounts of DHT production. Unfortunately, either one alone doesn't seem to work well and green tea alone may even raise hormone levels. I think a diet filled with fermented soy products and the daily intake of green tea could potentially do wonders for the hair and for keeping androgens down. I'm hoping that some better studies come out to help us out.

Some say phytoestrogens prevent prostate cancer, some say they may cause breast cancer, and some say they prevent endometrial cancer. Estrogens in general are linked to prostate cancer, but I don't think anyone has really worked that problem out, yet.