Theory: Cooked Fat =DHT(Dihydrotestosterone) Baldness

[DammitLetMeIn]

I'm telling you DLM, you can't dismiss genetics and evolution when discussing why humans have male pattern baldness IMHO.

I haven't dismissed it. What I'm saying is, is that diet an hormones affect genetic expression

So whilst you may have the gene to go bald, your body will have to create the requisite conditions through diet for that gene to express itself.

There are many many many genes like this in our bodies. People have genes for cancer but if they eat enough of particular fruits they can delay the cancer for a long time, perhaps until they die.

Which bit of the naked ape theory did you find pertinent to the argument?

 

[Old Baldy]

I'm telling you DLM, you can't dismiss genetics and evolution when discussing why humans have male pattern baldness IMHO.

I haven't dismissed it. What I'm saying is, is that diet an hormones affect genetic expression

So whilst you may have the gene to go bald, your body will have to create the requisite conditions through diet for that gene to express itself.

There are many many many genes like this in our bodies. People have genes for cancer but if they eat enough of particular fruits they can delay the cancer for a long time, perhaps until they die.

Which bit of the naked ape theory did you find pertinent to the argument?

Just found it interesting why some people feel we have little hair on our bodies, etc. I read that theory when I was a kid and just found it interesting.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Just found it interesting why some people feel we have little hair on our bodies, etc. I read that theory when I was a kid and just found it interesting.

Personally, I think it has more to do with wearing clothes/skin hides. I mean we dont need fur to keep us warm when we have animal hides to protect us therefore it becomes less of a factor in the survival of the fittest.

Baldness is caused by an androgen excess.

This is triggered by the wrong macronutrient balance.

Read the dietary info i provided.

 

[s.a.f]

Diet would play a role if you continually ate bad foods and threw your body to $#iT.

If you maintain a somewhat decent diet you body wouldn't hate you for it and would regulate what is needed.

Sure if you starve yourself your going to lose hair. your body would go into a stressed fight or flee mode and the chemicals would change for survival making use of anything they had. Malnutrition in general would mess everything up.

BTW my gma was from a rural village in the outskirts of Nagasaki.

Stress would play a bigger role then the food itself IMHO. Prolonged stress would put the permanent toll. Also influential factors that cause stress. The japanese had to restructure their society post war. There is alot more aggression and push to do bigger and better even in the workplace. The influence of western life in general not just the food.
Western society(specifically american) lives off of fear rather then honor.

Hmm, I think that some of the nw1 clinicly obese lard arses who visit mcdonalds on a daily basis and most of the malnourished third world who also seem to have some of the thickest hair on earth despite living a life that makes ours look cushy to say the least, would disprove this theory.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Hmm, I think that some of the nw1 clinicly obese lard arses who visit mcdonalds on a daily basis and most of the malnourished third world who also seem to have some of the thickest hair on earth despite living a life that makes ours look cushy to say the least, would disprove this theory.

they may not have the genes for baldness that diet can impact upon or trigger the switch of

an he third world is likely to have lower insulin levels

 

[bubka]

shut up about the f*****g diet, you have been soundly defeated by it because apes balled without the modern diet that humans eat that you proposed causes baldness

the same genes in apes that cause baldness, are the same genes in humans that cause baldness, two totally different diets, same balding

then you come up with this lame *** new theory, on your already bad one that apes must be starved to cause baldness... pathetic

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

shut up about the f****ing diet, you have been soundly defeated by it because apes balled without the modern diet that humans eat that you proposed causes baldness

the same genes in apes that cause baldness, are the same genes in humans that cause baldness, two totally different diets, same balding

then you come up with this lame *** new theory, on your already bad one that apes must be starved to cause baldness... pathetic

:roll:
Here the comes the '***' man

I agree with the ape thing, but not all apes go bald hence the macaque monkey being noted for this particular feature. It was a distinguishing feature in their evolution.

I'd like to think you'd be banned before I ever would. You haven't engaged in any form of constructive discussion and you consistently insult without ever reading the supporting material. You actually sound very insecure about the idea of diet impacting upon hairloss.

I agree that baldness is genetic but expression of the gene in prediposed individuals is, in my opinion, caused by diet and more specifically the macronutrient balance.

Moreover, I would like to re-iterate, it is not the 'modern' diet at issue but the macronutrient imbalance which leads to amongst other things to more bioactive testosterone and less sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) - backed up by studies.

 

[bubka]

thats a great example of a bad theory, congrats

i mean, you went from saying that it was not genetic, it was not evolution, to then admitting evolution, but still saying, "I aint no ape" :roll: :lol:

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

thats a great example of a bad theory, congrats

i mean, you went from saying that it was not genetic, it was not evolution, to then admitting evolution, but still saying, "I aint no ape" :roll: :lol:

I never said it wasn't genetic. I said diet influences genes (supported by science).

I never said it wasn't evolution.

I am still saying, I ain't no ape, but I concede after doing some research that they possess similar traits.

I am not afraid to admit I am wrong where it is warranted and am in fact seraching for the complete truth and the science which I have read, alongside the plight of the Eskimos/native indians leads me to believe diet where the genetics for balding are in existence is the overriding factor in their expression.

Your insistence on repeating the simplistic assertion that 'diet' has no impact upon hairloss is ill-founded.

 

[bubka]

thats a great example of a bad theory, congrats

i mean, you went from saying that it was not genetic, it was not evolution, to then admitting evolution, but still saying, "I aint no ape" :roll: :lol:

I never said it wasn't genetic. I said diet influences genes (supported by science).

I never said it wasn't evolution.

I am still saying, I ain't no ape, but I concede after doing some research that they possess similar traits.

I am not afraid to admit I am wrong where it is warranted and am in fact seraching for the complete truth and the science which I have read, alongside the plight of the Eskimos/native indians leads me to believe diet where the genetics for balding are in existence is the overriding factor in their expression.

Your insistence on repeating the simplistic assertion that 'diet' has no impact upon hairloss is ill-founded.

OK OK OK, like i said, i am STILL WAITING, for you statistics on Eskimos, Native Indians (in India now) or Native Americans, and pre WWII Japanese... STILL WAITING

and let me get this strait now, your theory includes cooking fats, eating too much simple sugars, and now, starving for over a week (which causes apes to bald)???

newsflash too, humans are in the ape family... you are an ape

by your own admission that it is evolutionary, diet is totally factored out, because you have apes eating a variety of diets, all with male pattern baldness...

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

OK OK OK, like i said, i am STILL WAITING, for you statistics on Eskimos, Native Indians (in India now) or Native Americans, and pre WWII Japanese... STILL WAITING

I have read loads of studies and they're all well documented. I will post some as soon as I get time.

and let me get this strait now, your theory includes cooking fats, eating too much simple sugars, and now, starving for over a week (which causes apes to bald)???

well cooking fats alters their chemical structure and they don't perform the same job as raw fats.

If fats weren't cooked we'd eat more foods which had raw health giving fats which lowers the glycemic index of accompanying foods and lowers leptin levels.

Yes, eating too much simple sugars can cause a release of androgens. (science to support)

Yes, starving for a week can result in a release of androgens.

If you dont think elevated DHT (for a specific individual) is responsible for baldness then...

newsflash too, humans are in the ape family... you are an ape

Dude, I ain't no ape.

 

[bubka]

newsflash too, humans are in the ape family... you are an ape

Dude, I ain't no ape.

jesus, even when the zoology is right out in front of you, you will deny it... there is no hope here in arguing against somebody who will go against scientific classification,

the family Hominidae consisting of gorillas, chimpanzees, orangutans, and humans,[1][2] collectively known as the "great apes".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape

you are are DLM, you "ain't no ape", you were created by jesus and or god... and are different then every other human on this earth.. ok

i will admit that science does show increase androgen levels in those situations, but enough to cause male pattern baldness??? enough to cause the hair follicles androgen receptors to become sensitive to the androgens? an increase in androgens alone does not cause male pattern baldness, you don't even address this in your very bad theory, you need the androgen receptors to either increase in numbers also, or react to the androgens, (and they do this even without an increase in male pattern baldness)

go study the pathology of how male pattern baldness really happens and then give us a call

 

[wookster]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgenetic_alopecia

Men with androgenic alopecia typically have lower levels of total testosterone, higher levels of unbound/free testosterone, and higher levels of total free androgens including DHT.[2][3]

5-alpha-reductase is responsible for converting free testosterone into DHT. The genes for 5alpha-reductase are known[4]. The enzymes are present predominantly in the scalp and prostate. Levels of 5alpha-reductase are one factor in determining levels of DHT in the scalp and drugs which interfere with 5alpha-reductase (such as finasteride, which inhibits the predominant type 2 isoform ) have been approved by the FDA as treatments for hair loss.

Sex hormone binding globulin, which is responsible for binding testosterone and preventing its bioavailability and conversion to DHT, is typically lower in individuals with high DHT. SHBG is downregulated by insulin.

Increased levels of Insulin Growth Factor-1 (IGF-1) have been correlated to vertex balding [5]

High insulin levels seem the likely link between metabolic syndrome and baldness. Low levels of SHBG in men and non-pregnant women are also correlated with glucose intolerance and diabetes risk, though this correlation disappears during pregnancy. [6]

 

[bubka]

again wookie, as we have to tell you every f*****g time you post your quote, Does that study correlate it to diet, or just people with naturally higher levels?? NO IT DOES NOT, i mean people have different variations of hormone levels just because of genetics alone

THERE NOTHING IN THAT STUDY THAT TALKS ABOUT DIET

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

again wookie, as we have to tell you every f****ing time you post your quote, Does that study correlate it to diet, or just people with naturally higher levels?? NO IT DOES NOT, i mean people have different variations of hormone levels just because of genetics alone

THERE NOTHING IN THAT STUDY THAT TALKS ABOUT DIET

You do realize its possible to lower insulin levels via diet?

And that diet can dictate hormone levels?

The influence may not have to be much for some people. An slight increase in insulin levels or androgens may be all that is required for male pattern baldness to initiate.

 

[wookster]

again wookie, as we have to tell you every f****ing time you post your quote, Does that study correlate it to diet, or just people with naturally higher levels?? NO IT DOES NOT, i mean people have different variations of hormone levels just because of genetics alone

THERE NOTHING IN THAT STUDY THAT TALKS ABOUT DIET

There is a srong link between metabolic syndrome and vertex balding ...bub. :hairy:

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20040615/2875.html

All patients diagnosed with metabolic syndrome should be encouraged to change their diet and exercise habits as primary therapy. Weight loss improves all aspects of the metabolic syndrome, as well as reducing all-cause and cardiovascular mortality18 (Table 2). While many patients find weight loss difficult to achieve, exercise and dietary changes that can lower blood pressure and improve lipid levels will improve insulin resistance, even in the absence of weight loss.19

 

[wookster]

http://www.webmd.com/content/Article/10 ... genumber=3

Young men with hypertension often have what's called "metabolic syndrome," which is known to contribute to heart disease and diabetes. It includes a cluster of risk factors found in an individual and include excess body fat (especially around the waist and chest), high cholesterol, and insulin resistance. Studies have also shown that early vertex baldness can be associated with HBP. In addition, obstructive sleep apnea and snoring are linked to HBP in men in general.

 

[wookster]

Could there be a connection between iron overload and vertex balding? :freaked: :freaked: :freaked:


http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/co ... 8/2061Iron



quote:

Prevalence of Body Iron Excess in the Metabolic Syndrome

The metabolic syndrome, clinically defined by the Adult Treatment Panel III (ATPIII) (1), affects 25% of western adults (2). The metabolic syndrome is closely linked to insulin resistance and implies an increased cardiovascular risk (3,4). Accumulating evidence suggests a link between body iron excess and insulin metabolism (5). Studies have shown an association between serum ferritin and one or more metabolic syndrome feature (6–11). Moreover, a syndrome characterized by hepatic iron overload (HIO) associated with insulin resistance features (insulin resistance–associated HIO [IR-HIO]), unrelated to genetic hemochromatosis, has been described (12,13). IR-HIO currently represents the most frequent indication to venesection in referral care units for iron overload (14). Data on the other side of the phenomenon, namely the prevalence of a potentially relevant iron overload in subjects selected for having metabolic syndrome, are scanty.

 

[bubka]

yeah wookie, iron can kill you if you ingest too much, i think everyone knows this, along with countless other vitamines and minerals, thats why they have those special lids :wink:

are you that simple minded that you find one thing and OH BOY, I found the silver bullet?? jesus you guys

again, NOBODY is denying that these hormones effect male pattern baldness, but you for some reason think that there is a direct correlation between food, hormones, and then male pattern baldness

there is none, people have many of these different hormone levels by genes only, thats why people are born with predispositions

in your guys fantasy worlds, we are all have the same male pattern baldness genes, we just eat the wrong food, except for apes, which must have been starved to have male pattern baldness
:lol: :roll:

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

yeah wookie, iron can kill you if you ingest too much

are you that simple minded that you find one thing and OH BOY, I found the silver bullet?? jesus you guys

he's indicating that everyone's body has a correct balance and when that balance is achieved (primarily through the correct diet) male pattern baldness will not progress