The Cb (breezula [clascoterone]) Community Thread

[Ausgebombt]

We already have that drug, it's called finasteride. Going bald later isn't what I would call highly successful, especially when drugs that accomplish that to a greater degree already exist.

Anyways, Ralf Paus seems to think we can find better drugs. It's going to be a long time though.

Rather than trying to grow completely new follicles, Paus thinks we should focus our efforts on trying to revive the ones we already have. He points out that even completely bald individuals still have 100,000 hair follicles all over their scalp. You just can’t see them.

“They’re miniaturised, so instead of making a normal long hair shaft, they only make a tiny, microscopically visible one,” he says. “But the organ is still there. So in order to solve the balding problem, we don’t need a single new hair follicle, we just need to get the ones already there to do their job properly again. If we could retransform these miniaturised follicles into big ones, we wouldn’t need a single hair transplant.”

Over the last four years, Paus has been exploring one particularly innovative way of doing this. There are a small handful of drugs, such as the immunosuppressant cyclosporine, which cause unwanted hair growth as a side-effect. By studying this, Paus’s research group has identified a completely new pathway for stimulating hair follicles.

“This [has] allowed us to discover some basic hair-growth control principles which could be used to find a completely new class of hair drugs,” he says.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...hair-loss-research-balding-medical-treatments


The drug he refers to sounds like WAY-316606.

Well I guess we disagree on a matter of opinion. For me, if I can keep NW3 or better hair until I’m 50 without nuking my hormones, I’ll be a happy man. Of course if I can do better than that I’ll be happier but I just don’t believe that is a likely outcome.

 

[tomJ]

Well I guess we disagree on a matter of opinion. For me, if I can keep NW3 or better hair until I’m 50 without nuking my hormones, I’ll be a happy man. Of course if I can do better than that I’ll be happier but I just don’t believe that is a likely outcome.

Agree. We have been told to be patient and remain positive for decades. Its time to accept reality.

 

[Jim lahey]

Why do people still have hope for Breezula?


View attachment 140116

I dont get it, it looks like it works to me keeping hair above baseline compared to placebo.

 

[Jim lahey]

How? Alibaba?

I cant find the original post but is this form 3 you talk about? Is it in regards to it being salted or not?

 

[Ausgebombt]

Agree. We have been told to be patient and remain positive for decades. Its time to accept reality.

Oh I'm staying positive. I just think there is a lot of unrealistic expectations out there too.

 

[Ausgebombt]

What do you mean? This is Cassiopea's own data on Breezula from their 12 month study phase II study. Of course treatment wasn't stopped after 6 months.

BTW where did you find that graph? I remember seeing it before but I can't find it anywhere now. Did they take it down?

 

[SteveTabernack]

I’m as big of a skeptic as the next guy but that graph doesn’t necessarily mean the product is doomed.

For all intents and purposes if a treatment results in hair maintenance or really any slowing of hair loss, it is highly successful. Clearly, hair maintenance for 1 year was achieved even at the lowest dose of CB.

The initial spike in hair count doesn’t mean the downward trend will continue at the same rate as before. There are also a lot of other factors such has hair follicle thickness and the Catogen/anagen ratio

Do you really think that aggressive downward trend just magically stops? We know no other drug where this happens. Even finasteride, that is considered a maintainance drug, has significantly better hair count results at the one year mark.

Funny how Cassiopea was all about comparing the hair count results of Breezula to finasteride when they only had their 6 month interim data. With their 12 month data they backtracked on this.

BTW where did you find that graph? I remember seeing it before but I can't find it anywhere now. Did they take it down?

Yes, it is actually really hard to find now. You see, when Cassiopea talks up their Breezula results now, they no longer compare the 12 month results to baseline but instead compare it to VEHICLE lol. Very disingenuous.

Anyway, I managed to find this presentation where the graph is included. Have a look at page 28 https://www.jefferies.com/CMSFiles/Jefferies.com/files/Cassiopea(2).pdf

 

[SteveTabernack]

I dont get it, it looks like it works to me keeping hair above baseline compared to placebo.

Sure. For one year. Then you're screwed again. Check my post above.

 

[ScaredOfBalding]

Sure. For one year. Then you're screwed again. Check my post above.

This has already been discussed, stop crying. And ur wrong about being screwed again.

 

[tomJ]

Whether there is a decline after a year or not, I'd he happy having my hair for an additional year. Heck maybe something else comes out and you combine the two for a nice one two punch. I'd be more concerned with it or anything else DOES cone out within the next three years. These companies delay more then the airports.

 

[Konjuh]

Hello.

What do you think about using it discontinuously? (combined with other treatments). I mean using it for 4 months, and stopping another 4 months, for example.

During the first months, it seems that the condition of the hair improves, then for some reason, it loses part of the land gained. But perhaps it is possible to maintain that improvement of the first months with minoxidil, finas ...
That will be my plan, (+ minoxidil, finas topic and some dermapen)

 

[Ausgebombt]

Yes, it is actually really hard to find now. You see, when Cassiopea talks up their Breezula results now, they no longer compare the 12 month results to baseline but instead compare it to VEHICLE lol. Very disingenuous.

Anyway, I managed to find this presentation where the graph is included. Have a look at page 28 https://www.jefferies.com/CMSFiles/Jefferies.com/files/Cassiopea(2).pdf

Thanks for the link. Very helpful.

I agree it appears Cassiopea is intentionally trying to "play up" their 1-year phase II results. After all, they are still trying to get investors on-board. However, I doubt the researchers at Cassiopea are dumb. Phase III trials are super expensive and if they didn't think their drug would be profitable in a market that is saturated with cheap off-patent treatments, they would have pulled the plug on the whole project and not have reported their phase II results at all.

As such, I'm not paying too much attention to the actual numbers in their phase II study. As long as they are moving the product towards approval, I'm stoked. Most if not all hair loss treatments developed since the 90's have crashed and burned before completing phase III.

The back-pedaling on how they report results is interesting to watch though. I remember the hype that occurred in early 2019 when they reported their 6-month results.

 

[irao33]

I had a shipment of another drug held up in customs for a week in Memphis. I kept calling, and they kept lying to me. They said they had to search for it, and asked me to describe what was inside lol It finally got released after a week. 3 weeks is a very long time for it to be stuck. You might want to call them, but be prepared to answer questions.

Thanks for the feedback. So I called customs in Memphis, and they told me it was seized and will not be shipped. They said it looks illegal, so I may get a letter and a fine. I had CB shipped from the same supplier 3x going through Memphis, and it got to me with no problems, so I don't know what's changed now.

 

[SteveTabernack]

Thanks for the link. Very helpful.

I agree it appears Cassiopea is intentionally trying to "play up" their 1-year phase II results. After all, they are still trying to get investors on-board. However, I doubt the researchers at Cassiopea are dumb. Phase III trials are super expensive and if they didn't think their drug would be profitable in a market that is saturated with cheap off-patent treatments, they would have pulled the plug on the whole project and not have reported their phase II results at all.

As such, I'm not paying too much attention to the actual numbers in their phase II study. As long as they are moving the product towards approval, I'm stoked. Most if not all hair loss treatments developed since the 90's have crashed and burned before completing phase III.

The back-pedaling on how they report results is interesting to watch though. I remember the hype that occurred in early 2019 when they reported their 6-month results.

I do understand optimism over the fact that the the drug is being pushed toward entering phase III. Probably their hasn't been a hair loss drug in phase III since finasteride?

That the drug is being pushed forward really has nothing to do with whether the actual researchers are dumb or not though. They just conduct the trials and present the data to the people making decisions.

One must also remember that entering phase III in no way means that the drugs even ends up making it to the market. Around 50% of drugs that undertake phase III trials do not make it.

Personally I deem it highly unlikely for Breezula to make it if can't even compete with whats already on the market.

 

[Ausgebombt]

I do understand optimism over the fact that the the drug is being pushed toward entering phase III. Probably their hasn't been a hair loss drug in phase III since finasteride?

That the drug is being pushed forward really has nothing to do with whether the actual researchers are dumb or not though. They just conduct the trials and present the data to the people making decisions.

One must also remember that entering phase III in no way means that the drugs even ends up making it to the market. Around 50% of drugs that undertake phase III trials do not make it.

Personally I deem it highly unlikely for Breezula to make it if can't even compete with whats already on the market.

I’d hope the people making the decisions are indeed informed, but perhaps that is not the case (especially if Italian corporations operate the same way they do here in the US ).

I think Pegasus has a point. The cost of producing CB will be shared with the anti-acne formulation, thus making manufacturing cheaper once the product is marketed. So perhaps Cassiopea plans to get a positive ROI only because manufacturing will be cheap. However, they still are paying for phase 2, 3, and eventually 4 (post-marketing) studies of 7.5% Breezula... which much be expensive and do not share expenses with the acne formulation. I assume manufacturing is very low compared to the cost it requires to get FDA approval via the phased trial system.

So yeah, I am not holding out for a miracle here. But I still think this is some of the best news the hairloss community has received in decades, if only because all the other news has been exceptionally bad haha

 

[Ausgebombt]

That is the biggest expense, but those trials are already paid. When companies give up after running a phase 3 trial it's because the efficacy isn't enough to justify going into production. Since production is already basically set up it doesn't take much in the way of sales projections to justify moving forward. If they had to do it again and spend money on phase 2 and 3 trials then they may think twice, but that's a sunk cost now. Even still they might do it again with the preclinical develpment and trials being a shared cost. They will certainly break even in a few years.

I guess we could go back and forth all day. I think this virus is the biggest obstacle now. If Cassiopea truly were on the fence about this drug, surely the financial strain due to this virus would result in cancellation.

That would truly be poetic... The first hair loss treatment to reach phase III in over two decades and a once-in-a-century plague comes along and ruins it. If by some miracle the drug survives, I’ll be fully expecting Mt Vesuvius to erupt again or the visigoths to sack Rome or wherever Cassiopea is

 

[Ausgebombt]

I won't lose any sleep over this treatment if it does get canned. I have my RU which is more potent. In my mind the only use for this would be for side-effect-free maintenance after a hair transplant, but I don't think it can do that for long. You're still going to be stuck using finasteride.

Btw you ever have success with RU? I’ve been on it for 5 weeks and no decreased shedding or anything. Probably too soon to tell even if it does work, but I seriously have my doubts because the whole thing feels scammy. The only people who really swear by it are paid affiliates like MPMD and GLL. Hellouser was clearly in bed with the admins of HairLossTalk.com, who are also likely paid to promote anageninc. Beyond the paid affiliates, the remaining YouTube videos dealing with RU (not just hypothesizing about it) are from unestablished channels with no other content. Everything I can find about it has a scammy smell to it.

 

[Ausgebombt]

I did. I used it a few years ago for 3 or 4 months and my existing hairs started coming in thicker which gave me significantly more coverage.

why stop then?

 

[bulli103]

I won't lose any sleep over this treatment if it does get canned. I have my RU which is more potent. In my mind the only use for this would be for side-effect-free maintenance after a hair transplant, but I don't think it can do that for long. You're still going to be stuck using finasteride.

ru is much less potent than cb.....doesn't matter what they write....you should try it, than you can talk about.....

 

[bulli103]

i know...but in real for me yes, and i was using ru a long time.....try cb.....i think you will change your mind......