Surprising Update On Hanson & Wong. Could Be Nice! | Page 13 | HairLossTalk Forums

Surprising Update On Hanson & Wong. Could Be Nice!

Discussion in 'New Research, Studies, and Technologies' started by Pavi, Nov 7, 2017.

  1. dermrafok

    dermrafok Established Member My Regimen

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    I am not making this up: We need new alternatives to Finasteride and Minoxidil. That's the truth. It is not easy to publish in Pubmed...
     
  2. tjnpdx

    tjnpdx Banned

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    Hey man, I’m all with you. No need to convince me. Everyone here really knows it, deep down. The majority of us aren’t here to be told to take finasteride and use minoxidil; we’re here because we expect something new and innovative to replace those duplicitous relics.
     
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  3. dermrafok

    dermrafok Established Member My Regimen

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    "Those duplicitous relics"...This treatments were good in their time..but in 2018 they are outdated treatments...
     
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  4. tjnpdx

    tjnpdx Banned

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    Good in their time relative to whatever else (wasn’t) available. Duplicitous, deceitful in their inherent efficacy and safety status, now as surely as then.
     
  5. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    A quick read of a few of those and its clear that not all of them even support support your claims, maybe you should read them yourself rather than just reading the titles.

    I don't deny that in a small portion of the population these issues exist, but as most of these articles you link show it is an absolute miniscule % and none of these claim more than a probable relationship. NONE find a relationship between suicidality and finasteride. You also fail to consider the fact that depression, fatigue and libido or erectile dysfunction issues cannot automatically be directly linked to use of finasteride. Hairloss itself can generate depression and thereby fatigue or lidibo issue symptoms.

    For example in one of the suicide and depression studies

    "The absolute increases in the event rates for these 2 outcomes were 17 per 100 000 patient-years and 237 per 100 000 patient-years, respectively."

    Quite frankly this is trivial, and if you're using it as an argument to not even experiment with finasteride at perhaps a low dose or in the short term to see if sides occur, you're a moron.

    A few of these studies you linked say absolutely nothing at all with no figures or statistics so they weren't even worth linking and you clearly only did so because of their titles. The neuroactive steroid ones findings doesn't have a conclusion on the actual effects of this. Again a waste of a link.

    If it's a matter of a few % chance of side effects on the drug and potentially 1/1000 for sides remaining after coming off, that is in my opinion a chance worth taking for most people. A few of those linked studies also assert that the problems actually DECREASE after prolonged usage of the drug, which again could infer links between hairloss itself and perhaps the reduction of it with depression, libido and fatigue symptoms.

    Your understanding of "science" is throwing studies with titles that imply your argument has grounding without bothering to read them and properly interpret them. These also don't form the conclusion that finasteride should be avoided. They are ALL talking about occurrences of strong side effects in the range of a few %, which again only someone with no scientific understanding would infer that finasteride is purely to blame.
     
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  6. dermrafok

    dermrafok Established Member My Regimen

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    Anyway, it was published, I think we should not underestimate it...I will not offend you, you are trying to defend a treatment that really is what it is. An old treatment with very poor results. And more than 1% of side effects. I think IMHO: Of 10 people taking Finasteride 5 have side effects...Nobody likes Finasteride.
     
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  7. tjnpdx

    tjnpdx Banned

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    Can I ask: Do you believe that finasteride leaves neurochemical function unaltered?
     
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  8. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    It's not perfect but it's the best we have, and for most people they're better off opting for that than engaging in false hope. Certainly on percentages people are better off giving it a shot despite the potential sides rather than letting themselves go bald without an alternative.

    I'd rather not be on it either, but it's a few hundred a year for brand name, no sides to speak of and it's worked an absolute charm up to this point.
     
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  9. tjnpdx

    tjnpdx Banned

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    That's great that it works for you with minimal sides. But, if you're being honest with yourself, no one should be taking the stuff. It's a personal choice, we all weigh the risks. But really, the stuff can grow you boobs and shrink your genitals: it's just not a good treatment. Not to mention the fact that it's not like balding is as simple as: Less DHT == more hair.
     
  10. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    It certainly alters neurochemical function but I haven't seen any data that makes any claims as to what effect that is likely to have, give an explanation for it, whether it effects every person the same, whether some aren't effected at all, or long term and short term ramifications on someones life.

    I genuinely have not experienced any noticeable changes on it and many others are in the same boat. If it alters neurochemical function but this has no easily visible effect on most people, then it's silly to worry about it. It's something that SOUNDS bad, how bad it actually is in practice is a different story and I haven't seen good data on this.

    I do know however that for the vast majority with hairloss on a % basis they are better off taking it and unlikely to experience noticeable issues in the short or long term.
     
  11. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    When there's better treatment (or even a soon incoming treatment that appears a valid replacement) I'll direct people including myself to it, for the moment that unfortunately isn't the case.
     
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  12. JeanLucBB

    JeanLucBB Senior Member My Regimen

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    If you want to know why I'm so adamant about it, first of all its a matter of statistical fact that most are better off trying it and unlikely to suffer side effects in the short or long term. Most importantly for me personally though I listened to doomsayers on forums who clearly hadn't read the data and didn't think logically or analytically about it, and didn't touch finasteride properly until I was diffuse norwood 3 rather than when I knew about it at norwood 1.5 with no visible issues.

    Listening to doomsayers cost me multiple norwoods and the majority of my density, as well as transplant money and more for a likely second procedure I will have soon. Finasteride costs me a few hundred a year and absolutely no issues, as is the case for most people. Visibly thickened and stopped further miniaturisation. I'm not the only one that lost out in this regard, the majority of people who don't take finasteride when they are balding will lose out based on the inarguable statistics.
     
  13. dermrafok

    dermrafok Established Member My Regimen

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    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29090364

    Hematuria and Hematospermia Associated with the Use of Finasteride for the Treatment of Androgenic Alopecia: A Case Report.

    @JeanLucBB I think this interests you ... And a lot. It could be said that you also want the arrival of new treatments...that's true?
     
  14. nypdz

    nypdz Member My Regimen

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    I have been in touch with Farmacia Parati regarding topical finasteride. They already have topical dutasteride 0.5% and 1% just like their finasteride and can supply it with a valid prescription.
     
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  15. techkid

    techkid New Member

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    Are you planning on trying it? I probably will when I'm finished with my H&W topical finasteride. I have two bottles left.
     
  16. nypdz

    nypdz Member My Regimen

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    Very tempted but not yet. Being patient with how many things I try at a time.
     
    #256 nypdz, Jan 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  17. MedicinallyCompetent

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    It's not hard to apply, due to its gel-like consistency it's easier than Rogaine foam or liquid. The difficult part is there's not very much of it in a single application. My next batch I'm going to be inquiring about getting 2 bottles of .5% so I can apply twice the amount across my diffusely thinning head but result in the same systemic effect.
     
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  18. FutureSaitama

    FutureSaitama Experienced Member My Regimen

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    Seems like a solid plan, ill try to follow it myself. Thanks dude !
     
  19. initial

    initial New Member My Regimen

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    Any update on this mate? Thinking of starting topical finasteride fairly soon, interested to hear if you've had any sides early on. Cheers.
     
  20. MrV88

    MrV88 Experienced Member My Regimen

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    Just for the sake of it and to hail the insanity if the forum:

    Rabble rabble rabble
     
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