Discussion in 'New Research, Studies, and Technologies' started by Pavi, Nov 7, 2017.
check it out....
Damn their topical results are so good they're not prescribing oral finasteride anymore, how can you get this from the US?
Hanson is back for a re-union world tour. Supporting is up & coming Chinese phenomenon Wong.
They are located in Canada, and I think their topical finasteride needs
So there's no way to get it unless you live in Canada? Damn I though the US was the greatest country on earth.... rip
I don't understand how silicone will keep the drug in the scalp?
"Our current topical Finasteride (patent pending) is a liposomal formulation which has been modified by the attachment of silicone particles to the liposomes .
The silicone is unabsorbable and forms a fine mask -like structure on the scalp . The technology is not unlike medical patch technology. The finasteride forms a depot in the scalp with a slow even release into the scalp . There is little of the peak and trough pattern as seen with the oral form .
Serum Finasteride levels are reduced by approximately 94% compared with the oral form . Serum DHT levels are reduced in the order of 30% (compared with 70% with oral)."
Hmm... There are some cons to sillicones. You need harsh shampoos to remove it and using it in conjunction with other topicals will become very very difficult. Let's not forget that sillicones make the hair look heavier and thus thinner.
Could be interesting, but do they have published real results ? I mean trial results with various rates of effectiveness and adverse effects ? Because just this blog page...i'm still doubtful
By not prescribing oral finasteride, Hasson and Wong, will make a fortune on topical finasteride as all their patient can only get it from them. Topical will be much more costly than oral too but I would still make the investment if it meant less systemic absorption. I wonder if they have any cases where someone switched from oral to topical.
Jep. I must say that I am impressed by the low serum levels but without some additional data there is not really any reason to get our hopes up yet.
- How about scalp dht levels? If they are just as low as the serum dht we might as well use topical SP.
- 800 people seems like a lot. But did they try oral finasteride before as well? What are their results?
- How often should it be applied? Rubbing sillicones on your head daily will be terrible for scalp (and thus hair) health.
I remember them talking about this back in March 2015, they had issues selling to America, not sure if that's changed.
they say there are no adverse effects ( understand : no adverse effects anymore)...
That explains why they were selling different concentrations with their last formulation (0,25 > 2,5%).
anyway let's wait for the results I guess.. this could be a good addition to any regimen. If we dont have any new molecules, let's tweak what we currently have *sigh*
problem should probably be the price now....If it's 50$/month for just finasteride...
It's probably bullshit. They don't show good data and at least with their formulation from a year ago, there are plenty of people online saying they got sides regardless, and meanwhile when I call them, their receptionist parrots the same thing, "nobody has ever gotten side."
Also it is fucking expensive. More expensive than propecia, at least last I checked.
Like, whatever man. Now this is an actual scam, imo.
What's their test for sides, "nobody complained"? Come on now. And if you remember the shitty data they got from that Italian university to back their claim about much less systemic absorption, then you would remember that the data was indeed, very shitty.
Agree, this is still finasteride after all, will always be a medieval shit
Still waiting for a real topical anti-androgen like CB-03-01
Like Bryan said one day
"A properly-designed antiandrogen doesn't block 5a-reductase. It blocks androgen receptors."
Blocking 5a-reductase to tackle hair loss, is like killing a fly with a bazooka
Maybe I can help in this thread.
As you may know, the italian forum BelliCapelli is linked tight to Hasson&Wong. Indeed, the founder BOLA is the private consultant of the two canadian surgeons. Scrolling back on the forum, I read the initial discussion, which dates back to 2015. After a bunch of posts, it ended for years; I remember some users of this forum (HairLossTalk.com) tried and reported their experience on some threads, basically saying that at the end the systemic absorption was cumulative, and so a lot of them experienced the same sides as Propecia's ones and Proscar's. Neither on BelliCapelli nor on IESON this product gained a spot on the suggested therapies, until 7 months ago, when BOLA, after getting some data from Hasson, revived that discussion saying that after seeing the extraordinary results from the gel on Hasson's patients, he decided himself, after 10 years of Propecia, to switch to the gel.
It seems that originally the formulation was totally made by the surgeons' clinic, and was created because after the last researches about the risks of finasteride, a lot of their patients were abandoning the therapy or chickening out on their transplant. So it was given under a special prescription to them. Then, after the consults here in Italy in the last years, he decided to try to market it also in Europe. He gave the formulation to Farmacia Parati in Milan, and because he did not file a patent for that, the product could only have been - and still is - a galenic. Then, the pharmacy, after carrying some studies on it, elaborated a new formulation, using the liposomes (yes, the kind used by Brotzu for his lotion) to avoid systemic absorption and to enhance effectiveness in situ. Studies were carried in vivo by the italian University of Milan, results published in this study:
And another study on the pharmacokinetics of the gel:
Then we have to remember that finasteride in that gel is at 2.5% which is an incredibly high dose. The pharmacy said the doctor gave them the quantities of Finasteride to use, and asked them for something that could reduce systemic absorption, so the pharmacy thought of liposomes. There was also a misunderstanding about the quantities absorbed: at 2.5%, the doctor said it was like taking 1 pill of Propecia per week, while the study clearly show it is in reality equivalent to one pill every 3,42 days. Liposomes are really important, because, since maths is not an opinion, at 2.5% of concentration, with 1ml you're putting on your head 25mg of Finasteride per dose, almost equivalent to an entire pack of Propecia...
Also, as far as I know, initially this gel was created only for those who suffered from sides using the oral version: the same Hasson said this, and he was still prescribing the traditional Propecia to his patients. Then, after seeing the results of the few who were using the gel, both BOLA and Hasson, who used Propecia for 10 years and Proscar for 16 years respectively, decided to switch to the gel, mainly because they thought the gel gave even better results to few -- even though this point was debated a lot. It seems that the liposomal version enhanced also the "timing" of the results, many patients said they saw improvements after two months. The posology is 3 days per week generally (not even everyday).
This incredible data were given 7 months ago when BOLA revived the discussiom on the forum; he also wrote an arcticle providing some photos given by Hasson himself. For what he says, the surgeon had in cure almost 300 patients who all experienced sides on the oral version. The doctor said nobody experienced sides with the gel. Unfortunately, this is in contrast with numerous witnesses of this forum users and also with some of BC: it seems that a lot of users who tried the gel suffered from the same sides, even though more time was needed to notice them than the traditional Propecia. The surgeon always repeated his patients had no sides while on it.
Also, as far as I've read, Hasson does not recommend the gel to those who still have a lot of density, and says that the oral version should always be the first choice. If he is now only prescribing the gel, is, in my opinion, overmonetizing the small market he obtained, also because the price of 1 month of the gel from Parati is 50€, plus 13€ for transport fees (which is WAY OVERPRICED for both the costs of the substances and for the time needed to create it). In Italy we say that the doctor is really "marching on the price"
The official arcticle WITH SOME PHOTOS written by BOLA is here, there's the option for the English language on top of the page:
What is wrong with all of this stuff, is the fact we have like zero feedbacks from the users. In this forum, I remember it was abandoned totally since 2 years ago when a lot of users confirmed the same side effects; I do not know however if the formulation was already enhanced by the incapsulation into liposomes. But even on the italian forums we lack anecdotes on this gel. Some are trying, some abandoned, others are doing fine with no photos and only one or 2 are happy and provided some more photos:
I have to say that those results are similar to the few best responders of Applemets Hair's test of IESON - which I will summarize for you when it will end and the discussion on this site will be reopened by the mods.
However, back to the gel, in my opinion 63€ per month is too fucking much, also because the sides' aspect is not well known since we lack users' experiences. Now, since I am a student and I don't have any personal incomes, I don't feel good with myself with spending another 200€ to get a prescription (is strictly needed!!) and to try for some months this gel, also because since I had major sides with the oral version, I don't feel safe anymore to experiment on myself anything Finasteride-related. But what I think is that this undoubtedly works on an extent; since we need experiences from the forums, I would encourage who is disposed/desperate to try this stuff and create a log here in the apposite section. Also, on a side note as requested by many users who send me PMs, because our Androgenetic Alopecia does not wait anyone, not FIDIA, nor Shiseido, nor Tsuji, and I am more interested about having anecdotes of actual treatments already working and available now or soon than a review of the bullshits throwed out or published by Cotsarelis and that Follica joke about the new explanations of the delays of their dermaroller+Minoxidil 2.0.
So if anyone is interested in biting this bullet, it should read the two big discussions and reports on BelliCapelli, here are the links for everything, please read before jumping on the gun:
If it really is 2.5% concentration then that's absolute shit!
as 7th sense pointed out, that amounts to 25mg of product being applied. They claim circulating Finasteride blood levels are reduced by 96%, which means 4% goes systemic. Ta-Da, that's equivalent of taking a 1mg dose!(if we trust their numbers). Even if the concentration was .1% which amounts to 1mg topically, that would mean ~.04 mg goes systemic, still a potent effect.
REDUCTION IN SCALP DHT LEVELS
The figures are pretty clear -- even .05 mg finasteride strongly suppresses 5ar2 activity. My point is that the only way that their topical can work is ONLY IF IT GOES SYSTEMIC.