SM04554 Phase 2 results

[Swoop]

Minoxidil is something like +30%~ average increase in hair count in the same time period. Also, minoxidil actually works with a handicap because of the low response rate. People who actually respond well are above +50%~ with minoxidil.

There is no sugarcoating. This is total sh*t. And, no it won't maintain anything.

 

[nameless]

Wait hair cloning. With a new approach this is a step in the right direction.
- > Regrowth.
Waiting a longer term result could be interesting.

Is this underline supposed to be a link?

 

[baldowaldo]

Such "Groundbreaking", much wow.

And I was almost convinced that this would give better results than minoxidil.

 

[hellouser]

Minoxidil is 30%~ average increase in hair count on average. Add to that that minoxidil works with a handicap because of the low response rate. People who actually respond well are above 50%~.

There is no sugarcoating. This is total sh*t. And, no sorry it won't maintain your head.

I don't believe that 30-50% increase. That's basically going from 6,000 hairs to 9,000. That's a BIG difference.

 

[I.D WALKER]

I may be looking into cryogenic intervention if I don't see real treatment option(s) by late 2017.

 

[buckthorn]

Can't say I'm impressed with 10% regrowth in GENERAL, however..... this is after only THREE months. That's not even a full hair cycle! I'd be far more interested to see what results are like when treatment is continued for 12 months. 3 months isn't enough data, but 10% increase is 'good' in that short of a time span. Do you guys expect hair transplants to work that fast in 3 months?

I remember Dr. Naughton from Histogen mentioned that treatment is important during a particular phase of the hair cycle. So, there's that. Anyway, 3 months results aren't anything to be worried about.

I am with Hellouser on this one. 90% of the people responding negatively on this post are the same people that react with, "give finasteride at least 12-14 months before assessing it's impact"... and you completely dismiss this after just three months? How do we know that because of the application hairs are cycling and that there might be additional growth with more time?? maybe IDK what I am talking about, because I know nothing about this treatment, but why are they even presenting results after such a short period of treatment??

 

[hellouser]

I may be looking into cryogenic intervention if I don't see real treatment option(s) by late 2017.

2 years away, while bald cure is 30 years away.

 

[nameless]

Minoxidil is +30%~ average increase in hair count in the same time period. Also, minoxidil actually works with a handicap because of the low response rate. People who actually respond well are above +50%~ with minoxidil.

There is no sugarcoating. This is total sh*t. And, no it won't maintain anything.

One second Swoop, two things:

1) if SM04554 can arrest hair loss for ALL patients and give 10% more hair to 100% of patients that would be better for most of us than minoxidil.

2) There is still the issue that these 3 month of treatment results may improve over 12 months of use.

 

[hellouser]

I am with Hellouser on this one. 90% of the people responding negatively on this post are the same people that react with, "give finasteride at least 12-14 months before assessing it's impact"... and you completely dismiss this after just three months? How do we know that because of the application hairs are cycling and that there might be additional growth with more time?? maybe IDK what I am talking about, because I know nothing about this treatment, but why are they even presenting results after such a short period of treatment??

Interestingly, MOST treatments show that much increase! Even Replicel had about 15% increase after only 6 months... but do we really expect follicles to grow to full size and then grow terminal hair on top of that time length within 6 months?! It's pretty crazy. When I spoke with Dr. Lee Buckler in Toronto back in January at the JETRO presentation, even he said he wished he could have seen the 12 month results, but they don't have them. I think it may have had something to do with FDA regulations that gave them only 6 month results and that was it.

 

[bbbeeeppp2]

Can't say I'm impressed with 10% regrowth in GENERAL, however..... this is after only THREE months. That's not even a full hair cycle! I'd be far more interested to see what results are like when treatment is continued for 12 months. 3 months isn't enough data, but 10% increase is 'good' in that short of a time span.

I remember Dr. Naughton from Histogen mentioned that treatment is important during a particular phase of the hair cycle. So, there's that. Anyway, 3 months results aren't anything to be worried about.

Plus, as someone else mentioned they weren't on any anti-androgens during that time and SM04554 probably won't do anything to stop the progression of male pattern baldness. Significantly significant growth in just 3 months while the presence of DHT was still signalling follicles to miniaturized. That's not that bad.

I honestly don't see the point in treatments which use growth signaling pathways if they're not going to inhibit the negative pathways as well. You're just fighting an up hill battle that way. We need something which targets as many positive pathways as possible while inhibiting the negative. Histogen seems way more likely to succeed because they're a bunch of growth factors including wnt.

 

[buckthorn]

Minoxidil is something like +30%~ average increase in hair count in the same time period. Also, minoxidil actually works with a handicap because of the low response rate. People who actually respond well are above +50%~ with minoxidil.

There is no sugarcoating. This is total sh*t. And, no it won't maintain anything.

Hey swoop, how is 30% increase in 3 months even physiologically possible?

 

[hellouser]

One second Swoop, two things:

1) if SM04554 can arrest hair loss for ALL patients and give 10% more hair to 100% of patients that would be better for most of us than minoxidil.

2) There is still the issue that these 3 month of treatment results may improve over 12 months of use.

Don't forget compounding; SM + minoxidil + finasteride + whatever else and perhaps even including the Prostaglandin approach that Swisstemples is taking.

Those would be interesting results seeing how we could tackle hair loss from so many angles.

 

[I.D WALKER]

2 years away, while bald cure is 30 years away.

 

[buckthorn]

Interestingly, MOST treatments show that much increase! Even Replicel had about 15% increase after only 6 months... but do we really expect follicles to grow to full size and then grow terminal hair on top of that time length within 6 months?! It's pretty crazy. When I spoke with Dr. Lee Buckler in Toronto back in January at the JETRO presentation, even he said he wished he could have seen the 12 month results, but they don't have them. I think it may have had something to do with FDA regulations that gave them only 6 month results and that was it.

You know how when you're a positive responder to treatments, you will initially either a) shed hair first, (sometimes after MONTHS, during telogen) so the follicle cells can reconstruct and cycle back into anagen and grow a terminal hair or b) catch a follicle at the perfect moment, and allow it to regrow a terminal hair... Well, why would we expect this to be any different?? Perhaps I am missing something here, and yes, it may not show increased yields after more time, BUT isn't MORE time absolutely required to scientifically assess it's efficiency?? Y'all know more about follicle physiology than me so please -

WHY are you all 100% doubtful??

 

[hellouser]

You know how when you're a positive responder to treatments, you will initially either a) shed hair first, (sometimes after MONTHS, during telogen) so the follicle cells can reconstruct and cycle back into anagen and grow a terminal hair or b) catch a follicle at the perfect moment, and allow it to regrow a terminal hair... Well, why would we expect this to be any different?? Perhaps I am missing something here, and yes, it may not show increased yields after more time, BUT isn't MORE time absolutely required to scientifically assess it's efficiency?? Y'all know more about follicle physiology than me so please -

WHY are you all 100% doubtful??

Man, when I had my results with minoxidil and finasteride, it took like 6 months to go from initial shed to final result. But hey, a decent increase in only 3 months, that DOESN'T show a shed, that's somehow bad? Most people would LOSE hair from the shed in 3 months I would imagine!

 

[nameless]

I'd be willing to bet all of my remaining hair that it's going to be required as continued use like minoxidil and finasteride. So yeah, 12 month results are far more interesting than a petty 3 months, but 10% in 3 months ONLY is actually decent. I don't know why they only did 3 months, that'd be a question for Dr. Yazici.

If the endgame is continued use and the company/FDA are just taking baby steps in the duration of use then these results would be excellent if ALL patients arrested their hair loss and got 10% regrowth in 3 months.

 

[I.D WALKER]

I suppose we're more gun shy than doubtful. Years of disappointment admixed with desperation = demoralization.

 

[nameless]

I don't believe that 30-50% increase. That's basically going from 6,000 hairs to 9,000. That's a BIG difference.

Some very low number of patients get startling results.

Most people using minoxidil do not even get discernible results. I got nothing from it.

 

[baldowaldo]

Do we have any information more than what's in the Forbes article?

 

[buckthorn]

When will we have more specific information and a more detailed analysis on this?