Skin Needling
- Thread starter joseph49853
- Start date
masculineyourheart
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 1
ja, und nein.
masculineyourheart
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 1
I've been needling roughly two months now, 4-5 times a week, with a .75mm roller and haven't seen any benefit from it as yet. No hair growth, no thickening, and still have the annoying feeling of irritation.
I do still have some faith in this method as a baby follica that's not too demanding. Take my lack of success with a grain of salt; I'd find it difficult to put a lack of success down to needling at the moment as I've changed my topical application around too much to give an accurate assessment on whether or not needling will eventually be beneficial. I'm still unhappy with my topical but I'll settle for what I have now.
My current regimen (minus supplements):
needling 4-5 times a week
retin-a cream 1-2 times a week
minoxidil with caffeine and milk thistle extract (for the EGFR inhibition) added to it once a day, at night
I had to throw the finasteride out of the mix because of side effects and because my hair bloody hated it. Ideally, I'd like to throw in some stem cell proliferators, some green tea extract (for the DHT) and whatnot but since I don't have access to them at the moment, I have to utilise what I've got.
I'm listening to the soundtrack to 'The assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford' while I'm typing this out and damn it's good.
I do still have some faith in this method as a baby follica that's not too demanding. Take my lack of success with a grain of salt; I'd find it difficult to put a lack of success down to needling at the moment as I've changed my topical application around too much to give an accurate assessment on whether or not needling will eventually be beneficial. I'm still unhappy with my topical but I'll settle for what I have now.
My current regimen (minus supplements):
needling 4-5 times a week
retin-a cream 1-2 times a week
minoxidil with caffeine and milk thistle extract (for the EGFR inhibition) added to it once a day, at night
I had to throw the finasteride out of the mix because of side effects and because my hair bloody hated it. Ideally, I'd like to throw in some stem cell proliferators, some green tea extract (for the DHT) and whatnot but since I don't have access to them at the moment, I have to utilise what I've got.
I'm listening to the soundtrack to 'The assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford' while I'm typing this out and damn it's good.
joseph49853
Experienced Member
- Reaction score
- 12
I'm still experiencing major regrowth, in order of greatest success: amazing temples and hairline, great at the crown, and vertex with minimal regrowth. What's most remarkable is how a fair percentage of these hairs, especially at the temples, first appeared as thick and fully terminal -- skipping the vellus stage entirely. I hope this is clearly and fully illustrated in my posted pictures, which was the true objective.
To answer the few questions coming my way, forum and PM... I've been shooting for a percentage of between 1-3% with most topical ingredients. I use Glisodin, which is the most stable form of SOD. I stopped using lithium orotate, as was giving me all the symptoms of hypothyroidism. I had to supplement with zinc and selenium for a few days to reverse the condition. This just goes to demonstrate the amplified systemic effect of topicals when included with things like cell membrane penetrators and bioavailability enchancers: MSM, orotic acid, bioperine, DMSO etc.
I now use orotic acid, which likely has the greatest benefit of raising uridine levels. Uridine is found in greatest abundance in the germ and dermal papillia during anagen stages. I'm also considering magnesium orotate, or better yet triacetyluridine... which has been shown to increase uridine levels 5-10x greater than pure uridine alone. I'm starting to believe uridine has the greatest function in mitochondrial disorders... something that idebenone, carnitine, milk thistle, vitamin E complex, and vitamin C etc. tries to address but fails overall.
My topical now includes: Glisodin, orotic acid, carnosine, green tea extract, grape seed extract, bioperine, melatonin, caffeine, methylcobalmin, msm, nattozimes, vitamin D3 and a mixed vitamin E, and obviously minoxidil. I'm also looking for a better vasodilator than niacin, perhaps arginine, gingko, or vinopectine.
I agree with the person who said wounding/needling without the proper compliment of topicals is far less beneficial. In fact, I was hoping to gather enough researchers/experimenters to participate in finding the most optimal needling protocol. I'm afraid a much better thread where people are more enthusiastic about needling can be found here:
http://www.regrowth.com/hairloss-forums ... =1&t=20964
To answer the few questions coming my way, forum and PM... I've been shooting for a percentage of between 1-3% with most topical ingredients. I use Glisodin, which is the most stable form of SOD. I stopped using lithium orotate, as was giving me all the symptoms of hypothyroidism. I had to supplement with zinc and selenium for a few days to reverse the condition. This just goes to demonstrate the amplified systemic effect of topicals when included with things like cell membrane penetrators and bioavailability enchancers: MSM, orotic acid, bioperine, DMSO etc.
I now use orotic acid, which likely has the greatest benefit of raising uridine levels. Uridine is found in greatest abundance in the germ and dermal papillia during anagen stages. I'm also considering magnesium orotate, or better yet triacetyluridine... which has been shown to increase uridine levels 5-10x greater than pure uridine alone. I'm starting to believe uridine has the greatest function in mitochondrial disorders... something that idebenone, carnitine, milk thistle, vitamin E complex, and vitamin C etc. tries to address but fails overall.
My topical now includes: Glisodin, orotic acid, carnosine, green tea extract, grape seed extract, bioperine, melatonin, caffeine, methylcobalmin, msm, nattozimes, vitamin D3 and a mixed vitamin E, and obviously minoxidil. I'm also looking for a better vasodilator than niacin, perhaps arginine, gingko, or vinopectine.
I agree with the person who said wounding/needling without the proper compliment of topicals is far less beneficial. In fact, I was hoping to gather enough researchers/experimenters to participate in finding the most optimal needling protocol. I'm afraid a much better thread where people are more enthusiastic about needling can be found here:
http://www.regrowth.com/hairloss-forums ... =1&t=20964
masculineyourheart
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 1
joseph,
The Regrowth thread you've posted is part of a current trend of posters trialling DIY follica at home. We've got a huge thread on it here as well. There's also plenty of stuff to find over at hairsite and probably hairlosshelp and wherever else people are discussing falling follicles. The follica patent is the offspring of earlier testing with needling by the same gfroup of people but a bit more extreme when it comes to trying it out for yourself at home. Still, it's one of the most promising treatments kicking around at the moment.
To be honest, the main reason I got started on needling was because of posts by your good self and tales of success from a complex but well thought out regimen. I'm grateful for all the information you've given, especially so considering you've had so much hair growth already you could probably sail off into the sunset without giving much more thought to the forum. However, having read through some of your older posts after getting excited by all the needling going on, you seem to have had the same success from when you were on finasteride alone, finasteride + minoxidil, finasteride + minoxidil + retin-a, all the way up till now. Each time you change something in your regimen you mention you've had amazing success everywhere but the vertex where regrowth is always minimal.
So I'm confused, if you have excellent success with each treatment you try, why do you keep changing them around? and if you had such success back with the old treatments to the point where you'd said you had better hair than in your 20's, how much better could your hair be now to suggest the regrowth is from the current set of topicals in your ever evolving regimen?
No disrespect to you joseph, I've learned a lot from your posts and the studies you've provided.
The Regrowth thread you've posted is part of a current trend of posters trialling DIY follica at home. We've got a huge thread on it here as well. There's also plenty of stuff to find over at hairsite and probably hairlosshelp and wherever else people are discussing falling follicles. The follica patent is the offspring of earlier testing with needling by the same gfroup of people but a bit more extreme when it comes to trying it out for yourself at home. Still, it's one of the most promising treatments kicking around at the moment.
To be honest, the main reason I got started on needling was because of posts by your good self and tales of success from a complex but well thought out regimen. I'm grateful for all the information you've given, especially so considering you've had so much hair growth already you could probably sail off into the sunset without giving much more thought to the forum. However, having read through some of your older posts after getting excited by all the needling going on, you seem to have had the same success from when you were on finasteride alone, finasteride + minoxidil, finasteride + minoxidil + retin-a, all the way up till now. Each time you change something in your regimen you mention you've had amazing success everywhere but the vertex where regrowth is always minimal.
So I'm confused, if you have excellent success with each treatment you try, why do you keep changing them around? and if you had such success back with the old treatments to the point where you'd said you had better hair than in your 20's, how much better could your hair be now to suggest the regrowth is from the current set of topicals in your ever evolving regimen?
No disrespect to you joseph, I've learned a lot from your posts and the studies you've provided.
joseph49853
Experienced Member
- Reaction score
- 12
Some of these topicals: stain, smell, don't work well in synergy with one another, have various competing properties and factors (some still unknown) which cancel one another out, are redundant etc. I'm trying to find the optimal combination using science, observation and intuition. That alone takes a lot of work. It's also takes A LOT of effort to maintain the complete regimen. I'm looking to eventually maximize my time and just enjoy life.
Anyway, I posted that 'needling' Regrowth.com link as an example of a very participatory event, where everyone is collectively active. On this thread it seems the onus remains squarely on me. Obviously, my message output wouldn't be deemed consistent in a scientific manner, when viewed as a whole. I've never even been one for methodical pictures or taking notes until recently.
Yet, if you 'are' taking notes, from memory: finasteride worked ok for me, but with a TONS of side effects; minoxidil worked much better especially at the hairline peak, but my hair looked thin and ratty; retin-a finally gave my hair the beginnings of a fuller, healthy and more luxurious look, but that too reached a limit. And realize that many of these treatments can intersect over months and muddle the issue. In the ensuing months following any needling attempts my temples had already began a fairly rapid retreat. It took a set of high-def wedding party pictures of myself to notice the damage. Needling w/ topicals has become that next logical extension, taking my progress to a higher plain. I'm now considering building myself a laser helmet. Again, I'll continue to take the most fruitful path wherever it leads, even if I have to build that path myself.
I'm also well aware of the main Follica thread here, and the science behind the patent. That's also a decent example of a contributory thread. I actually believe lasers, retin-a, needling, and dermabrasion work on some of the same principles, in magnitude from least to most risk. Certainly the idea behind needling-accupuncture has existed in Asian culture for thousands of years. So it would be foolhearty to think Follica's idea is unique, or that the same science couldn't extend to needling. We can also further a concept like needling into several different fairly-well established areas, including stem cell proliferators, such as Acell. And yet, in this thread we mostly can't get past acceptance of the method, still stuck in neutral. 188 posts later and this whole thread could be trimmed to a single page of relevant information.
Certainly OverMachoGrande isn't met with scorn and derision at Regrowth.com for his laser helmet attempts. And yet, if he does fail in his experiment, at least he will have made an attempt. We'll finally have more of the truth. Harie is another guy who seems not afraid to fall on his face. I'm tired of the woe is me posts, intermingling with those pretending to have all the answers. Great messages are often wasted here, like Michael Barry's, for instance. You just won't know the solution till you try.
Otherwise, you have a lot of otherwise intelligent (wily) people who fail to realize theories sometimes only work well on paper, not in practice. There's a singular closed mindset here toward a more patentable science, and sometimes away from basic logical supplementation. You can live your whole life without finasteride, but try saying the same for an essential nutrient such as vitamin C. And unless you're a practicing/examining doctor, especially a naturopath, you aren't going to be putting these theories to useful practice on a daily basis. And I won't go on a rant about the FDA and the cult of big pharma, but the system has been rotting since the mid-eighties. Big Pharma and Wall Street wants nothing more than to simply "manage your symptoms" from cradle to grave. If you're waiting for medical science to cure your diseases, especially in a safe and effective manner, good luck.
Anyway, my hairloss goals from two years ago (heck even four years ago) have changed. Firstly, I'm a few years older, and likely increasingly resistant to treatments. And now, I've too become greedy. No longer satisfied to cease thinning in tiny increments, I want to experience the LONGEVITY of a young head of hair, the fullest imaginable. Two years ago I started to think it was an impossibility. At that moment, I was perhaps subconsiously trying to head off the inevitable. Perhaps we're all experiencing a paradigm shift. Ten-fifteen years ago, I didn't even appreciate having such full thick hair. I was literally able to make motors cease on hair stylists' trimmers. For now, I'm simply working toward having a fully wet head without any detectable vertex thinning.
I would eventually like to be able to go months without any treatments and applications, or at least, with as little effort possible. This is my ultimate goal. Does this makes sense to anyone here besides me? I have tried elongating my periods of treatment cessation over the last year, and it's FINALLY holding more promise with each revisit. Perpetual hairloss treatments are similar to always carrying insulin as a diabetic, or someone with respiratory illness being dependant on a ventilator, or a defibrillator or pacemaker as a heart patient. Can you imagine living your entire life artificially supporting multitudes of otherwise involuntary systems and functions? I look forward to a day where hair grows a natural lifetime without any prompting.
Otherwise, I honestly never realized how much was lost at my temples, during my use of those accepted hairgrowth methods. And yeah, thinning/balding temples makes you look way old before your time. You sincerely don't realize exactly where your juvenile hairline started until you get honest with yourself, and maybe take precise measurements with a ruler and a camera. Again, if any poster here has time to make such an attempt, why not document it so everyone can benefit from your commitment. God bless you if you do. Me, I don't have as much time any longer to devote here.
Obviously, I'll revisit this thread whenever someone asks an honest, fair or thoughtful question, sometimes even if they don't. In the meantime, uridine or triacetyluridine seems like it might hold some promise. Whether it contains part of the answer, in synergy along with lasers and/or needling, only time will tell.
Anyway, I posted that 'needling' Regrowth.com link as an example of a very participatory event, where everyone is collectively active. On this thread it seems the onus remains squarely on me. Obviously, my message output wouldn't be deemed consistent in a scientific manner, when viewed as a whole. I've never even been one for methodical pictures or taking notes until recently.
Yet, if you 'are' taking notes, from memory: finasteride worked ok for me, but with a TONS of side effects; minoxidil worked much better especially at the hairline peak, but my hair looked thin and ratty; retin-a finally gave my hair the beginnings of a fuller, healthy and more luxurious look, but that too reached a limit. And realize that many of these treatments can intersect over months and muddle the issue. In the ensuing months following any needling attempts my temples had already began a fairly rapid retreat. It took a set of high-def wedding party pictures of myself to notice the damage. Needling w/ topicals has become that next logical extension, taking my progress to a higher plain. I'm now considering building myself a laser helmet. Again, I'll continue to take the most fruitful path wherever it leads, even if I have to build that path myself.
I'm also well aware of the main Follica thread here, and the science behind the patent. That's also a decent example of a contributory thread. I actually believe lasers, retin-a, needling, and dermabrasion work on some of the same principles, in magnitude from least to most risk. Certainly the idea behind needling-accupuncture has existed in Asian culture for thousands of years. So it would be foolhearty to think Follica's idea is unique, or that the same science couldn't extend to needling. We can also further a concept like needling into several different fairly-well established areas, including stem cell proliferators, such as Acell. And yet, in this thread we mostly can't get past acceptance of the method, still stuck in neutral. 188 posts later and this whole thread could be trimmed to a single page of relevant information.
Certainly OverMachoGrande isn't met with scorn and derision at Regrowth.com for his laser helmet attempts. And yet, if he does fail in his experiment, at least he will have made an attempt. We'll finally have more of the truth. Harie is another guy who seems not afraid to fall on his face. I'm tired of the woe is me posts, intermingling with those pretending to have all the answers. Great messages are often wasted here, like Michael Barry's, for instance. You just won't know the solution till you try.
Otherwise, you have a lot of otherwise intelligent (wily) people who fail to realize theories sometimes only work well on paper, not in practice. There's a singular closed mindset here toward a more patentable science, and sometimes away from basic logical supplementation. You can live your whole life without finasteride, but try saying the same for an essential nutrient such as vitamin C. And unless you're a practicing/examining doctor, especially a naturopath, you aren't going to be putting these theories to useful practice on a daily basis. And I won't go on a rant about the FDA and the cult of big pharma, but the system has been rotting since the mid-eighties. Big Pharma and Wall Street wants nothing more than to simply "manage your symptoms" from cradle to grave. If you're waiting for medical science to cure your diseases, especially in a safe and effective manner, good luck.
Anyway, my hairloss goals from two years ago (heck even four years ago) have changed. Firstly, I'm a few years older, and likely increasingly resistant to treatments. And now, I've too become greedy. No longer satisfied to cease thinning in tiny increments, I want to experience the LONGEVITY of a young head of hair, the fullest imaginable. Two years ago I started to think it was an impossibility. At that moment, I was perhaps subconsiously trying to head off the inevitable. Perhaps we're all experiencing a paradigm shift. Ten-fifteen years ago, I didn't even appreciate having such full thick hair. I was literally able to make motors cease on hair stylists' trimmers. For now, I'm simply working toward having a fully wet head without any detectable vertex thinning.
I would eventually like to be able to go months without any treatments and applications, or at least, with as little effort possible. This is my ultimate goal. Does this makes sense to anyone here besides me? I have tried elongating my periods of treatment cessation over the last year, and it's FINALLY holding more promise with each revisit. Perpetual hairloss treatments are similar to always carrying insulin as a diabetic, or someone with respiratory illness being dependant on a ventilator, or a defibrillator or pacemaker as a heart patient. Can you imagine living your entire life artificially supporting multitudes of otherwise involuntary systems and functions? I look forward to a day where hair grows a natural lifetime without any prompting.
Otherwise, I honestly never realized how much was lost at my temples, during my use of those accepted hairgrowth methods. And yeah, thinning/balding temples makes you look way old before your time. You sincerely don't realize exactly where your juvenile hairline started until you get honest with yourself, and maybe take precise measurements with a ruler and a camera. Again, if any poster here has time to make such an attempt, why not document it so everyone can benefit from your commitment. God bless you if you do. Me, I don't have as much time any longer to devote here.
Obviously, I'll revisit this thread whenever someone asks an honest, fair or thoughtful question, sometimes even if they don't. In the meantime, uridine or triacetyluridine seems like it might hold some promise. Whether it contains part of the answer, in synergy along with lasers and/or needling, only time will tell.
avi21
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 2
i've purchased the roller long time ago i'm not sure it's in the right length
it's 0.25mm needle length and it's from other brand
anyway , i now consist with it for 3 weeks and i will keep doing this
i have a good feeling about this one and god knows i tried alot of sh*t on my head
it's 0.25mm needle length and it's from other brand
anyway , i now consist with it for 3 weeks and i will keep doing this
i have a good feeling about this one and god knows i tried alot of sh*t on my head
GlasgowCelt
Member
- Reaction score
- 1
I skin needle my head very other day - I get so much satisfaction from it its unreal (I can feel the itch then just skin needle it)
Dip your skin needler into some green tea, (let it sit for 10 secs) and just run it all around your head, it feels unbeleivable.
I have also not had sex for 5 months.
I have a full thick head of hair. Norwood 1 jet black.
Somebody try it (and stick to it) and get back, skin needling IS the way forward.
Regards,
GC
Dip your skin needler into some green tea, (let it sit for 10 secs) and just run it all around your head, it feels unbeleivable.
I have also not had sex for 5 months.
I have a full thick head of hair. Norwood 1 jet black.
Somebody try it (and stick to it) and get back, skin needling IS the way forward.
Regards,
GC
some people here are saying its so "promising" and whatnot, but it seems to me that there hasn't been very much credible proof. there aren't any before-after pictures, and anyone who says he's gained from needling refuses to be precise about what kinds of gains were made. also, the handful of people who said they'd try it out and report their results never came back.
so, especially considering what a hassle this treatment can be, i don't see a good reason to jump on the bandwagon
so, especially considering what a hassle this treatment can be, i don't see a good reason to jump on the bandwagon
joseph49853
Experienced Member
- Reaction score
- 12
A few people have requested an update via e-mail. I rarely have time to post any longer. I've stayed committed to needling for a long time. And while not the cure, needling with a 1mm Dermaroller has been going wonderfully at a slow and steady pace. You have nothing to lose by trying one, as long as you keep a sterile instrument.
Just remember that everyone responds differently to different treatments.... same goes for propecia and minoxidil. The longer your hair has been gone the harder to get it back.
Anyhow I'm currently home for Christmas vacation. Maybe I'll post more info in a few days time.
Just remember that everyone responds differently to different treatments.... same goes for propecia and minoxidil. The longer your hair has been gone the harder to get it back.
Anyhow I'm currently home for Christmas vacation. Maybe I'll post more info in a few days time.
joseph49853
Experienced Member
- Reaction score
- 12
I just read back the entire thread. It's been a while. My apologies to everyone if I sounded like a dick sometimes. I was going through a really emotional time in my life and was set off by some harsh PMs. 2009 has been very good to me though. Here's hoping for a great 2010!
Joey Ramone
Member
- Reaction score
- 0
Thanks for the update dude. What's your regimen now? You always seem to have such a vast array of topical ingredients, it gets impossible to emulate.
Happy new year anyway
Happy new year anyway