Self Defense Systems

[Eureka]

Not true. This man was not well trained. A well trained individual has let go of his ego. That is part of the training. Someone who knows how to handle themselves does not need to boast. It simply is. It's not something to brag about. It isn't something to be praised for either, It just is.

This first man was not much of an instructor. Thus, he was not much of a fighter. Anyone who bullies a child is not a man of skill.

Second example. No reason. None whatsoever. That you try to knock someone out, with a roundhouse kick. This is what I am saying, This is flashy nonsense. Bruce lee, did not approve of this type of fighting. Bruce lee's brand of martial arts removed unnecessary moves. That is the art of intercepting fist.

A Bruce Lee vs Tyson fight would be interesting. Tyson in his glory years was quite the tank. However, Bruce Lee was an intelligent philosopher as well as a fighter. Tyson was brute strength. In a street fight, Bruce Lee would defeat Tyson. Because Bruce lee would use his mind. In a boxing match, Tyson would more then likely defeat Bruce Lee, because Lee would have to operate inside the confines of boxing.

As for the third one. Yes if someone's a very strong person. And they get ahold of a well trained fighter. It is not a favorable position for that fighter. However A. This man should be aware of his surroundings at all times. His senses should allow him to avoid being snuck up upon. No one has been able to sneak up on my Brother for 20 years.

What I am saying is that in a one on one match. Strength and size do not count more then skill and intelligence. You are acting as if in a fight the taller man always wins, or the heavier man always wins or the stronger man always wins. This is simply not true in my experience. The man who knows how to use his strength wins, the man who knows how to use someones size against them wins. Size can be as much a negative as a positive. Weight is the same. It is as much a weakness as a strength. Someone with the correct knowledge would systematically exploit those weaknesses.

With women and self defense. Most Male attackers are weak. Those type of predators do not expect a fight. So a kick to the groin. Or a heel to the foot. An elbow to the face. It's like the schoolyard bully. Who has never been hit. But once he is he becomes a coward. These situations often happen in alleyways or parkinglots. So you need only be able to get away to a more crowded area.

 

[s.a.f]

Not true. This man was not well trained. A well trained individual has let go of his ego. That is part of the training. Someone who knows how to handle themselves does not need to boast. It simply is. It's not something to brag about. It isn't something to be praised for either, It just is.

This first man was not much of an instructor. Thus, he was not much of a fighter. Anyone who bullies a child is not a man of skill.

Yes this guy was a complete dick but you cant dispute the fact that as a 6th dan blackbelt he was trained to the highest degree possible. Like I said he even claimed to be a world champion.

Second example. No reason. None whatsoever. That you try to knock someone out, with a roundhouse kick. This is what I am saying, This is flashy nonsense. Bruce lee, did not approve of this type of fighting. Bruce lee's brand of martial arts removed unnecessary moves. That is the art of intercepting fist.

A Bruce Lee vs Tyson fight would be interesting. Tyson in his glory years was quite the tank. However, Bruce Lee was an intelligent philosopher as well as a fighter. Tyson was brute strength. In a street fight, Bruce Lee would defeat Tyson. Because Bruce lee would use his mind. In a boxing match, Tyson would more then likely defeat Bruce Lee, because Lee would have to operate inside the confines of boxing.

Come off it a fight between a little 120lb guy and a big 220lb guy will only end one way. Tyson would have snapped bruce Lee like a twig. I suppose Bruce could also have beaten a 350lb gorilla since the gorilla has no fighting skills?

As for the third one. Yes if someone's a very strong person. And they get ahold of a well trained fighter. It is not a favorable position for that fighter. However A. This man should be aware of his surroundings at all times. His senses should allow him to avoid being snuck up upon. No one has been able to sneak up on my Brother for 20 years.

What I am saying is that in a one on one match. Strength and size do not count more then skill and intelligence. You are acting as if in a fight the taller man always wins, or the heavier man always wins or the stronger man always wins. This is simply not true in my experience. The man who knows how to use his strength wins, the man who knows how to use someones size against them wins. Size can be as much a negative as a positive. Weight is the same. It is as much a weakness as a strength. Someone with the correct knowledge would systematically exploit those weaknesses.

If there is a distinct advantage then yes the bigger stronger man will win in 99% of the time. I dont see how being bigger and stronger can be a negative in any fight.

With women and self defense. Most Male attackers are weak. Those type of predators do not expect a fight. So a kick to the groin. Or a heel to the foot. An elbow to the face. It's like the schoolyard bully. Who has never been hit. But once he is he becomes a coward. These situations often happen in alleyways or parkinglots. So you need only be able to get away to a more crowded area.

You seem to base your facts from watching martial arts movies, I'm pretty sure that if you asked a cop about it they'd tell you that rapists come in all shapes and sizes.
I'm pretty sure that if I were inclined to I could beat up almost any woman simply because as a male I'm bigger and stronger. And school bullies dont all become cowards when hit back the unfortunate truth is many of them bully because they can because they are bigger and stronger.

 

[CCS]

It is not always possible to tell how strong a guy is just by looking at him. Anyone who has been to a gym sees guys of all sizes lifting different sized weights. There are guys who look exactly like me and bench twice as much as I do. And guys who look just like me who bench half as much as I do. But in general, the big guys bench more. But I knew a 6'2" hiking woman who claimed to be athletic, but needed my help to get the 45 pound bar off her. Then there was a hot girl in my high school class who was 5'0", 90 pounds, and could bench 105 pounds, and she did not look muscular at all.

Point is strength and speed matter a lot, but you can't know who will win just by looking, since you don't know who is stronger. But generally a guy who is 220 pounds, and looks muscular, will be much stronger than a 120 pound guy.

I just remembered another example. My squad leader in the marines was lighter than me. My height, but thinner. He looked like Bruce Lee. Always wanted to grapple his squad members to teach them moves and practice his. It took him 45 second to beat me, typically. He'd grab a wrist or some other area with both hands to twist it and make me tap out. I did not know what he was going to do or how, but I just used common sense and reinforced that wrist with my other hand. I'd then quickly switch to a different joint, or try to get me in a position where I could not reach around to reinforce the joint he was going for, and after about 45 seconds he'd finally out do me and I'd tap out. He was a very well trained martial artist, or claimed to be. He went up against a 220 pound buff guy in our platoon and lost. I don't remember how bad. The big guy had not training, except he used to be a bouncer. But what was interesting was there were two big guys in our platoon, both equally buff and big, who worked out every day and did not drink or smoke. One of them totally dominated the other in the fight, beating him in 5 seconds. Just shows you can't predict stuff.

 

[Harie]

Like Mr. Miyagi said, "Best defense, no be there."

If you are thinking of becoming some bad-assed knife fighter, it's time to reassess your life goals before you get killed or end up in jail for murdering someone. Using a knife in a fight is usually a 1 way ticket to jail for murder. The use of a knife is not self defense unless you can prove and have others back you up that you used every single tactic you could to try and get out of the fight.

IE: You tried to calm the attacker down, you gave into the demands of the attacker (give me your $$, give me your car etc) you tried to walk/run away from the situation, but the perp followed and attacked you with a weapon...THEN your use of a knife is self defense.

If you are putting yourself into situations that require you to carry a weapon, you need to drastically change your lifestyle.

 

[patagonia]

Like Mr. Miyagi said, "Best defense, no be there."

If you are thinking of becoming some bad-assed knife fighter, it's time to reassess your life goals before you get killed or end up in jail for murdering someone. Using a knife in a fight is usually a 1 way ticket to jail for murder. The use of a knife is not self defense unless you can prove and have others back you up that you used every single tactic you could to try and get out of the fight.

IE: You tried to calm the attacker down, you gave into the demands of the attacker (give me your $$, give me your car etc) you tried to walk/run away from the situation, but the perp followed and attacked you with a weapon...THEN your use of a knife is self defense.

If you are putting yourself into situations that require you to carry a weapon, you need to drastically change your lifestyle.

completely agree.


the cemetery and jail are full of "tough" guys........ :whistle:

 

[Doug Douglas]

There was a guy on the varsity football team at my high school who couldn't have been a centimeter over 5' 6" tall, and he routinely kicked people's asses who were much bigger/taller than him. It's like they say: it's the size of the fight in the dog, not the other way around.

And what I mean by that is, some people were born with fighting ability, no matter what their size -- and some people acquire fighting ability. But the point is, it can be acquired, for the same reason a guy 5'6" can kick someone's *** who's 6' tall.

 

[Old Baldy]

It's not only that Doug, just because a man is short in stature doesn't mean he can't be very strong and coordinated. The man is just shorter, that's all.

When I fought Golden Gloves as a young kid, I knew shorter guys who were very strong and extremely well coordinated. Their height meant very little against ordinary men. It's only when both guys are equal in strength and coordination that height can play a role IMHO.

In fact, one of the fights that "told me" I wouldn't go far enough was against a shorter guy who beat me pretty easily IMHO. He was faster and every bit as strong.

Just like some of those young guys I see on that new style of fighting (i.e., the kick boxing sport). Those guys, some of whom are short in stature, could clean up the room with ordinary men IMHO. Height isn't all that crucial IMHO.

 

[CCS]

Like Mr. Miyagi said, "Best defense, no be there."

If you are thinking of becoming some bad-assed knife fighter, it's time to reassess your life goals before you get killed or end up in jail for murdering someone. Using a knife in a fight is usually a 1 way ticket to jail for murder. The use of a knife is not self defense unless you can prove and have others back you up that you used every single tactic you could to try and get out of the fight.

IE: You tried to calm the attacker down, you gave into the demands of the attacker (give me your $$, give me your car etc) you tried to walk/run away from the situation, but the perp followed and attacked you with a weapon...THEN your use of a knife is self defense.

If you are putting yourself into situations that require you to carry a weapon, you need to drastically change your lifestyle.

I agree with everything you said, except I don't think someone should have to give money to claim self defense. As long as you try to calm them down, and try to leave, I think they should not put you in jail for that. Though legally maybe that is what they do. F'd up. If someone is taking a baseball bat to your lambro, I think you should have the right to shoot them. But that probably does not fly. Either way, I avoid trouble rather than study knife fighting.

 

[CCS]

There was a guy on the varsity football team at my high school who couldn't have been a centimeter over 5' 6" tall, and he routinely kicked people's asses who were much bigger/taller than him. It's like they say: it's the size of the fight in the dog, not the other way around.

And what I mean by that is, some people were born with fighting ability, no matter what their size -- and some people acquire fighting ability. But the point is, it can be acquired, for the same reason a guy 5'6" can kick someone's *** who's 6' tall.

How buff was he? I doubt he weighted less than 150 pounds, and if he was 150, I bet he was super ripped.

 

[CCS]

It's not only that Doug, just because a man is short in stature doesn't mean he can't be very strong and coordinated. The man is just shorter, that's all.

When I fought Golden Gloves as a young kid, I knew shorter guys who were very strong and extremely well coordinated. Their height meant very little against ordinary men. It's only when both guys are equal in strength and coordination that height can play a role IMHO.

In fact, one of the fights that "told me" I wouldn't go far enough was against a shorter guy who beat me pretty easily IMHO. He was faster and every bit as strong.

Just like some of those young guys I see on that new style of fighting (i.e., the kick boxing sport). Those guys, some of whom are short in stature, could clean up the room with ordinary men IMHO. Height isn't all that crucial IMHO.

If you look back at the original posts, we never said height was important. We said "bigger, stronger" is important, and I added "speed". I think I even mentioned coordination some where. Practice can help coordination, but a lot of it is genetic. If you are insecure about your coordination, chances are your genetics are not super and you better not try to tango with someone whose genetics are. And you don't know until you get in the fight. Mostly likely if someone likes fighting, they are at least above average. That is why you are far wiser to use your head and not get in one.

 

[Eureka]

When I fought Golden Gloves as a young kid, I knew shorter guys who were very strong and extremely well coordinated. Their height meant very little against ordinary men. It's only when both guys are equal in strength and coordination that height can play a role IMHO.

+1

CCS. Bigger implies taller.

Your theories were that if your stronger you win. If your bigger you win.

Which is not true.

And the intelligent thing would be to avoid a fight. But some fights are unavoidable. And just as intelligence is required to avoid a fight, it also helps you win one.

You seem to base your facts from watching martial arts movies, I'm pretty sure that if you asked a cop about it they'd tell you that rapists come in all shapes and sizes.
I'm pretty sure that if I were inclined to I could beat up almost any woman simply because as a male I'm bigger and stronger. And school bullies dont all become cowards when hit back the unfortunate truth is many of them bully because they can because they are bigger and stronger.

My opinions on martial arts mainly come from my brother. I've yet to enter training myself. Although It is definitely something I will be doing. I've never been much into martial arts films. although Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon was good.

I'm not debating what size a rapist is. Although you will find that most rapes do not occur in a public area in broad daylight. A self defense for a woman can be helpful in the simple sense that it can give a woman confidence. Her first reaction may be to scream for help. Which is good. But when that fails knowing some basic combat techniques can be the difference between escaping a traumatic event shaken, and needing years of therapy.

Rapes do not just occur in alleyways. Many rapes occur between couples in the comforts of their own homes.

But many crimes do occur in alleyways. Rape being among them. Which is why when a city starts gating their alleyways at night the crime rate goes down.

No matter the scenario self defense can be a difference maker.

Have you ever had your foot stamped on with a heel? It hurts. Or kicked in the groin? Kick a rapist in the groin when he's aroused and I imagine you'll get a satisfactory result.

 

[Old Baldy]

Yes CCS, I thought you meant taller when you said bigger. Nevermind!!

 

[CCS]

Eureka, bigger does NOT imply taller. I have to disagree with you. I know too many buff short guys and skinny tall guys, and it would never cross my mind to say the tall guy is bigger.

As for getting your food stompted on, it may help, but if it is a small woman and the guy is wearing shoes, I doubt it would do much. There are guys out there who pay fat women to wear high heals and stand on them, including on their face and private parts, while the guy lays on the ground. Women don't weigh that much. Obviously they are better off fighting back and using the best moves they can.

I agree practicing fight does help, especially if someone is your size. Just saying if you are 120 pounds and the other guy is 200 pounds, you don't stand a chance even with all the training in the world.

I'm not 160. Once I build my muscle I'll be more like 160. And most guys are not 180 pounds of muscle. They are less, or it is just fat. So in my case, knowing how to fight would help me a lot. It is still 10x better to be an expert on avoiding situations. I'm not sure I'd give my wallet to an ungunned thug though. I would not attack him though.

 

[s.a.f]

I agree practicing fight does help, especially if someone is your size. Just saying if you are 120 pounds and the other guy is 200 pounds, you don't stand a chance even with all the training in the world.

:agree:
Theres a reason why they have weight divisions in fighting sports.
Eg Floyd Mayweather may be reputedly the best pound for pound boxer in the world, but as a junior welterweight (140lb) he would'nt stand a chance against even an average super middleweight (168lb).

 

[Doug Douglas]

I agree practicing fight does help, especially if someone is your size. Just saying if you are 120 pounds and the other guy is 200 pounds, you don't stand a chance even with all the training in the world.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. I've seen tiny guys kick the asses of huge guys; in fact, most of the kids who were the most aggressive fighters when I was in school were the average to small sized guys. You guys ever watch an NFL game? Wes Welker is 5 foot 9 inches, 185 pounds, and he routinely goes up against guys half a foot or more taller and many pounds heavier.

Weight classes in boxing are there because all those guys have made a living at fighting. In the real world a 120 pound guy who knows what he's doing is going to smack down the 200 pound guy every single time. I know because I've seen it happen.

 

[s.a.f]

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. I've seen tiny guys kick the asses of huge guys; in fact, most of the kids who were the most aggressive fighters when I was in school were the average to small sized guys. You guys ever watch an NFL game? Wes Welker is 5 foot 9 inches, 185 pounds, and he routinely goes up against guys half a foot or more taller and many pounds heavier.

Weight classes in boxing are there because all those guys have made a living at fighting. In the real world a 120 pound guy who knows what he's doing is going to smack down the 200 pound guy every single time. I know because I've seen it happen.

No chance, maybe if the 120lb guy is a superfit world class fighter and the 200lb guy is a fat unhealthy joe public who's never had a fight in his life, but we're not talking about that.

Take 2 average guys and 99% of the time the small guy would get flattened.
And football is not fighting a small athlete can outrun/outmanouvere a slow heavy linebacker but in a actual fight he'd probably lose.

Yes when I was at school the toughest guy in school was also actually pretty small but he was 'built' and he was naturally aggressive and had a natural ability to fight. (he's been in in prison most of the time since leaving school) There will always be exceptions.

The discussion is wether in most circumstances being bigger/more powerful is a great advantage in a fight and its obvious that it is.

 

[Doug Douglas]

The discussion is wether in most circumstances being bigger/more powerful is a great advantage in a fight and its obvious that it is.

I thought the argument was whether or not martial arts was hocus pocus, and whether training in martial arts could make someone who's lighter and shorter than his opponent the victor. I still believe that's the case.

 

[s.a.f]

[quote="s.a.f":tc0pms8o]The discussion is wether in most circumstances being bigger/more powerful is a great advantage in a fight and its obvious that it is.

I thought the argument was whether or not martial arts was hocus pocus, and whether training in martial arts could make someone who's lighter and shorter than his opponent the victor. I still believe that's the case.[/quote:tc0pms8o]

Well thats how it started off, but it soon moved onto the debate of what really gives an opponent an advantage, but yeah its all part of the same arguement.

My point is the average Joe taking up some sort of self defence/ martial arts training will not turn into some kind of hard case asskicker who can handle himself against almost anyone.
The guys out there that you dont want to mess with are usually born that way or are a product of their enviroment.

 

[oni]

Genki Sudo vs Butter Bean :whistle:

[youtube:3hc2i0zh]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2SqIkt0E7o[/youtube:3hc2i0zh]

 

[s.a.f]

Well thats 1 example, hardly a typical street fight scenario though is it? :whistle: How many real life fights have you seen that were determined by ankle locks?
Anyway Butterbean is just fat guy not a big guy if he was 300lb of muscle not fat it would have been a bit different.
[youtube:1az46noo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr31h8gFW7U[/youtube:1az46noo]

This is a more realistic example:
Hide destroys anyone around his own size he was unbeaten and won the WBO belt aged 20, but at under 210lbs he's just too small for the heavyweight division in his prime his only career losses were against guys who were much bigger (250lbs) but probably had less boxing ability.

For a better example watch his fight against Riddick Bowe.