Samumed Sm04554 Results Normalized To Baseline

[trialAcc]

How long have you been in this space bro? Ever seen companies actually deliver on time? I sure have not

This isn't your normal company in the space though. Most of the "cutting edge" stuff in recent decades have been smaller companies/start ups trying to get a single compound to market and failing to deliver on even pre-clinical studies, nevermind getting compounds into the higher phases of human trials. SM has already done all that, and has phase 3 completed, with 48 months of data to present. Just think of the significance of that compared to CB, where Casseopia plans to do a half-assed phase 3 trial that lasts 6 months when there are big questions of their drug past the 6 month mark. If the data is good they will be driving this thing to market pretty quickly.

Samumed has a 12 billion dollar valuation and a massive pipeline in regenerative medicine. Cancers, Arthritis, Alzheimers, solid tumors, pulmonary fibrosis, etc. They are not a lightweight and have the capital to actually get drugs to market.

 

[trialAcc]

Not sure why everyones so hyped about this, the phase 2 results weren't impressive at all. They continued to lose ground on vellus/non-vellus hair count up to the end of dosing. After cessation it then normalized to baseline. If anything it will be a good adjunctive treatment.

Anyone thinking this alone is going to regrow their hairline is delusional. Without a 5ar inhibitor you'd just be pissing in the wind.

I hope I'm wrong and they present actual images in march, but I don't think that will be the case.

I'm still waiting to here about exicure tbh. Been hyped for them since I saw their platform and the allergen investment.

What the hell are you talking about? How many hair treatments have results in under 90 days? Even the best treatments we have to date take 1+ year to evaluate full results.

Wait for the results, because you like everyone else here have no idea what to expect based on the early data that was largely used to establish a safety profile. All the phase 2 results showed was that it's safe and that it works in some capacity using an entirely different mechanism then the current market drugs. The extent to which, we will find out. For all we know we're about to get a new wonder drug, or at least a viable safe alternative to minoxodil that actually works for the majority of users.

 

[MrJolly26]

What do we know about the shedding effect with this new drug?

 

[trialAcc]

What do we know about the shedding effect with this new drug?

Zero.

 

[trialAcc]

SM04554 targets CLK and DYRK.

Seems like Samumed's other compound, SM08502 is a CLK inhibitor targeting Gastrointestinal Tumors.

The CLK inhibitor SM08502 induces anti-tumor activity and reduces Wnt pathway gene expression in gastrointestinal cancer models - PubMed

The Wnt/β-catenin signaling pathway is aberrantly activated in colorectal (CRC) and many other cancers, and novel strategies for effectively targeting it may be needed due to its complexity. In this report, SM08502, a novel small molecule in clinical development for the treatment of solid...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.samumed.com/medium/image/samumed-publishes-unique-mechanism-of-action-for-sm08502-in-targeting-gastrointestinal-tumors_644/view.aspx

Samumed also has a DYRK1A inhibitor compound; SM07883. A potential treatment for Alzheimer.

https://www.samumed.com/medium/image/samumed-announces-publication-of-preclinical-data-demonstrating-that-sm07883-is-a-potential-treatment-for-alzheimers-disease_610/view.aspx

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onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Their knee osteoarthritis treatment, lorecivivint works by inhibiting CLK2 and DYRK1A.

Modulation of the Wnt pathway through inhibition of CLK2 and DYRK1A by lorecivivint as a novel, potentially disease-modifying approach for knee osteoarthritis treatment - PubMed

Lorecivivint inhibition of CLK2 and DYRK1A suggested a novel mechanism for Wnt pathway inhibition, enhancing chondrogenesis, chondrocyte function, and anti-inflammation. Lorecivivint shows potential to modify structure and improve symptoms of knee OA.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Like I said, not a lightweight company! These guys are developing real therapeutics.

 

[Will Be an Egg in 5 years]

Loads of hair treatments produce at least minor results within 90 days in studies, pretty sure even sandalore outperformed this lol.

This isn't a wonder drug, its targeting a small fraction of cell signals involved in androgenic alopecia. The fact that you sound so offended is quite funny tbh.

The results are very good. I think you don't know how to read the reports, honestly

 

[Will Be an Egg in 5 years]

Maybe thats the case lol. I just don't see how a decrease in terminal hairs and slight increase is non-terminal hairs is very good.. but okay.

I'm not saying its going to do nothing, it wouldn't of made it this far if this was the case.
I just don't think this is going this miracle drug everyones expecting it to be. Have already said I think it will be a good addition, I'd be surprised if its an effective monotheraphy though.

The decrease was in the 0.025%, the 0.15% is the good one. But yeah, there's not miracle drug. It will be an addition as you said. But without the side effects. Probabbly a better minoxdill

 

[BigOl'BaldingHead]

I previously linked the full results presentation. Both saw a decrease in the trial when it came to terminal, only non-terminal had a very slight improvement.. It was only in the 'optimal population' which showed what would be called a cosmetic improvement.. basically a hand selected group chosen specifically to give a desirable outcome to the trial and bring in further investors for the next round of funding. Starting to think it might be you who doesn't know how to real trial data lol.

https://www.samumed.com/medium/imag...d-cosmetology-congress-03272019_664/view.aspx

Page 21.

But we are part of the optimal population. So why bother looking at the graph that does not give us the most meaningful data?

 

[pegasus2]

This isn't your normal company in the space though. Most of the "cutting edge" stuff in recent decades have been smaller companies/start ups trying to get a single compound to market and failing to deliver on even pre-clinical studies, nevermind getting compounds into the higher phases of human trials. SM has already done all that, and has phase 3 completed, with 48 months of data to present. Just think of the significance of that compared to CB, where Casseopia plans to do a half-assed phase 3 trial that lasts 6 months when there are big questions of their drug past the 6 month mark. If the data is good they will be driving this thing to market pretty quickly.

Samumed has a 12 billion dollar valuation and a massive pipeline in regenerative medicine. Cancers, Arthritis, Alzheimers, solid tumors, pulmonary fibrosis, etc. They are not a lightweight and have the capital to actually get drugs to market.

They value themselves at 12 billion, it's not an independent valuation so take that for what it's worth which is nothing. The CEO admits that if they did an IPO the market wouldn't value them at anything close to 12 billion. None of their drug candidates have proven to be successful yet, and this one is still questionable. Samumed seems more like the next Theranos than the next Regeneron. The CEO is a slick salesman, but I don't trust them.

 

[frank33]

I previously linked the full results presentation. Both saw a decrease in the trial when it came to terminal, only non-terminal had a very slight improvement.. It was only in the 'optimal population' which showed what would be called a cosmetic improvement.. basically a hand selected group chosen specifically to give a desirable outcome to the trial and bring in further investors for the next round of funding. Starting to think it might be you who doesn't know how to real trial data lol.

https://www.samumed.com/medium/imag...d-cosmetology-congress-03272019_664/view.aspx

Page 21.

Well, < 45 years old and NW4 is not that "hand selected" to give a desirable outcome.
Even minoxidil and finasteride will significantly vary their efficacy depending on the severity of the hair loss. It's not like they created an optimal population of NW1/2 in their twenties.
Furthermore, the trend is clearly positive and it it's possible it will continue to grow hair after 3 months.
We need data from a longer period of time to judge its efficacy.

 

[frank33]

"Samumed might present Phase III at the Incos congress (11-14 March): https://www.indercos.org/
They gave a presentation about their Phase II results at the same congress in 2019."

Here's a comment i've found in the comment section of the latest article from follicle thought.

Connecting the dots with the tweet from samumed where they said they would present data to a medical congress, and considering they took roughly two months in the past to release results, this could be accurate.

 

[Tom4362]

"Samumed might present Phase III at the Incos congress (11-14 March): https://www.indercos.org/
They gave a presentation about their Phase II results at the same congress in 2019."

Here's a comment i've found in the comment section of the latest article from follicle thought.

Connecting the dots with the tweet from samumed where they said they would present data to a medical congress, and considering they took roughly two months in the past to release results, this could be accurate.

Thanks for quoting me
I also posted it here:

Since we know the results will be published in March and they have presented phase II results at the Indercos congress before (https://www.samumed.com/medium/imag...logy-congress-indercos-03272019_675/view.aspx), we might get the results between 11-14 March: https://www.indercos.org/

 

[frank33]

Thanks for quoting me
I also posted it here:

I've missed it, sorry

Nice catch, by the way

 

[Frenchboy]

Guys, is it normal that I don't find the Samumed presentation on the program of Indercos ?

https://www.indercos.org/docs/indercos_program2021.pdf?a=123

 

[Tom4362]

Guys, is it normal that I don't find the Samumed presentation on the program of Indercos ?

https://www.indercos.org/docs/indercos_program2021.pdf?a=123

Then maybe it's a different conference

 

[trialAcc]

They value themselves at 12 billion, it's not an independent valuation so take that for what it's worth which is nothing. The CEO admits that if they did an IPO the market wouldn't value them at anything close to 12 billion. None of their drug candidates have proven to be successful yet, and this one is still questionable. Samumed seems more like the next Theranos than the next Regeneron. The CEO is a slick salesman, but I don't trust them.

You'd liken a company that has multiple drugs in phase 3 and other stages of actual human trials to a complete fraudulent company? You're free to have whatever opinion you'd like but I'm just letting you know that it's a bad take. Most drug candidates fail the clinic trial process for various reasons, it doesn't make it fraud.

It's a CEOs job to be the companies hypeman lol, it gets them notoriety and funding/partnership opportunities, and a self/equity based valuation isn't worth nothing, just less then a market driven one.

 

[pegasus2]

You'd liken a company that has multiple drugs in phase 3 and other stages of actual human trials to a complete fraudulent company? You're free to have whatever opinion you'd like but I'm just letting you know that it's a bad take. Most drug candidates fail the clinic trial process for various reasons, it doesn't make it fraud.

It's a CEOs job to be the companies hypeman lol, it gets them notoriety and funding/partnership opportunities, and a self/equity based valuation isn't worth nothing, just less then a market driven one.

So you think startups operate on a binary of completely legit or complete fraud with nothing in the middle. You're free to have whatever opinion you'd like but I'm just letting you know that it's a bad take. I've yet to see a successful phase 3 from Samumed. Until that happens they aren't worth 12 billion. I'm not saying they don't have real drugs with potential, but I think they're more interested in running trials just to raise funds than to actually get their drugs approved. There's no evidence that they truly believe any of their drug candidates will be successful. They don't need them to be, they're already getting rich off of dumb investors. If you feel so strongly about them go be one of those investors. Venture capital won't touch them.

 

[pegasus2]

there is no guarantee that any drug in the world will work. The mRNA technology from Biontech / moderna / curevac was also very uncertain for a long time. However, it is not that easy to conduct an FDA-approved study. their processes are all patented. In addition, the phase two study brought growth of 10 percent within 3 months. That’s very good. Even if it's not a cure, it's worth billions. Over 20 billion dollars are spent on hair loss products annually. if samumed can line up with fina and minoxidil, they're worth more than 20 billion.

RU58841 showed greater clinical efficacy than SM, but Prostrakan valued the market at less than 200 million. Samumed's drug will not be able to match the results of minoxidil, which is off-patent. There's a good chance it never comes to market, in which case it's not worth anything, just like their osteoarthritis drug that failed.

 

[pegasus2]

With a PhD in Engineering from Cambridge University, he certainly knows what he is investing in. Vickers has become one of the best-performing funds in the world.

"Over the years, we realized that risk can be split into three," Tan said. “Will the technology work?


finian fan, a world famous investor. He only invests in technologies that he understands. He seems to think highly of Samumed. it is definitely not a fraud. think it will be a very positive surprise. the phase 3 study will blow many people away

Long-term value comes from profitability, says Vickers Venture Partners' Dr. Finian Tan | KrASIA

In Venture Matters TV episode 8, Dr. Finian Tan, founder and chairman of Vickers Venture Partners, shared insights on the Chinese market and on what defines long-term value.

kr-asia.com

Again, I didn't say it was a fraud. Stop putting words in my mouth. If your investing strategy is to follow people who you think are good investors, then you're going to go bankrupt. Do I need to post a list of the "smart" people who invested in Enron? I'm seeing the same arguments in this thread that people used to use in the Brotzu thread. "ZOMG you're an idiot pegasus, Fidia is a huge company they wouldn't back a loser, and Dr. Brotzu is a respected doctor, he would never risk his reputation on a fraud."

Samumed's cancer drugs have more potential than this. Maybe one of them will be a success, and the company will make it big. Even in that event, that doesn't mean anything for their hair loss drug. This drug has to be evalueted on its own merits, and those merits don't justify the hope I'm seeing from some of you guys.

 

[Tom4362]

RU58841 showed greater clinical efficacy than SM, but Prostrakan valued the market at less than 200 million. Samumed's drug will not be able to match the results of minoxidil, which is off-patent. There's a good chance it never comes to market, in which case it's not worth anything, just like their osteoarthritis drug that failed.


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I really want the results of those damn trials...
Maybe even more than SM's results