S5 Cream: Does spironolactone Have Any Efficacy In Male Pattern Baldness?

[SteveTabernack]

Interesting.

Testimonials I've read suggest that response to RU is dose-dependent.

You were applying ~10 mg/day, the smallest dose I've heard anybody applying.

I had sides on a even smaller dose unfortunately

 

[inmyhead]

I had sides on a even smaller dose unfortunately

could it be placebo? i've tried 100mg a day, no results lol

 

[Admin]

Would the @Admin care to show us some before after pics??

Oh goody. More suspicious sounding comments. My favorite.

I have maintained my hair for 15 years. There are no before and after photos to show you.

I got on Propecia within 3 months of first noticing hair loss.

Sorry

 

[abcdefg]

Would you buy this new spironolactone cream from this web site then?

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Stop trying so hard to create FUD. There is no conspiracy. There is no secret information that you're going to squeeze from me to reveal some dramatic elephant in the room.

Why do you all act like this, instead of handle discussions intelligently and rationally?

You clearly implied that I'm not qualified to comment on spironolactone helping maintain my hair "because I have PFS". That alone was a dick comment to make. I didn't owe you an explanation. But of course, like most people on hair loss forums, you have to "call me out" and demand answers.

I don't know if I have PFS. I know I had side effects on Propecia. I know my T levels are lower 15 years later. Im also 42. Maybe it was propecia. Maybe it was the spironolactone. Maybe its the fact that im 42 now.

Maybe its the plastic water bottles with estrogens in them that I drink out of regularly.

Stop analyzing all the "things youve gathered from me over the years"... listing all my comments ... as if there's some corruption you're going to reveal, or that you need to 'call me out' again ...

There are no "devastating side effects of topical spironolactone" ...

Sorry guys I am just not in the mood today for the dysfunctional personalities and trolling that pervades these forums.

Not interested in it.

Believe what you want. You will anyways.

In all due respect, you're off base. You're accusing me of having a dysfunctional trolling personality but the fact is I've consistently tried to maintain a positive, constructive, transparent, presence; to reference my points; and to defend whichever side I believed was right at any given time rather than to pick sides. I defended you recently (if you remember) when Vincent was trying to get you to ban him and accusing you of being a pharmaceutical industry plant.

I'm not digging up your posts in order to embarrass you. I genuinely don't give a sh*t about embarrassing people, and in your case personally I'm grateful to you for setting up this site and for being a good writer. I care about information, results, facts. However, if you write posts that contradict other posts it's likely to cause cognitive dissonance in readers. Here is something you wrote recently, it was such an informative post that I remembered it two months later:

@RhinestoneHLT - it took me from 780 to 295.

I've been there for 15 years.

Note, I should add: I took it for 3.5 years and ignored all the (sometimes painful) symptoms out of fear of losing my hair. So I am not a guy who took it for a week, had no side effects, and then had some massive drop in hormone levels 3 weeks after quitting. I still don't know how that could happen. In my case it was absolutely an issue of ignoring ongoing damage that was being inflicted, and being too afraid to quit. In such a setting, I blame only myself for my outcome. I have numerous friends who take it (one has for 15 years now) and have had zero problems whatsoever. So I have to balance my opinion with that reality as well.

Never continued losing hair after I stopped. But I also have endured very little desire or motivation. In fact a big part of why hair loss talk went stagnant for 6 years is because I lost motivation to do most things. Testosterone powers that, in men. Without it...

I have great hair though. Nobody believes I ever experienced hair loss. I just smile and say "Propecia works!"

Ultimately both T, estrogen, and DHT all tanked to very low numbers.

I know how you can get things going again. There are ways.

It's cute (pathetic) that the doctor seems so confused and surprised. Incredible that these guys are responsible for managing our health, yet they know less than we do about most things. If it doesn't fit into their tiny little worldview, it simply doesn't exist.

Now you're saying that your testosterone levels are low because you're 42, but in the post you wrote a couple months ago you said your testosterone levels have been that low since you were 27 years old. A third hypothesis for your testosterone levels is the one you gave a couple days ago, that it's a devastating side effect of topical spironolactone:

Or perhaps using a topical antiandrogen for 10 years lowered my androgen levels .... and maintained my hair.

*****************

I wish you the best of luck in resolving the challenges plaguing you. I don't think there's any conspiracy on your part and I have not suggested it nor implied it. I wrote that it looks like you're dealing with uncertainty. You're smart and knowledgeable and if you figure it out I hope to find out about it.

I wasn't sure how I should write this post. Maybe you'll ban me for it. Probably not, it's not your track record. I figured it was best to be as honest and transparent as possible. You are the most prominent spironolactone user on this site, but due to your words and your story I'm not convinced you're the best case study. I think it may be that finasteride permanently lowering your T from 780 to 295 from age 27 onwards may be enough in and of itself to have stopped your hair loss, which is what you suggested in September.

For whatever it's worth, I think this new topical is likely to be of moest benefit and I'm probably going to order one or two vials soon and will be applying a small dose to my hairline.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I've thought more about this topical, and a thought occurred to me just now that I should buy it and throw out my RU.

A major obvious problem with RU is that it's illegal. If a doctor asks me to list my medications, I cannot tell them that I'm taking RU. They won't know what it is. If I give them a one-sentence explanation, it will cloud the discussion of anything else that might be going on. If I go hypothetically due to digestive problems the doctor will tell me "Well, there's this illegal compound which is unresearched ..." or I can lie to my doctor.

Spironolactone is not as well-researched as I'd like to be but at least there's some data on it, and I can just put it down on medical forms when required and move on.

 

[That Guy]

@That Guy

It's extremely easy for people sit in their living rooms, play armchair chemist, and call "BS" on everything.

I've been doing this 17 years and for people to be bitching out topical spironolactone is absolutely astounding to me. Everybody already knows that Finasteride and Minoxidli and Nizoral are the big three. You haven't educated anyone by repeating that tired old mantra.

The simple fact is, that there is another class of treatments that have "Logical Science" backing them. Its my job to give people options outside of finasteride and minoxidil so that they don't go buying Nioxin or one of the other million total scams out there.

To call into question whether the manufacturer is lying to people and sending fake product is offensive. As a troll, you expect others to back up their claims in support of topical spironolactone, but you don't have to back up your claims against it. You can just act skeptical and kill everyone's optimism with one well-placed bit of FUD.

So to be fair, since you have now questioned the validity of the ingredients, you will be required to present scientific evidence backing your claim, just as you expect the same from everyone else. If you are unable to provide evidence from a reputable lab using an assay (and pay for it yourself) then your comment will be removed as nothing more than FUD. Sound fair?

I trust Dr. Lee's judgment. I trust Bryan Shelton's judgment (heavy proponent of topical spironolactone), and I trust the judgment of literally everyone else in the industry.

Admin

So you'd remove these comments, discussing the efficacy of your beloved product, but won't do anything about the legitimate trolls on this site for fear it will cause some sort of "exodus" as I believe you've called it?

Yeah, you're doing a bang-up job of not looking like a censorship-slingin' tyrant, pal.

I've only pointed out the truth here: You are personally not a reliable source for the efficacy of this stuff since you claim to have pre-existing conditions that may or may not be responsible for your stopped hairloss and you are selling the stuff.

That is not how burden of proof works. The fact is, there are scientific studies done that say it does bind to DHT, but there don't appear to be any that state exactly how effective it is in stopping hairloss. Therefore, all we really have are anecdotal claims. The efficacy of topical spironolactone is not clear, yet you champion it as a reliable finasteride alternative superior to other, somewhat science-backed compounds? You're selling the product: The burden of proof lies on you to provide evidence from a lab to quash any fears. Not telling people to buy the product first and test it themselves lol

Yes, how dare I advise people to be cautious ordering products online from China that don't list their ingredients to circumvent potential issues with customs!?

Look, the thesis of my point is that there is no hard data verifying that topical spironolactone and this mixture specifically is highly effective. It is also worth noting that the product is prepared outside of the country its company is based in and they do not list the ingredients. Make of that what you may, but your customers should be aware of these details.

There is no rallying cry against people buying this. This is just you getting pissed off because I'm not jumping up and down about S5 cream and am pointing out the (perhaps inconvenient) realities about the product.

 

[hairblues]

I have been using it in a different form from my Dr office and i have seen a slow down in my shedding--is this proof? no but i think you guys are going way off on this too deeply.

Does it work orally in high doses better?--maybe..but maybe it works differently when its at the source of the scalp as a topical. Jax for example i doubt it will work at all for Androgenetic Alopecia BUT if it works it will be via a topical not oral. Oral only seems to help with AA

IF You have concerns wait for other people to use it, wait a few months and see what the results are.

You picking apart with all this 'logic' with a man who is actually trying to help us and he seems to have a great track record with people who have been on this site for many years.
OF COURSE he's going to be offended its like a slap in the face.

@That Guy I like you, you have really valid things to say on this site so please don't take this wrong way--but comparing banning the two guys--who you were fighting with to this is night and day--i'm not saying you should be banned either but you were not an innocent victim being trolled you get super defensive and insulting when people do not agree with you and you then feel attacked. You and i got it not it the first day i was here and you accused me of trolling you--and it was clear i was only disagreeing with you. You respond and you want the last word. Thats not fair to people on a public forum.

I also do not think he should ban you either --BUT hello-- it's his website he can do what he wants. And even your reply is kind of disrespectful in tone.
fair/unfair does not matter--this is his site.

You keep making implications that sound dubious.

 

[That Guy]

@That Guy I like you, you have really valid things to say on this site so please don't take this wrong way--but comparing banning the two guys--who you were fighting with to this is night and day--i'm not saying you should be banned either but you were not an innocent victim being trolled you get super defensive and insulting when people do not agree with you and you then feel attacked. You and i got it not it the first day i was here and you accused me of trolling you--and it was clear i was only disagreeing with you. You respond and you want the last word. Thats not fair to people on a public forum.

I also do not think he should ban you either --BUT hello-- it's his website he can do what he wants. And even your reply is kind of disrespectful in tone.
fair/unfair does not matter--this is his site.

You keep making implications that sound dubious.

With all due respect, you really don't know the history of this.

FoucaultII was insulting everyone (especially me) who thought positively of Tsuji's treatment since before I joined this forum. I even tried to resolve this amicably with him and I thought it worked, but no. His opinion on things flip flops to whatever gives him a window to outright accuse other people of being stupid simply because they aren't as negative as he is. I never had any conversation whatsoever with Farkhairloss; he simply cheerleaded Foucault suspiciously out of the blue and took whatever opportunity he could to take ad-hominem potshots at me.

So no, I refuse to be "respectful" to those douchebags. Topping it off, we have users in droves coming into this section of the forum to scream "fake" or "X didn't happen in the past" every day and not even trying to contribute anything constructive. Please explain why this behavior shouldn't be grounds for banishment (when it is on every other forum I know of), but pointing out that the efficacy of topical spironolactone is not certain and the company that produces it (and I'm not saying they're a scam) does have some dubious practices, does justify comment removal as the Admin feels?

There is no other way to put this: The Admin is a-okay with people fighting, throwing baseless accusations around, trolling the threads etc...until it's directed at him and his business. The icing on that cake is that I'm not even trying to stir up controversy or claim this is a scam. I'm saying buyer beware and that it's irresponsible to recommend unproven treatments as if they are a sure alternative.

I don't recall the specifics of our conversation, but I do remember it being about saying my experiences with several women who were incredibly rude and selfish toward well-meaning gestures. I attributed this to a rampant attitude in modern feminism. You got angry about that and kept dwelling on petty semantics and creating strawman arguments despite trying to simplify the articulation of my point to the best of my ability. I've never harbored any sort of resentment or anything toward you then or now.

If you're referring to me saying that people who bought from a group buy that many could tell was incredibly dubious and then when it turned out to be a scam, people started making such ridiculous excuses as "they only tested one lotion!" were fools...well, no I won't apologize for that. Just own up to your mistakes; you took a chance and it turned out to be false. There is no shame in just admitting that.

I was personally attacked to no end in one thread simply for saying that I'd prefer not to live to be old and decrepit and that I would be okay with kicking the bucket around middle age. This was just a passing comment I made and was viciously lambasted for it relentlessly. No, I refuse to apologize for defending my own personal beliefs about MY life. I will not be kind about it.

I have, however, apologized to other users whom I've had heated disagreements with, including David_MPN. In the other cases though, I do not feel I am in the wrong.

 

[Nadester]

Why so salty?? I genuinely asked for them out of curiosity since i haven't see them.

You don't owe me anything, but a bit of proper convo isn't too much to ask.

 

[hairblues]

With all due respect, you really don't know the history of this.

FoucaultII was insulting everyone (especially me) who thought positively of Tsuji's treatment since before I joined this forum. I even tried to resolve this amicably with him and I thought it worked, but no. His opinion on things flip flops to whatever gives him a window to outright accuse other people of being stupid simply because they aren't as negative as he is. I never had any conversation whatsoever with Farkhairloss; he simply cheerleaded Foucault suspiciously out of the blue and took whatever opportunity he could to take ad-hominem potshots at me.

So no, I refuse to be "respectful" to those douchebags. Topping it off, we have users in droves coming into this section of the forum to scream "fake" or "X didn't happen in the past" every day and not even trying to contribute anything constructive. Please explain why this behavior shouldn't be grounds for banishment (when it is on every other forum I know of), but pointing out that the efficacy of topical spironolactone is not certain and the company that produces it (and I'm not saying they're a scam) does have some dubious practices, does justify comment removal as the Admin feels?

There is no other way to put this: The Admin is a-okay with people fighting, throwing baseless accusations around, trolling the threads etc...until it's directed at him and his business. The icing on that cake is that I'm not even trying to stir up controversy or claim this is a scam. I'm saying buyer beware and that it's irresponsible to recommend unproven treatments as if they are a sure alternative.

I don't recall the specifics of our conversation, but I do remember it being about saying my experiences with several women who were incredibly rude and selfish toward well-meaning gestures. I attributed this to a rampant attitude in modern feminism. You got angry about that and kept dwelling on petty semantics and creating strawman arguments despite trying to simplify the articulation of my point to the best of my ability. I've never harbored any sort of resentment or anything toward you then or now.

If you're referring to me saying that people who bought from a group buy that many could tell was incredibly dubious and then when it turned out to be a scam, people started making such ridiculous excuses as "they only tested one lotion!" were fools...well, no I won't apologize for that. Just own up to your mistakes; you took a chance and it turned out to be false. There is no shame in just admitting that.

I was personally attacked to no end in one thread simply for saying that I'd prefer not to live to be old and decrepit and that I would be okay with kicking the bucket around middle age. This was just a passing comment I made and was viciously lambasted for it relentlessly. No, I refuse to apologize for defending my own personal beliefs about MY life. I will not be kind about it.

I have, however, apologized to other users whom I've had heated disagreements with, including David_MPN. In the other cases though, I do not feel I am in the wrong.

I was not 'mad' at you, I did not agree with you

It would suck if you got banned over 'this' because you really do have some smart things and facts you add to the forum.

 

[champpy]

I bought both formulations of this and will test it out. Its not expensive so no huge loss if it doesnt work. I will be reporting on what i experience as soon as i get it.

As for everyone bitching about the cream, just chill out. If you dont believe in it, dont use it. Im sure there will be plenty of reports from not only me but other users soon.

I for one have been wanting to try this for awhile but couldnt find it for sale. I thank the admin for making it available

 

[Armando Jose]

Good luck champpy. Please take a before photo

 

[champpy]

Good luck champpy. Please take a before photo

Oh I will man. I'm going to focus on my hairline and temples only even though I'm more of a diffuse thinner. I figured that would be the easiest place to spot any new growth if it happens. I'm really only expecting maintenance at the most though so we'll see

 

[rcom440]

Oh I will man. I'm going to focus on my hairline and temples only even though I'm more of a diffuse thinner. I figured that would be the easiest place to spot any new growth if it happens. I'm really only expecting maintenance at the most though so we'll see

spironolactone won't regrow hair. It will slow down hairloss so there is no point of taking pics before and after unless you are using whole bunch of other stuff including minoxidil and you want to see if minoxidil will get you some extra hair.

 

[Jim lahey]

Pictures are incredibily useful for keeping track of maintenance?

 

[Jameston]

Curious to your results champy!
Are you going to combine s5 with minoxidil? Curious to see the combination?

 

[rcom440]

I've been on spironolactone/minoxidil/nizoral and copper peptides for over 8 years.
My hairloss is pretty slow but I think that combo maintained pretty well.

 

[tjnpdx]

I've been on spironolactone/minoxidil/nizoral and copper peptides for over 8 years.
My hairloss is pretty slow but I think that combo maintained pretty well.[/QUOTE

I'm really only counting on spironolactone for maintenance, but you haven't experienced regrowth with this combo? I was thinking that minoxidil + spironolactone would be pretty effective for regrowth.

EDIT: My comment got lost from this somehow. Have you not seen regrowth with this combo? I was really thinking minoxidil on top of spironolactone would do pretty well. Of course, to each his own (physiology).

 

[champpy]

Curious to your results champy!
Are you going to combine s5 with minoxidil? Curious to see the combination?

Ive been on minoxidil for 4 years and it hasnt helped, but im afraid to stop because i fear a big shed. Im also taking finasteride and dutasteride for over 3 years. So i really dont have any growth stimulant options. Ive tried EVERYTHING, literally everything. spironolactone is just about my last grasp to keep what i have left. I just really want to slow the loss down, thats my goal with this. We will see