Puretech Health - 2017 Annual Report (2018-04-16)

[That Guy]

lol this is so true. I think its kinda a mechanism of defense, people not wanting to be disappointed.

Probably

I said min and wounding not min and finasteride for which there is no proof at all Follicas concept is superior.

Superior? Maybe not, but we can say for sure that it won't be worse since it's the same kind of tech. The good news is: Wounding + minoxidil so far has produced great results.

But Follica is far more controlled, better-researched, and we know there will be more than a single compound, and they intend for it to be a direct competitor to transplants. So the only logical assumption there is that it should wind up being better. Doesn't really make sense to have a more complicated, higher-tech procedure that's only "just as good".

Regardless, my point stands — you and a lot of others on here like to constantly draw contrary, negative conclusions from blatantly obvious, positive results. I don't know why you do this, but it really makes you look retarded to be honest.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

The "information we have" demonstrates results better than minoxidil and finasteride, yet you don't "see" it providing anything but the same results?

I just don't understand how people can have this kind of ignorance that is so prevalent on these forums.

It's like people think the science and the data isn't representative of the technology they're actually working on.

Tsuji and Jahoda use human cells to grow human hair even in other animals > "Yeah! But how do we know it's going to work in humans!?"

Various, unaffiliated studies give credibility to Follica's protocol and show regrowth superior to current treatments > "It'll probably be just like minoxidil, f***!"

Now, that's not to say there hasn't been bullshit before of course, but that almost entirely comes from shitty startups like Histogen running trials in places with dubious standards; if there are standards at all (Bahamas)

But for the most part, this is the equivalent of people denying it was possible to go to space even though all launch tests, etc. proved that while difficult, it could still be done exactly as it was said to be.

....but then, there are people who still think we've never actually been to space, never mind the moon, so I guess it's not that surprising.

When I started here, Hellouser was the poster most hooked up on the research trail, he was fulfilling the same role that you are now. He was constantly shilling Histogen and defending their combovers. That may have left a bad taste in people's mouths.

 

[Kagaho]

When I started here, Hellouser was the poster most hooked up on the research trail, he was fulfilling the same role that you are now. He was constantly shilling Histogen and defending their combovers. That may have left a bad taste in people's mouths.

I know this message isnt for me but Follica and Histogen are different to the very core.

Follica is financially backed by one of the most promising biotech companies, their science (wounding + pharmacologic modulation) is being replicated by 3d party studies, they are relatively close to market

Histogen is a tiny company with no other proof than some very doubtful pictures. They are more like the Brotion by Fidia

 

[replicle88]

The "information we have" demonstrates results better than minoxidil and finasteride, yet you don't "see" it providing anything but the same results?

I just don't understand how people can have this kind of ignorance that is so prevalent on these forums.

It's like people think the science and the data isn't representative of the technology they're actually working on.

Tsuji and Jahoda use human cells to grow human hair even in other animals > "Yeah! But how do we know it's going to work in humans!?"

Various, unaffiliated studies give credibility to Follica's protocol and show regrowth superior to current treatments > "It'll probably be just like minoxidil, f***!"

Now, that's not to say there hasn't been bullshit before of course, but that almost entirely comes from shitty startups like Histogen running trials in places with dubious standards; if there are standards at all (Bahamas)

But for the most part, this is the equivalent of people denying it was possible to go to space even though all launch tests, etc. proved that while difficult, it could still be done exactly as it was said to be.

....but then, there are people who still think we've never actually been to space, never mind the moon, so I guess it's not that surprising.

What do you think the compounds are that Follica is utilizing ? Im assuming if they reformulate current compounds they have to be trialed or is it more expedited considering they are currently FDA approved ?

 

[H]

Okay so I say I think it will be on par with min and wounding and you agree right here we are on the same page totally.

Superior? Maybe not, but we can say for sure that it won't be worse since it's the same kind of tech. The good news is: Wounding + minoxidil so far has produced great results.

But Follica is far more controlled, better-researched, and we know there will be more than a single compound, and they intend for it to be a direct competitor to transplants. So the only logical assumption there is that it should wind up being better. Doesn't really make sense to have a more complicated, higher-tech procedure that's only "just as good".

This is all he said she said and conjecture so it's as logical as my own.

Regardless, my point stands — you and a lot of others on here like to constantly draw contrary, negative conclusions from blatantly obvious, positive results. I don't know why you do this, but it really makes you look retarded to be honest

What point? you were wrong when summarizing my quote I corrected you you agreed with me and now because I do not share your wishful thinking which is what it is. Can you objectively say it will be better than min and wounding for sure it's the only possibility? Of course not just as I cannot say it'll be worse and I haven't. You say I look retarded then only because I do not agree with your perspective which seems a little childish and ignorant wouldn't you say? You can believe whatever the f*** you want I hope it all works great why would I want it to crash and burn lol I'm balding like everyone else. I just don't see being better than min and wounding and that's all if you don't agree which I know you dont lol that's fine time will tell.

 

[That Guy]

Okay so I say I think it will be on par with min and wounding and you agree right here we are on the same page totally.




This is all he said she said and conjecture so it's as logical as my own.



What point? you were wrong when summarizing my quote I corrected you you agreed with me and now because I do not share your wishful thinking which is what it is. Can you objectively say it will be better than min and wounding for sure it's the only possibility? Of course not just as I cannot say it'll be worse and I haven't. You say I look retarded then only because I do not agree with your perspective which seems a little childish and ignorant wouldn't you say? You can believe whatever the f*** you want I hope it all works great why would I want it to crash and burn lol I'm balding like everyone else. I just don't see being better than min and wounding and that's all if you don't agree which I know you dont lol that's fine time will tell.

Sure, I may have misread it, but it actually still holds up:

Like I said, min + wounding has already shown to be more effective than minoxidil and finasteride on their own, yet you can see how this, it being semi-automated (allowing greater control over the wounding itself) and uses more than just minoxidil could be superior?

You don't see it?

I mean sure, maybe it won't be better...but I can certainly "see" the logic in it being a probable outcome.

Let me explain to you something that most people don't understand about opinions: They're not all equal. They actually have to be justified. Otherwise, it's just "wishful thinking". So if you can't see the argument for why this may be better, you have to provide a good explanation why.

This isn't like saying whether we love or hate blueberries or mangoes; it's not nearly that subjective. Some topics require a greater amount of facts in order to soundly pass judgement on them.

So what I was talking about, is how a lot of users here like to use the possibility of some yet-unknown, negative factor regarding something as actually being a negative point. It's not...it's useless information because it's not actually information at all.

You so often see this when it comes to discussions of "Tsuji" and timelines and sh*t. So often, you'll see people say "I don't think it will happen — just don't."

Sorry, but "I feel" isn't solid ground on which to form an opinion about something that will have a very real outcome one way or another. And if your feelings drive an "opinion" that isn't supported by any available info (at best) or is outright contradictory of it (at worst)...well then your opinion isn't worth sh*t.

Maybe you explained somewhere else that I missed; I dunno, don't care it...it's been a long day. But either way, this is a good opportunity to get that off my chest. =P

 

[H]

Sure, I may have misread it, but it actually still holds up:

Like I said, min + wounding has already shown to be more effective than minoxidil and finasteride on their own, yet you can see how this, it being semi-automated (allowing greater control over the wounding itself) and uses more than just minoxidil could be superior?

You don't see it?

I mean sure, maybe it won't be better...but I can certainly "see" the logic in it being a probable outcome.

Let me explain to you something that most people don't understand about opinions: They're not all equal. They actually have to be justified. Otherwise, it's just "wishful thinking". So if you can't see the argument for why this may be better, you have to provide a good explanation why.

This isn't like saying whether we love or hate blueberries or mangoes; it's not nearly that subjective. Some topics require a greater amount of facts in order to soundly pass judgement on them.

So what I was talking about, is how a lot of users here like to use the possibility of some yet-unknown, negative factor regarding something as actually being a negative point. It's not...it's useless information because it's not actually information at all.

You so often see this when it comes to discussions of "Tsuji" and timelines and sh*t. So often, you'll see people say "I don't think it will happen — just don't."

Sorry, but "I feel" isn't solid ground on which to form an opinion about something that will have a very real outcome one way or another. And if your feelings drive an "opinion" that isn't supported by any available info (at best) or is outright contradictory of it (at worst)...well then your opinion isn't worth sh*t.

Maybe you explained somewhere else that I missed; I dunno, don't care it...it's been a long day. But either way, this is a good opportunity to get that off my chest. =P

If I bet on a horse race and say well I bet horse 2 will win he's got the fancier shoes and his owner says he will win why dont they just pay me up front? When I express my doubts of Follica surpassing min and wounding that's not me saying that people who think it will be greater are wrong or not looking at it the "right" way it's totally possible they've said they are making new compounds i know that. Those compounds could be a breakthrough do any of us know that is going to be outcome no we do not for sure so it is speculation either way.

When people utter variances implying "well it's puretech they are a company not some snake oil so it has to go right" as if the universe impedes subpar results for them or that because of some totally unrelated detail they are this noble group who are in this purely to help people so they wouldn't puff up anything as a marketing strategy no way it really shocks me. Can anyone as a consumer vouch for any of Puretechs products? I don't believe so because they don't have any out so the integrity of the company is still in the air from a consumer's perspective.

Now when I look at this from a business perspective I see Cots and Puretech really wanting to help everyone out and wanting to make the best product and amplifying the effects of wounding making it the best they possibly can for the best price for consumers and make some money everyone's needs are met. I can also see a different perspective though that may be totally wrong or right i have no proof but we are just talking about possibilities anyway so here goes. Wind back Cots and friends have been looking for a cure for many years publishing papers here and there trying to find a breakthrough to no avail. They know that average Joe has been using dermarolling and min, regular already sold consumer products, with pretty comparatively excellent results. They also know nobody has actually patented this technique and sold it. The businessman in me personally would see a low hanging fruit undisturbed waiting to be plucked and capitalized on. This happens all the time especially in the beginnings of civilization I would think. If I see tons of people around me using some string to tie a rock and stick together to break coconuts you can bet your *** I'll be out there with a stand full of stick rock let's call them..."hammers" yes hammers. This will appeal first to the people who know nothing of hammers or never thought of them but won't to people who already know how to make their own. So I paint the rock and say my paint makes the hammers more durable now the people who made their own start to rethink some of the hammers might last longer for reasons totally unrelated or related i was blowing smoke to the paint but what do I care I made bank. Business is business even in biotech companies they say they have the next big thing that's the best all of them. Can everyone be #1 though?

This isn't to persuade you into my opinion duh I could totally be wrong I know that. I don't care to change your opinion you don't have to agree with me I'm just showing a different perspective that maybe you can understand but not necessarily get behind. Do you understand?

 

[Johnt1997]

If I bet on a horse race and say well I bet horse 2 will win he's got the fancier shoes and his owner says he will win why dont they just pay me up front? When I express my doubts of Follica surpassing min and wounding that's not me saying that people who think it will be greater are wrong or not looking at it the "right" way it's totally possible they've said they are making new compounds i know that. Those compounds could be a breakthrough do any of us know that is going to be outcome no we do not for sure so it is speculation either way.

When people utter variances implying "well it's puretech they are a company not some snake oil so it has to go right" as if the universe impedes subpar results for them or that because of some totally unrelated detail they are this noble group who are in this purely to help people so they wouldn't puff up anything as a marketing strategy no way it really shocks me. Can anyone as a consumer vouch for any of Puretechs products? I don't believe so because they don't have any out so the integrity of the company is still in the air from a consumer's perspective.

Now when I look at this from a business perspective I see Cots and Puretech really wanting to help everyone out and wanting to make the best product and amplifying the effects of wounding making it the best they possibly can for the best price for consumers and make some money everyone's needs are met. I can also see a different perspective though that may be totally wrong or right i have no proof but we are just talking about possibilities anyway so here goes. Wind back Cots and friends have been looking for a cure for many years publishing papers here and there trying to find a breakthrough to no avail. They know that average Joe has been using dermarolling and min, regular already sold consumer products, with pretty comparatively excellent results. They also know nobody has actually patented this technique and sold it. The businessman in me personally would see a low hanging fruit undisturbed waiting to be plucked and capitalized on. This happens all the time especially in the beginnings of civilization I would think. If I see tons of people around me using some string to tie a rock and stick together to break coconuts you can bet your *** I'll be out there with a stand full of stick rock let's call them..."hammers" yes hammers. This will appeal first to the people who know nothing of hammers or never thought of them but won't to people who already know how to make their own. So I paint the rock and say my paint makes the hammers more durable now the people who made their own start to rethink some of the hammers might last longer for reasons totally unrelated or related i was blowing smoke to the paint but what do I care I made bank. Business is business even in biotech companies they say they have the next big thing that's the best all of them. Can everyone be #1 though?

This isn't to persuade you into my opinion duh I could totally be wrong I know that. I don't care to change your opinion you don't have to agree with me I'm just showing a different perspective that maybe you can understand but not necessarily get behind. Do you understand?

I'm an optimist but i respect people who can flesh out their opinions, regardless of whether i agree with them or not

 

[That Guy]

If I bet on a horse race and say well I bet horse 2 will win he's got the fancier shoes and his owner says he will win why dont they just pay me up front?

No, because those aren't the traits that one should go by when betting on a horse, and that's not how I see most people betting on Follica.

Now when I look at this from a business perspective I see Cots and Puretech really wanting to help everyone out and wanting to make the best product and amplifying the effects of wounding making it the best they possibly can for the best price for consumers and make some money everyone's needs are met. I can also see a different perspective though that may be totally wrong or right i have no proof but we are just talking about possibilities anyway so here goes. Wind back Cots and friends have been looking for a cure for many years publishing papers here and there trying to find a breakthrough to no avail. They know that average Joe has been using dermarolling and min, regular already sold consumer products, with pretty comparatively excellent results. They also know nobody has actually patented this technique and sold it. The businessman in me personally would see a low hanging fruit undisturbed waiting to be plucked and capitalized on. This happens all the time especially in the beginnings of civilization I would think. If I see tons of people around me using some string to tie a rock and stick together to break coconuts you can bet your *** I'll be out there with a stand full of stick rock let's call them..."hammers" yes hammers. This will appeal first to the people who know nothing of hammers or never thought of them but won't to people who already know how to make their own. So I paint the rock and say my paint makes the hammers more durable now the people who made their own start to rethink some of the hammers might last longer for reasons totally unrelated or related i was blowing smoke to the paint but what do I care I made bank. Business is business even in biotech companies they say they have the next big thing that's the best all of them. Can everyone be #1 though?

and all of that is certainly a good point, but it once again brings me back around to what I'm getting at:

Your first sentence states you can see them really wanting to make this the best they can. Which, there are a number of good reasons to believe: They amount of time that's gone into it, the better tech, the use of multiple compounds, the researchers on board, the funding etc.

The rest of your post assumes that there could be some ulterior motive and just going for "low-hanging fruit", but again you justify this based on your feelings of business and something that has historically happened in business.

but that's it. There's nothing concrete that suggests this is the case in this particular instance, unless you have something?

The "maybe" outcomes that (presently) have little to no evidence supporting them cannot be treated as if they are equally likely outcomes to the ones that do, and a lot of people around here should understand that.

 

[itsAlright]

Any chance Follica can give me chest hair?

 

[Murkey Thumb]

Any chance Follica can give me chest hair?

Only if you are a girl!

 

[HairOnFire]

Three studies in the past two years (PMID: 29468283, PMID: 29200764, PMID: 28508243) have shown that LLLT (low-level laser therapy), of which there are several existing products tailored to hair growth (combs, helmets, etc.) upregulates the WNT/β-catenin pathway - the very pathway that is crucial to wound-induced hair follicle neogenesis.

Follica, if they wanted to, could forego the pharmaceutical component of their product. It would then be wounding + LLLT. In fact, since LLLT devices are composed of cheap hardware (but often sold at absurdly high prices for a finished product), Follica could design their own LLLT device to couple with their wounding protocol. The devices themselves could be a nice source of profit for them. Best of all, since no drugs are involved, this may give them an easier path through the FDA.

While we are at it, Follica should also look into valproic acid as a drug to enhance their protocol. Valproic acid has been on the market for decades (for epilepsy, migraines, bipolar disorder, etc.), with a ton of safety data collected along the way (meaning, it's a well-known, well-studied drug that's already been approved for human use). Valproic acid is a potent inducer of the WNT/β-catenin pathway, and it is already been shown to stimulate hair growth when used topically. Even more promising, topical valproic acid plus microneedling promotes even more hair growth than topical valproic acid alone (PMID: 29554482).

Even if Follica ignores LLLT and valproic acid, there is nothing stopping us from using them to enhance Follica's results. Valproic acid is cheap and widely available. LLLT devices are also widely available, though sometimes pricey.

 

[That Guy]

Even if Follica ignores LLLT and valproic acid, there is nothing stopping us from using them to enhance Follica's results.

I think that you're making a lot of well-informed, but also very optimistic assumptions about combination therapy.

If the research into wounding neogenesis has demonstrated anything about its ability to produce hair: it's that there are definitely some pretty specific parameters that, if not executed quite precisely, are the difference between considerable regrowth or nothing at all. I mean, their device even tells you, down the percent, how well you're following the plan and gives you sh*t if you're falling off the wagon.

If Follica's protocol doesn't (yet) including these other compounds, which I doubt it will, you cannot be certain that your timing of application will be correct, that there will be no interaction that negates any potential gains, etc. There are just too many unknown variables for it to be worth the cost and any unforseen risks, IMO

But then, I haven't lost a tremendous amount of hair and so I'm not really needing to "boost" results beyond anything like the Dhurat study and stuff — still, when it comes out, I plan to just follow their established protocol like religion.

 

[DanielDüsentrieb]

"The Follica RAIN pivotal study is expected to commence following the completion of an ongoing optimisation study."

Did Follica made an anouncment when they estimate to end the optimisation study?
And is it suspicius that they make an optimisation study between phase 2 and 3?
I mean if the phase 2 results were good there would be no need for another optimisation. And if the phase 2 results aren t good they would normaly start a phase 2 b trial.

 

[what]

No, it's not suspicious to run an optimization study. At this point, it only makes good sense (financially and from timeline perspective) to get the protocol as optimized as possible before engaging in an extremely expensive phase 3. Even if they achieved good results in their phase 2, why not run a small trial to see if they can squeeze more efficacy out of it?

 

[hanginginthewire]

The conditions weren’t right!

Guys, it’s over...

 

[Noisette]

Hi guys

Do you know that Puretech Health will be Present at The Jefferies 2018 Global Healthcare Conference, this Wednesday (Tomorrow) 9:30AM EDT.
June 6, at 9:30AM EDT

Source: https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...alth-Present-Jefferies-2018-Global-Healthcare

Last year we have seen their previous timeline for Follica's products.
The Jefferies 2017

Source: (PDF) https://www.iex.nl/Forum/Upload/2017/9806841.pdf

And here, we have also the puretech Health's presentation at the Jefferies 2015

Source: http://www.jefferies.com/CMSFiles/J...ces/111815/Presentations/Pure Tech Health.pdf

So this year, maybe, we would have an another timeline for Follica ? and new informations about them

 

[Agent]

Hi guys

Do you know that Puretech Health will be Present at The Jefferies 2018 Global Healthcare Conference, this Wednesday (Tomorrow) 9:30AM EDT.
June 6, at 9:30AM EDT

Source: https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...alth-Present-Jefferies-2018-Global-Healthcare

Last year we have seen their previous timeline for Follica's products.
The Jefferies 2017
View attachment 90070
Source: (PDF) https://www.iex.nl/Forum/Upload/2017/9806841.pdf

And here, we have also the puretech Health's presentation at the Jefferies 2015
View attachment 90071
Source: http://www.jefferies.com/CMSFiles/Jefferies.com/files/Conferences/111815/Presentations/Pure Tech Health.pdf

So this year, maybe, we would have an another timeline for Follica ? and new informations about them

Thanks @Noisette !!! Highly appreciated!!

 

[itsAlright]

Hi guys

Do you know that Puretech Health will be Present at The Jefferies 2018 Global Healthcare Conference, this Wednesday (Tomorrow) 9:30AM EDT.
June 6, at 9:30AM EDT

Source: https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...alth-Present-Jefferies-2018-Global-Healthcare

Last year we have seen their previous timeline for Follica's products.
The Jefferies 2017
View attachment 90070
Source: (PDF) https://www.iex.nl/Forum/Upload/2017/9806841.pdf

And here, we have also the puretech Health's presentation at the Jefferies 2015
View attachment 90071
Source: http://www.jefferies.com/CMSFiles/Jefferies.com/files/Conferences/111815/Presentations/Pure Tech Health.pdf

So this year, maybe, we would have an another timeline for Follica ? and new informations about them

Something is so pleasing about the way you phrase things, "... new informations...". Maybe I just associate it with your tendency to avoid the vitriol on this site and to stick to presenting good news.

Thanks for everything!

 

[champpy]

Wow that slide from 2015 shows massive regrowth. My God, what if thats what they can really do?!?!