Puretech Health - 2017 Annual Report (2018-04-16)

[DanielDüsentrieb]

According to their latest patent (yes )
and I think they are spending more than a decade in trials, studies, researches to test some compounds, not just a minoxidil on steroids

In this one we can read that : Needling device and Drug applicator (At-Home device)

Source: https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2017054009A1/en?oq=WO2017054009A1



[000286] In some embodiments, the hair growth-promoting agent treatment comprises treatment with one or more prostaglandin F2a analogs, prostaglandin analogs, or prostaglandins. Non-limiting examples of prostaglandin F2a analogs include bimatoprost

[000285] In some embodiments, the hair growth-promoting agent treatment comprises treatment with one or more antiandrogens, such as, e.g., finasteride (e.g., marketed as Propecia or Proscar), ketoconazole, fluconazole, spironolactone, flutamide, diazoxide, 17-alpha- hydroxyprogesterone, 11-alpha-hydroxyprogesterone, ketoconazole, RU58841, dutasteride (marketed as Avodart), fluridil, or QLT-7704, an antiandrogen oligonucleotide, or others described in Poulos & Mirmirani, 2005, Expert Opin. Investig. Drugs 14: 177-184, the contents of which is incorporated herein by reference.

[000291] In some embodiments, the hair growth-promoting agent treatment comprises treatment with a compound that mobilizes bone marrow-derived stem cells (e.g., growth factors such as G-CSF and/or chemical agents such as plerixafor (Mozobil®));

[000293] In some embodiments, the hair growth-promoting agent treatment comprises treatment with one or more agents that induce an immune response or cause inflammation, such as, e.g., tetanus toxoid, topical non-specific irritants (anthralin), or sensitizers (squaric acid dibutyl ester [SADBE] and diphenyl cyclopropenone [DPCP])

000296] In certain embodiments, a hair growth-promoting agent described herein may be used at a dosage or in a range of dosages known in the art for that agent (e.g., as made available on a package insert or in the Physicians' Desk Reference). In other embodiments the regular dosage of the hair growth-promoting agent is adjusted to optimize a combination treatment (e.g., integumental perturbation or treatment with another active ingredient) described herein. For example, the regular dosage may be increased or decreased as directed by the physician. For example, a lower dosage may be used over a shorter duration owing to the synergistic effect of combination with another treatment described herein.

And the topical drugs are allready approved by the FDA?

I m still confused that they need a phase 3 trial just for a needeling device.

 

[pinotq]

And the topical drugs are allready approved by the FDA?

I m still confused that they need a phase 3 trial just for a needeling device.

I am no expert but a) this is a device plus a compound(s); and b) even if it is a device that doesn't do much more than existing similar types of devices, just more specialized for a particular purpose, and even if they are using compounds that are FDA approved for other purposes, I think they want FDA approval that this treatment (device + compound(s)) is proven to grow hair and can therefore be prescribed for that specific purpose. In other words, even if safety were not an issue, they still need a stamp of approval for efficacy, if they are going to roll this out as a legitimate treatment prescribed thru dermatologists across the country.

 

[hanginginthewire]

I don’t know how people can have so much confidence in Follica when it’s not at all clear what the treatment really consists of.

 

[Falsenine]

I don’t know how people can have so much confidence in Follica when it’s not at all clear what the treatment really consists of.

Bro, seriously I understand that you’re frustrated, we’re all are.
But you gotta stop crying over EVERY SINGLE TREATMENT, nothing impresses you, everything is a scam to you.
This is a section for new studies and research so we can keep track of upcoming treatments and trials.
I study medicine and everyone who is involved knows how long a drug can take to reach a market, it’s a painfully long process but there’s a reason for it.
If you want to know what happens when a drug is poorly trialed and released too quickly, just google the thalidomide scandal and it’s horrific consquences.
This is how it is for every single drug, actually cancer patients try their best to get accepted into a treatment trial so that they can prolong their life and sometimes they get rejected.
There are plenty of potential drug candidates out there but most of them are discontinued mid trials because they have an unfavorable toxicity profile, very few drugs actually make it into phase 3
So I’m sorry but if follica enters phase 3, this is a HUGE step forward regardless of what you think.
sh*t, it took 10 years for the FDA to approve Ivabradine which was already approved in europe.
It might seem like a long wait for us but this is how it is. It has nothing to do with follica being effective or not
And btw it’s very expensive to bring a drug to the market and gain FDA approval so the simple fact that they’re continuing with it should tell you about it’s effectivness.

 

[MrV88]

I don’t know how people can have so much confidence in Follica when it’s not at all clear what the treatment really consists of.

BROTZUUUUUUUUU!!!!

 

[hanginginthewire]

Bro, seriously I understand that you’re frustrated, we’re all are.
But you gotta stop crying over EVERY SINGLE TREATMENT, nothing impresses you, everything is a scam to you.
This is a section for new studies and research so we can keep track of upcoming treatments and trials.
I study medicine and everyone who is involved knows how long a drug can take to reach a market, it’s a painfully long process but there’s a reason for it.
If you want to know what happens when a drug is poorly trialed and released too quickly, just google the thalidomide scandal and it’s horrific consquences.
This is how it is for every single drug, actually cancer patients try their best to get accepted into a treatment trial so that they can prolong their life and sometimes they get rejected.
There are plenty of potential drug candidates out there but most of them are discontinued mid trials because they have an unfavorable toxicity profile, very few drugs actually make it into phase 3
So I’m sorry but if follica enters phase 3, this is a HUGE step forward regardless of what you think.
sh*t, it took 10 years for the FDA to approve Ivabradine which was already approved in europe.
It might seem like a long wait for us but this is how it is. It has nothing to do with follica being effective or not
And btw it’s very expensive to bring a drug to the market and gain FDA approval so the simple fact that they’re continuing with it should tell you about it’s effectivness.

Thanks for your post, I am frustrated.

Nonetheless, I don’t agree with the reading-the-tea-leaves nature of so much of what gets posted here.

They’re spending so much money...

They’ve put in so much time...

He wouldn’t risk his reputation...

Etc., etc....

I hope like hell that it works but I can’t help but remain suspicious. Scams are rife in every industry and including the medical one. Just because Follica appears to be following a process and isn’t soliciting people on the street corner doesn’t mean that they aren’t motivated by greed or aren’t deceptive. Is there a propreitary reason for their secrecy? Cause otherwise it just appears to be a shell game to keep investors guessing and interested and coughing up $$$$.

 

[BalderBaldyBald]

Thanks for your post, I am frustrated.

Nonetheless, I don’t agree with the reading-the-tea-leaves nature of so much of what gets posted here.

They’re spending so much money...

They’ve put in so much time...

He wouldn’t risk his reputation...

Etc., etc....

I hope like hell that it works but I can’t help but remain suspicious. Scams are rife in every industry and including the medical one. Just because Follica appears to be following a process and isn’t soliciting people on the street corner doesn’t mean that they aren’t motivated by greed or aren’t deceptive. Is there a propreitary reason for their secrecy? Cause otherwise it just appears to be a shell game to keep investors guessing and interested and coughing up $$$$.

Cotsaleris already spent nearly 20 years on this...hell of a long scam, i don't think investors are his main motivation

 

[hanginginthewire]

Cotsaleris already spent nearly 20 years on this...hell of a long scam, i don't think investors are his main motivation

I don’t think I’ve used the word “scam” and if I did, I shouldn’t have. I said greedy, deceptive, shell game. Shell games are de riguer in corporate America. Plenty of entrepreneurial people have their fingers in many pots and just because they hold degrees or are respected for this or that doesn’t mean that when all is said and done they aren’t on the take.

But I’ve made my point. I just find it troubling when everyone is wildly speculating what the treatment even consists of - and the best guess is “minoxidil on steroids” (yawn) - and that’s what took a decade to develop, lol. Oh, and an app! And some dubious “device.” It doesn’t inspire confidence.

 

[That Guy]

I just find it troubling when everyone is wildly speculating what the treatment even consists of

You really need to learn the difference between "educated guess" and "wild speculation."

The former is what is happening here, where Noisette has shared patents that gives us clues to make a reasonable prediction. The latter is just throwing stuff out there with absolutely nothing remotely concrete supporting it, which is actually what you do on a regular basis.

Oh, and an app! And some dubious “device.” It doesn’t inspire confidence.

Nothing inspires confidence in you.

Further, your sarcastic "criticisms" like this are baseless. There is nothing wrong with an app that tracks progress, schedules, and makes sure you're following the protocol correctly. You may as well b**ch about people using calendars.

There is nothing dubious going on here. You twist details to suit your own negative conjecture.

You can insist that it's not the case all you want, but your repeated actions on these forums suggest that hairloss is a crutch for you.

 

[hanginginthewire]

You can insist that it's not the case all you want, but your repeated actions on these forums suggest that hairloss is a crutch for you.

Says the guy who would never wildly speculate. Hair loss is a deathblow to my self esteem, it’s no kind of crutch.

I can understand that I may tend towards a pessimistic view. All I know is, I, like many others, am desperate to end the nightmare of hair loss. Like, if you really believe what you espouse, I would think you’d be contacting the media, stopping balding men in the streets, starting a blog. Anything to get the good news out. Let the joyous news be spread, male pattern baldness at last is dead.

Hypothetical for you: would you advise your brother or son or father to proceed with a transplant, because you ~know~ that game changing treatments are forthcoming, and that they will rescue him if he runs out of donor? Yes or no? Why or why not? It’s easy to type some positive words on a forum and then disavow them as needed. Remember when you wrote the Brotzu FAQ? How’d that work out, buddy?

We all know the turmoil that hair loss can bring, and I’ve said before - it’s hardly just me who remains skeptical. I guess I’m just despondent enough and have the resulting free time to articulate it on here.

In the case of Follica, you know, what is the hold up? I admire the Tsuji team because thus far there’s a very clear progression, and a very clear communication of what the next hurdle is. Inductivity problem. Clinical trial in humans. Whatever. Follica is wandering in the wilderness doing the kitchen sink approach. Costeralis himself as been all over the place with his timelines and expectations.

Anyway, please don’t tell me my hair loss is a crutch when there’s not a damn thing I can do about it that gives cosmetically acceptable results. Not now, not in the foreseeable future.

 

[That Guy]

Says the guy who would never wildly speculate.

I back up literally every opinion or guess I give on this site.

Hypothetical for you: would you advise your brother or son or father to proceed with a transplant, because you ~know~ that game changing treatments are forthcoming, and that they will rescue him if he runs out of donor? Yes or no?

I've advocated on this forum, a thousand f*****g times, for people to take finasteride, minoxidil, and do whatever else that actually works.

You know this, because you've "rrrRREEEED" at me about it before. I also advocated for it plenty in...

the Brotzu FAQ?

How’d that work out, buddy?

Fantastic, actually. At one time I'd compiled all info there was on that sh*t so that people didn't have to kill brain cells reading all the drivel in that thread and get just the facts.

Which is, you know...the point of an FAQ.

In the case of Follica, you know, what is the hold up?

How man god damned times does it need to be explained to you before it finally breaches your skull as to why this sh*t takes a long time?

Costeralis himself as been all over the place with his timelines and expectations.

No he hasn't and it's not like he IS Follica or PureTech. He's speculated about when a technology for curing hairloss MIGHT be available. They have never thrown out concrete timelines that keep getting "Oops, sorry! It's delayed again!" This only is happening in your imagination.

Anyway, please don’t tell me my hair loss is a crutch

Here's some "wild speculation" for you:

I think it is a crutch. I think it bothers you so much and has cost you socially, that it gives you a scapegoat to blame other failures in your life on and you like it because you think it absolves you of responsibility. I think if you didn't have hairloss, you'd find something else about yourself to complain about.

I understand that hairloss is damaging to self-esteem, but you really need to grow the f*** up. Fred went bald at like 20, he was like NW5. That's such an extreme scenario that only a handful of members have actually experienced it, but guess what? You never saw Fred, and you don't see Roberto, or ANYONE for that matter, being as much of a whiny b**ch as you.

 

[champpy]

@Noisette
I swear I remember somewhere in a follica patent that they had mentioned using it setipiprant....
And I totally nuts or do you remember seeing the somewhere to?

 

[BalderBaldyBald]

@Noisette
I swear I remember somewhere in a follica patent that they had mentioned using it setipiprant....
And I totally nuts or do you remember seeing the somewhere to?

That's right Champpy they did test their own CRTh2 receptor antagonist, but it wasn't setipiprant

 

[hanginginthewire]

I back up literally every opinion or guess I give on this site.



I've advocated on this forum, a thousand f*****g times, for people to take finasteride, minoxidil, and do whatever else that actually works.

You know this, because you've "rrrRREEEED" at me about it before. I also advocated for it plenty in...





Fantastic, actually. At one time I'd compiled all info there was on that sh*t so that people didn't have to kill brain cells reading all the drivel in that thread and get just the facts.

Which is, you know...the point of an FAQ.



How man god damned times does it need to be explained to you before it finally breaches your skull as to why this sh*t takes a long time?



No he hasn't and it's not like he IS Follica or PureTech. He's speculated about when a technology for curing hairloss MIGHT be available. They have never thrown out concrete timelines that keep getting "Oops, sorry! It's delayed again!" This only is happening in your imagination.



Here's some "wild speculation" for you:

I think it is a crutch. I think it bothers you so much and has cost you socially, that it gives you a scapegoat to blame other failures in your life on and you like it because you think it absolves you of responsibility. I think if you didn't have hairloss, you'd find something else about yourself to complain about.

I understand that hairloss is damaging to self-esteem, but you really need to grow the f*** up. Fred went bald at like 20, he was like NW5. That's such an extreme scenario that only a handful of members have actually experienced it, but guess what? You never saw Fred, and you don't see Roberto, or ANYONE for that matter, being as much of a whiny b**ch as you.

Haha way to dodge all my questions. Advising someone to take minoxidil and finasteride, two harmless and 99.9 % reversible treatments, one of which is OTC, wow you bold truth teller. I asked you if you have enough faith in alleged upcoming treatments to advise someone to go ahead and transplant, because the treatments will be there if they run out of donor. The fact that you dodged this is telling though.

Also there’s not really any purpose served in compiling a FAQ for an utterly ridiculous and implausible “Italian lotion” that has farcical scam written all over it. Why don’t you pat yourself on the back for compiling a FAQ for the Flat Earth Society as well? You have to have a little humility and acknowledge that you were WRONG and that you gave more credence to Brotzu then you should have. That’s a part of growing up too, my cocky millennial friend.

I don’t want to get in to other user’s histories, particularly when they can’t speak for themselves, but I’ve never been in a mental health facility for my hair loss, or any other reason. Not casting aspersions on anyone who has though. I understand the burden of hair loss and I sympathize with the members here who have and are struggling. It can be a place to vent, I get that. I’ve never really shared much about myself personally on here, (and again, much respect to those users who have been so open and forthcoming), so your call out about my “failures” is more speculation on your part.

At any rate, as the days, months, and years tick by and we bicker, you’ll notice that we don’t have any new treatments and are in essentially the same position as a user from 2005, say. Or 1990, minus the devolpmemt of FUE. In 2005, some of these same entrepreneurs were hyping in their various schemes and leading desperate hair loss sufferers down the primrose path. Like I said, it’s incredibly easy to type a bunch of useless FAQs or “facts” about upcoming treatments and shout down skeptics when there’s nothing on the line for you. Are you financially invested in Follica? Why or why not? You’re constantly telling us how you’ve halted your (extremely minimal) loss and so it doesn’t seem that you have much skin in the game one way or another with regard to future treatments. Perhaps if you did you would better understand the frustrations of people who are actually dealing with visible or aggressive loss. Food for thought.

That's a point I wouldn't ridicule too much. If done right this might have potential. Imagine 10.000 subjects diligently using this device and providing feedback (indirectly via the app) in some way. The amount of data this creates would be enormous - maybe to fine-tune dosage or test frequency etc.

I just wanted to add this and put things into perspective.

Perhaps. To me, it just smacks of gimmick. It’s hard to say because they’re so tight lipped about everything else. To me it sounds like having an app to remind you to put Minoxidil on your head twice a day. Pointless bell and whistle.

 

[tomJ]

I'm so excited for follicas minoxidil penetrating enhancing device. I mean I just can not wait for the heart palpitations and bloated face....no thanks, I'll stick with a healthier face and bald then cardio irregularities and weathered face.

 

[DanielDüsentrieb]

I'm so excited for follicas minoxidil penetrating enhancing device. I mean I just can not wait for the heart palpitations and bloated face....no thanks, I'll stick with a healthier face and bald then cardio irregularities and weathered face.

I hope they are more advanced than that.

Hopefully they release some data which proves you wrong. But your point is kind of valid ... I also don t want to be the beta tester

 

[thomps1523]

Haha way to dodge all my questions. Advising someone to take minoxidil and finasteride, two harmless and 99.9 % reversible treatments, one of which is OTC, wow you bold truth teller. I asked you if you have enough faith in alleged upcoming treatments to advise someone to go ahead and transplant, because the treatments will be there if they run out of donor. The fact that you dodged this is telling though.

Also there’s not really any purpose served in compiling a FAQ for an utterly ridiculous and implausible “Italian lotion” that has farcical scam written all over it. Why don’t you pat yourself on the back for compiling a FAQ for the Flat Earth Society as well? You have to have a little humility and acknowledge that you were WRONG and that you gave more credence to Brotzu then you should have. That’s a part of growing up too, my cocky millennial friend.

I don’t want to get in to other user’s histories, particularly when they can’t speak for themselves, but I’ve never been in a mental health facility for my hair loss, or any other reason. Not casting aspersions on anyone who has though. I understand the burden of hair loss and I sympathize with the members here who have and are struggling. It can be a place to vent, I get that. I’ve never really shared much about myself personally on here, (and again, much respect to those users who have been so open and forthcoming), so your call out about my “failures” is more speculation on your part.

At any rate, as the days, months, and years tick by and we bicker, you’ll notice that we don’t have any new treatments and are in essentially the same position as a user from 2005, say. Or 1990, minus the devolpmemt of FUE. In 2005, some of these same entrepreneurs were hyping in their various schemes and leading desperate hair loss sufferers down the primrose path. Like I said, it’s incredibly easy to type a bunch of useless FAQs or “facts” about upcoming treatments and shout down skeptics when there’s nothing on the line for you. Are you financially invested in Follica? Why or why not? You’re constantly telling us how you’ve halted your (extremely minimal) loss and so it doesn’t seem that you have much skin in the game one way or another with regard to future treatments. Perhaps if you did you would better understand the frustrations of people who are actually dealing with visible or aggressive loss. Food for thought.



Perhaps. To me, it just smacks of gimmick. It’s hard to say because they’re so tight lipped about everything else. To me it sounds like having an app to remind you to put Minoxidil on your head twice a day. Pointless bell and whistle.

I am a user from 2007, and to attempt to compare what is developing now to then is laughable. I get your gripes with development, but we are in nowhere near the same situation as we were then. If we have a hard time taking these companies seriously anymore, do you think investors don’t feel the same doubt before getting involved with another company’s attempt? Science is improving astronomically, and you have to have the patience for it to get there safely and effectively.

 

[NewUser]

I'm so excited for follicas minoxidil penetrating enhancing device. I mean I just can not wait for the heart palpitations and bloated face....no thanks, I'll stick with a healthier face and bald then cardio irregularities and weathered face.

Follica intends to use more drugs than just minoxidil in their protocol. Follica may only release a thoroughly researched laser ablation-minoxidil treatment within the year or early next, but I imagine most of us will jump at the chance to get up to four times better results than using minoxidil alone. And, Follica's patent suggests the possible addition of several of the dozens of existing and possibly new hair loss drugs to be included in the protocol in the near to mid term. Like the other posters have said, we have no choice but to be patient. Regulations governing scientific and medical research exist for a myriad of good reasons. Notice that we tend not to read about researchers using untested drugs on human beings that produce deadly lesions/tumors in 100% of their clinical patients. They have to make sure that two things are true: 1. that it's safe and 2. that it works. Takes time. Everyone agrees that the research end of things is more advanced than it was 15 or 20 years ago, so already a boatload of time has passed since then, and a small but growing number of researchers have learned a lot about hair growth and inhibition. We're on the plus side of the year 2000 and at least not going backwards. Cheer up folks.

 

[fuDHTck]

If Follica is doing a Phase III for something then that thing will never be out in 2018, 2019 and possibly 2020. It's just impossible. You need roughly 1 year for Phase III and one year for FDA approval.

If they are planning to release something without the need of Phase III then it might get released earlier.

 

[ALightInTheDark]

Shieet it's 2018 and people still makes jokes bout Follica "minoxidil + needling" ?
I swear I will laugh when they will release their product and see all them trolls flips and turn around